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Old 09-02-2005, 06:25 PM   #1
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Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Hi,

I saw my urologist today and he's booked me in for lithotripsy for the end of October, to try and move and break up several embedded 4mm diameter stones in my right kidley.
This may sound like a dumb question to ask, but I honestly don't know and didn't think to ask the urologist at the time, but is this done under a general anaesthetic??

I know I did ask if it would be painful afterwards and he said no, but that some get "mild discomfort" after. But having just read a few posts here, seems it's a lil bit more painful than he's letting on.
If the lithotripsy doesn't work, he's speaking of REMOVING the top third of the kidney, where this cluster of stones are embedded in the soft tissue of the kidney!!!! Sounded a bit drastic to me, but he said they do need to get rid of the embedded ones and if the lithotripsy doesn't "shake 'em up", I might have to have that done.

Another thing... he wants me to have some kind of Bladder Dynamics Test, or something. He said they insert a catheter into the bladder for maybe 2 hours and they test the functioning of the bladder, to see if it's working as it should. Anyone else had this done? Does it hurt?

Ohhhh... one last thing.. I've had a couple of people tell me that there's this old fashioned remedy for getting rid of stones, which is to drink a certain amount of olive oil, then a substantial amount of apple juice. Apparently, the apple juice is supposed to soften the stones, whilst the olive oil helps them to pass through the urinary tract naturally.
Anyone heard of this before? Or even tried it??
Personally, I don't think I could stomach the olive oil! lol

So does anyone reading this have any experience of any of these issues, or know much about them?
Thanks for reading.

 
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:02 PM   #2
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Hi Charlatan,

Read my post titled newbie---but EXTREMELY FAMILIAR WITH KIDNEY STONES. Depending on the Dr., you should be given a choice on if you want a general anesthetic or IV Sedation. I've had TONS of lithotripsies, and in my experience, I would DEFINITELY have at least IV Sedation because it DOES HURT! (mild discomfort my ***) Your Dr. obviously hasn't had a lithotripsy done or he would be offering you a choice of aneshetic.

I have never heard of anything that softens stones (there is a particular stone composition which can be dissolved by Rx meds, but I forget which kind - I have calcium oxlate stones and these cannot be dissolved), but I guess there is no harm in trying it out.

Take care

 
Old 09-03-2005, 07:31 AM   #3
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstone_queen
Hi Charlatan,

Read my post titled newbie---but EXTREMELY FAMILIAR WITH KIDNEY STONES. Depending on the Dr., you should be given a choice on if you want a general anesthetic or IV Sedation. I've had TONS of lithotripsies, and in my experience, I would DEFINITELY have at least IV Sedation because it DOES HURT! (mild discomfort my ***) Your Dr. obviously hasn't had a lithotripsy done or he would be offering you a choice of aneshetic.

I have never heard of anything that softens stones (there is a particular stone composition which can be dissolved by Rx meds, but I forget which kind - I have calcium oxlate stones and these cannot be dissolved), but I guess there is no harm in trying it out.

Take care
Hello kstone..

You seem to have a lot going on there (I read your thread). Yuck, I do feel for you. Thanks for the reply.
I didn't know much about lithotripsy before.

I'm wondering whether this procedure causes you to suffer much, afterwards, with renal colic, as you try to pass the particles of stone? And if so, how long this lasts. Am due to go abroad 4 weeks after having it done and am now worried about it.
And the lithotripsy damages the kidney?? What's that all about? I thought the idea was it's a safe way to get rid of the stones?! lol
Doesn't sound like a good treatment to have, right this minute!

 
Old 09-03-2005, 02:05 PM   #4
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Hi Charlatan,

Yes, you are going to have pain afterwards. How long it lasts depends (how many stones are being targeted?, how big is the stone?, is there a stent in place?). The more stones that are being broke up, the more pieces you have to flush out (same goes if it is a big stone). There is a lot of research being done on how bad ESWL (lithotripsy) really is. It causes severe acute and chronic side effects. Just do some research of your own on the web. You would be surprised at what you find on ESWL induced renal injury.

