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Old 07-05-2005, 07:55 AM   #1
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High Enzyme Levels?

Hi,

Went in last week for blood tests (to check for diabetes). Got a call this morning saying they want to take tests again because of extremely high levels of enzymes in the liver.

I had surgery a year ago, and remembered in the surgical notes the doctor said there were "nodes" on my liver, but they didn't seem inflamed or anything. Almost like they were dried up (according to the gastro doc). And now I get this.

What does this mean? Is this cirrohsis, Hepatitis C, or what ?


Tayah

Last edited by Tayah; 07-05-2005 at 07:56 AM. Reason: instant email notification

 
Old 07-05-2005, 10:37 AM   #2
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Hi Tayah
So you've joined us in the high liver enzymes club, huh? First of all, this is common and the numbers go back down on their own most of the time. (mine were in the high 1000's and are back down to closer to normal-I don't have hep or cirrhosis) Having high liver enzyme #'s doesn't necessarily mean you have Hep or cirrhosis. Everything we eat, drink and breathe goes thru our liver-so many things can elevate the #'s. Any cold, flus, or virus will make them go up also. Abt the 'nodes'--if they didn't do anything abt them last yr they are probably fatty cysts (sometimes called fatty tumors) or hemangiomas. They are very common-most ppl have them and don't even know it.

Do you take any meds? Even OTC's (esp tylenol) will raise your #'s. If your bloodwork comes back high again your dr may want you to d/c any unnecessary meds, stop all alcohol intake (I was a glass of wine a month drinker--if that) & do an ultrasound just to look at the "nodes"--that's how they diagnose fatty liver/fatty cysts/tumors and hemangiomas. Birth Control pills contribute to hemangiomas--they are little pockets of blood on the liver that can "dry up" as you said. Most ppl that find they have them are being checked for something else when these are found. They rarely remove them-may check them every yr or so to see if they've changed size. Let me know how things go for you. If you have any other ?'s I can answer I will--there are a lot of other GREAT ppl here w/alot of good info too!
HappyELf/Gina

 
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:46 AM   #3
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyelf
Hi Tayah
So you've joined us in the high liver enzymes club, huh? First of all, this is common and the numbers go back down on their own most of the time. (mine were in the high 1000's and are back down to closer to normal-I don't have hep or cirrhosis) Having high liver enzyme #'s doesn't necessarily mean you have Hep or cirrhosis. Everything we eat, drink and breathe goes thru our liver-so many things can elevate the #'s. Any cold, flus, or virus will make them go up also. Abt the 'nodes'--if they didn't do anything abt them last yr they are probably fatty cysts (sometimes called fatty tumors) or hemangiomas. They are very common-most ppl have them and don't even know it.

Do you take any meds? Even OTC's (esp tylenol) will raise your #'s. If your bloodwork comes back high again your dr may want you to d/c any unnecessary meds, stop all alcohol intake (I was a glass of wine a month drinker--if that) & do an ultrasound just to look at the "nodes"--that's how they diagnose fatty liver/fatty cysts/tumors and hemangiomas. Birth Control pills contribute to hemangiomas--they are little pockets of blood on the liver that can "dry up" as you said. Most ppl that find they have them are being checked for something else when these are found. They rarely remove them-may check them every yr or so to see if they've changed size. Let me know how things go for you. If you have any other ?'s I can answer I will--there are a lot of other GREAT ppl here w/alot of good info too!
HappyELf/Gina
I'm so glad you wrote me! I've been freaking all morning, reading ***** about this, trying to keep calm. The site said that prior to 1990, people who had surgeries (in particular C-section moms- I had three - were high risk for hepititis C, along with people who did a lot of drinking, and other things.) Dr. C. Everett Koop says that Hep C and Cirohsis were silent epidemics, and will surpass HIV in the next five years in the critical/death stage. Very informative, very scary.
Anyway,I'm not taking any meds right now, and these are my vits:

B-complex
B-12 - 2500mcg 3x a week
Vit c
calcium citrate (2000mg)
Omega 3
Magnesium
Potassium
90g of protein

You see, I had gastric bypass surgery, so even though I haven't had to take ANY of my asthma, high blood pressure, beta blockers, etc. since the day I went into surgery, I do have to keep up with my vitamins.

I'll let you know what happens, and thanks alot.

 
Old 07-05-2005, 10:57 AM   #4
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

You're welcome-!! I know how scary it is--been there. I know you want to figure all of this out as soon as you can, but try not to read too much on the internet--it will scare the crap out of you! As the info you got from your bloodwork is overwhelming-so the the internet info on liver enzymes. Stess will make your #'s go up also. I know--it's like, "great, I'm freaked out abt high numbers, but stress can make them go up even more!! Now what?" It's hard to do, but try and relax--and stay away fromt he net until you talk to your dr!
Yes- you have to keep up with your vitamins. Based on what you take and why your dr will have to determine if they are a contributing factor. Bless you for having 3 c-sections!! Compared to that, this is nothing!! LOL I have 3 kids-2 are twins- each was 6 + lbs and 8 wks early. Mine were not c-section tho-you gals that do that then come home to take care of the baby are my heros!! :-)

 
Old 07-05-2005, 04:07 PM   #5
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TheHappyMan HB UserTheHappyMan HB User
Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayah
I'm so glad you wrote me! I've been freaking all morning, reading ***** about this, trying to keep calm. The site said that prior to 1990, people who had surgeries (in particular C-section moms- I had three - were high risk for hepititis C, along with people who did a lot of drinking, and other things.) Dr. C. Everett Koop says that Hep C and Cirohsis were silent epidemics, and will surpass HIV in the next five years in the critical/death stage. Very informative, very scary.
Anyway,I'm not taking any meds right now, and these are my vits:

B-complex
B-12 - 2500mcg 3x a week
Vit c
calcium citrate (2000mg)
Omega 3
Magnesium
Potassium
90g of protein

You see, I had gastric bypass surgery, so even though I haven't had to take ANY of my asthma, high blood pressure, beta blockers, etc. since the day I went into surgery, I do have to keep up with my vitamins.

I'll let you know what happens, and thanks alot.
The Vitamins are great for you but not known to lower liver enzymes...
If you are interested in trying, try some over the counter supplements to lower your enzymes....
Things like Milk Thistle, Dandelion Root, Artichoke Root, Burdock Root, Schizandra, Lecithin, and Alpha Lipoic Acid.... My AST dived from 147 to 27 and the ALT from 71 to 17 in about six months...... (All other enzymes are well in normal ranges).... Oh well, it worked for me....

 
Old 07-06-2005, 06:13 AM   #6
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Having an ultrasound at this point would help alot in determining just what those "nodes" are, or were?When you say high numbers, just how high are they?Marcia

 
Old 07-10-2005, 08:00 AM   #7
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Tayah HB User
Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Hi Again,

It's Sunday, and I guess I'm just stressing out about this whole thing. I'm sure everyone starts reevaluating their lives once something like this presents itself. I'm already trying to decide whether this is something I want to deal with while living with someone I've been married to for 11 years - not very happily.

He doesn't seem to recognize that I'm in pain, in fear, in anger, and maybe a little bit of denial. He actually gets an attitude when I tell him that support for me at this time is not sticking your head in the door and asking if I'm okay every twenty minutes. He then goes into his computer room and disappears for an hour or two. Then he says that he does it because I act like I don't want him around. Well, hell, I don't when he's not even capable of trying to understand what I'm going through.

He blames me for every shortcoming his has. He says it's my fault that he's not more affectionate, when in fact, the stories his family has told me proves he's always been this way.

So, you can see why I may have to leave if I do have this disease, because I'm not sure I want to or should be around so much stress and lack of emotional support.

Hell, because of this, I may very well leave anyway.

Tayah


Quote:
Originally Posted by happyelf
You're welcome-!! I know how scary it is--been there. I know you want to figure all of this out as soon as you can, but try not to read too much on the internet--it will scare the crap out of you! As the info you got from your bloodwork is overwhelming-so the the internet info on liver enzymes. Stess will make your #'s go up also. I know--it's like, "great, I'm freaked out abt high numbers, but stress can make them go up even more!! Now what?" It's hard to do, but try and relax--and stay away fromt he net until you talk to your dr!
Yes- you have to keep up with your vitamins. Based on what you take and why your dr will have to determine if they are a contributing factor. Bless you for having 3 c-sections!! Compared to that, this is nothing!! LOL I have 3 kids-2 are twins- each was 6 + lbs and 8 wks early. Mine were not c-section tho-you gals that do that then come home to take care of the baby are my heros!! :-)