To a Urologist, ESWL is the greatest invention in urological surgery. Think about it....the Dr. doesn't have to spend a great deal of time in the O.R. doing a complicated surgery, he has nurses and litho techs do most of the work (the Dr. just sits at the head of the table and says start, increase power, shoot X-Ray, stone appears fragmented, all done!). It usually takes less than an hour and the average cost is $6000! They usually have a few cases scheduled in one day. So, it's EXTREMELY EASY money for them. Most of the time, they don't even change into scrubs. Roughly 90% - 95% of lithotripsies have to be repeated, and so the cycle begins. You become very good business for them. Well, I've rambled enough. Please, please, do some research on the web and get all the facts (especially the ones your Dr. isn't going to volunteer - such as, what is his success rate? How many initial lithotripsies become repeat litho's? etc.)

I hope I've been some help to you and good luck!

 
Old 09-06-2005, 07:04 AM   #5
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Check the Uriflow thread. I had perfect success.
(Others have not had my success - but most positive).
Jay

 
Old 09-06-2005, 07:26 AM   #6
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ticoar HB User
Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

When you say perfect success, do you mean you have had new x-rays or ct's done and all of your stones are gone? Or do you mean the pain has stopped so you think the problem is solved?

 
Old 09-06-2005, 07:35 AM   #7
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

My urologist poked at me. He did a urinalysis. He released me. He did not order another scan. No blood in urine at a microscopic level.

Jay

 
Old 09-06-2005, 08:51 AM   #8
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ticoar HB User
Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Well, unfortunatley you do not know then if your stones are gone. You should have another scan or x-ray to know whether your stone(s) are still there. You have claimed "perfect success" from using a product to others on this board but you don't even know if that is true or not. Always keep in mind that there are many desparate people looking for help on these boards and when you claim victory with a certain product it may influence many people to go and purchase that product. I feel with the various treatments and remedies we come across and experiment with, we owe it to each other who share the same miserable condition of kidney stones to report honestly and objectively our results. You should at least be absolutely sure of your current status with your stones before claiming an all out victory.

 
Old 09-06-2005, 11:09 AM   #9
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

My urologist has had 9 years of training plus whatever is required by that specialty. He pronounced me clear of stones. It is true that he may have made a mistake, but it is difficult for me to tell him he does not know what he is doing.

I feel great. I have absolutely no pain.

Jay

 
Old 09-06-2005, 12:20 PM   #10
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ticoar HB User
Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

I hope more than anything else that you are clear of stones. How he can claim you are free of stones by poking you and checking your urine, must be a new technique that he has developed. The only way, and please correct me if I am wrong anyone, to be sure you have or dont have kidney stones is by looking inside the body in some way, shape or form. As we have learned from these boards, you have the obligation to question your doctor, we are not just to take everything they say as gospel. They are people just like us and because he gave you the answer you may of wanted to hear does not mean he came to that conclusion by doing all the steps necassary to back it up. We all have been pain free after passing a stone, thats the way it works quite often, only to end up back in the ER several months to several years later to learn we have more stones that had piled up. Again, I hope you are free of stones and never get one again, I hope this for everyone on this board, but you owe it to yourself to question and verify the diagnosis you were given to avoid future surprises.

Last edited by ticoar; 09-06-2005 at 12:21 PM.

 
Old 09-06-2005, 06:00 PM   #11
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

I tend to agree with you ticoar, as my kidney stone is 7mm and never felt anything. It has been discovered while looking for some other stuff (liver and galbladder issues). Well they seem to be OK but I am stuck now with the stone :-(
I will advise how Uriflow works on me.

mbede

 
Old 09-06-2005, 06:42 PM   #12
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ticoar HB User
Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

I hope it works for you. I have scheduled my liptotripsy for Friday the 16th so I will let you know how it goes. After reading kstonequeens story I really did alot of research and I feel pretty comfortable. I will be treating what looks to be a cluster of stones (2-3) that measures about 8mm and most importantly there will be no STENT . I read tons and tons of studies and opinions on the treatment and I think it comes down to the Urologist and the methods he utilizes and equipment to maintain minimum tissue damge to the kidney or surrounding areas. I took in a list of questions today to my Urologist just to make absolutely sure I was comfortable with him and see the way he answerd them. He did not dodge a question and was very knowledgable with his answers. He has been doing these for 18 years and believes if done correctly is a very safe procedure. There is one thing we can't forget......doing nothing can be more damaging than any treatment currently availiable. Good luck.

 
Old 09-08-2005, 07:11 AM   #13
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Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ticoar
I hope it works for you. I have scheduled my liptotripsy for Friday the 16th so I will let you know how it goes. After reading kstonequeens story I really did alot of research and I feel pretty comfortable. I will be treating what looks to be a cluster of stones (2-3) that measures about 8mm and most importantly there will be no STENT . I read tons and tons of studies and opinions on the treatment and I think it comes down to the Urologist and the methods he utilizes and equipment to maintain minimum tissue damge to the kidney or surrounding areas. I took in a list of questions today to my Urologist just to make absolutely sure I was comfortable with him and see the way he answerd them. He did not dodge a question and was very knowledgable with his answers. He has been doing these for 18 years and believes if done correctly is a very safe procedure. There is one thing we can't forget......doing nothing can be more damaging than any treatment currently availiable. Good luck.
Ahh, I hope you have some success with your lithotripsy next friday, ticoar. My urologist said there would be no stent in place for me, either. I think the risk of having no stent, is that you can suffer renal colic, as the fragmented stones pass through. But I see people have said the stents are painful, so I guess you can't win for losing.
On a brighter note, I just spoke about it to a girl from work and she says her mother in law gets stones and swears by lithotripsy and has had it done several times, with no problems.
Decisions.. decisions..

 
Old 09-08-2005, 07:57 AM   #14
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ticoar HB User
Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

LOL....can't win for losing is the perfect expression when talking about kidney stones. Do you have a lipto schedulrd? I did ask my doc how many of his patients who do not get a stent end up in ER begging for mercy passing the fragments and assured me that it was "very, very few". He said if he anticipated that in the slightest he would reccomend a stent. The way I look at it is if I do nothing, chances are those stones will eventually break free and start to pass and land me in the ER anyway (possibly worse than renal colic), so I guess I would rather take my chances with small fragments than the whole stone. Unfortunatley we have stones and there is only so many options of treatment availiable so we must do something, doing nothing is much worse.

 
Old 09-08-2005, 11:25 AM   #15
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Charlatan HB User
Re: Kidney stones & lithotripsy & slicing apart my kidney!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ticoar
LOL....can't win for losing is the perfect expression when talking about kidney stones. Do you have a lipto schedulrd? I did ask my doc how many of his patients who do not get a stent end up in ER begging for mercy passing the fragments and assured me that it was "very, very few". He said if he anticipated that in the slightest he would reccomend a stent. The way I look at it is if I do nothing, chances are those stones will eventually break free and start to pass and land me in the ER anyway (possibly worse than renal colic), so I guess I would rather take my chances with small fragments than the whole stone. Unfortunatley we have stones and there is only so many options of treatment availiable so we must do something, doing nothing is much worse.
Aye, am scheduled for lithotripsy at the end of October (am in UK, so waiting list on the NHS). One of my concerns, is suffering renal colic for weeks and weeks afterwards, when I'm due to fly to the USA, 4 weeks afterwards. Did your urologist say how long til you feel 100%, after?
I can't decide what to do. My doc doesn't even think it will help me, since my stones are all embedded in the spongey tissue of the kidney now.
Least I have plenty of time to think about it.
I do fear getting renal colic after having it done. New Years Day I had the worst ever bout of it and wanted to die, it hurt so much. Unless you've had it, you can't possibly understand how excrutiating it can be. Wish there was a magic wand for sufferers.
Still, keep on keepin' on, eh?

 
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