 
Old 07-10-2005, 05:20 PM   #8
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Hi Tayah--
First of all--YOU ARE NOT to blame for HIS shortcomings!! Do not let him do that to you. You're a good person who gave birth to 3 children and right now is dealing with A LOT. It's natural for you to need some softness-and some guys get scared-and don't know how to convey it-so they act like idiots. You can ALWAYS come here for support--there are a lot of great ppl here--just for that purpose.Just try to stay off the net searching for things abt it--that will drive you nuts and scare you into thinking you have every symptom you read abt.
I'm so sorry--your stress level must be off the charts.It'll add to it. I think most men don't "get it" to begin with--they don't have to be in tune with their bodies from the start llike we do. (Don't beat me up guys--if you're reading this--)We go to the ob/gyn every year. They don't have to do that. It's when THEY get hit with something BIG they realize mortality, & gain some compassion. I think it takes more courage to admit your shortcomings than it takes to act like you have none.
Do you think your husband is scared and doesn't know how to convey it to you? That was my husbands problem. It took me going into a coma & him being told I would not live before he showed some compassion for what I had been going thru. I had symptoms my liver was failing for abt a yr. Hi enzymes when I'd get bloodwork for other things-it was always explained away. Went to the dr a # of times w/strange symptoms-was told nothing's wrong. At the time I had no idea that all of them together were indicators of liver failure. My dr missed them all-many more than I listed here. Husband was getting tired of the bills & acting like I was a hypochondriac. Week b/f it happened I went to the dr w/tingling & numbness in my arms, legs, hand, feet and hips-& had the flu. I couldn't hold a cup in the morning-felt nothing in my hand-sometimes it hit inthe middle of the day out of the blue. Hands or feet would swell up like balloons. Was told carpel tunnel-but the med student in w/him said "what abt her hips,feet & shoulders?" Dr said "I think it's pressure points form her bed" I said I had a waterbed--but he was sure it was carpel tunnel. I asked him abt all the other things going on-did each one mean nothing separate from the others, but put them all together and it was something else? Nope. 7 days later I was in a coma w/total liver failure. My enzymes were 3900/7900--but I lived. And the first thing my husband did when I woke up was snap at me. Like I did it on purpose--right. I'd been told for a yr I was fine--and it wasn't. I had no idea where I was-and he's barking at me. When I came to my senses a little more--he started it all over again--and I said" Pretty good thanks-I'm glad I 'm alive too!!" It wasn't until I was home from the hosp a week that he admitted he was frightened--and conveyed it that way.
I know you said he's been like this longer than you've been married-and tigers usually dont' change their stripes overnite--but do you think you can talk to him abt it that way---him being scared--or would you rather not?(which it kind of sounded like.)

Whatever the reason for your high enzymes--it needs to be taken care of...please don't let his being there stop you from getting care you need--you have 3 kids who need you. Hopefully these enzymes will trend down and it'll be a non-issue. I am also low-risk for hep, rarely drink alcohol, (maybe that's my problem ) and stopped the little bit of smoking I did 14yrs ago. My liver failed for a # of reasons-my #'s are now in the hundreds...which is hi for most ppl--but for me, it's good. I can still meds--and I get bloodwork done every month to make sure #'s are still ok. So the liver can regenerate itself--I'm proof. (When I woke up I was placed at the top of the liver transplant list--and it did so well while I was waiting I didn't need a new liver. If that's not a success story, I don't know what is. )
Take care of yourself Tayah. Whether you leave him or not is moot--you need to do what's right for your health. Let me know how you are. I care.
Gina

 
Old 07-10-2005, 05:43 PM   #9
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Tayah HB User
Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyelf
Hi Tayah--
First of all--YOU ARE NOT to blame for HIS shortcomings!! Do not let him do that to you. You're a good person who gave birth to 3 children and right now is dealing with A LOT. It's natural for you to need some softness-and some guys get scared-and don't know how to convey it-so they act like idiots. You can ALWAYS come here for support--there are a lot of great ppl here--just for that purpose.Just try to stay off the net searching for things abt it--that will drive you nuts and scare you into thinking you have every symptom you read abt.
I'm so sorry--your stress level must be off the charts.It'll add to it. I think most men don't "get it" to begin with--they don't have to be in tune with their bodies from the start llike we do. (Don't beat me up guys--if you're reading this--)We go to the ob/gyn every year. They don't have to do that. It's when THEY get hit with something BIG they realize mortality, & gain some compassion. I think it takes more courage to admit your shortcomings than it takes to act like you have none.
Do you think your husband is scared and doesn't know how to convey it to you? That was my husbands problem. It took me going into a coma & him being told I would not live before he showed some compassion for what I had been going thru. I had symptoms my liver was failing for abt a yr. Hi enzymes when I'd get bloodwork for other things-it was always explained away. Went to the dr a # of times w/strange symptoms-was told nothing's wrong. At the time I had no idea that all of them together were indicators of liver failure. My dr missed them all-many more than I listed here. Husband was getting tired of the bills & acting like I was a hypochondriac. Week b/f it happened I went to the dr w/tingling & numbness in my arms, legs, hand, feet and hips-& had the flu. I couldn't hold a cup in the morning-felt nothing in my hand-sometimes it hit inthe middle of the day out of the blue. Hands or feet would swell up like balloons. Was told carpel tunnel-but the med student in w/him said "what abt her hips,feet & shoulders?" Dr said "I think it's pressure points form her bed" I said I had a waterbed--but he was sure it was carpel tunnel. I asked him abt all the other things going on-did each one mean nothing separate from the others, but put them all together and it was something else? Nope. 7 days later I was in a coma w/total liver failure. My enzymes were 3900/7900--but I lived. And the first thing my husband did when I woke up was snap at me. Like I did it on purpose--right. I'd been told for a yr I was fine--and it wasn't. I had no idea where I was-and he's barking at me. When I came to my senses a little more--he started it all over again--and I said" Pretty good thanks-I'm glad I 'm alive too!!" It wasn't until I was home from the hosp a week that he admitted he was frightened--and conveyed it that way.
I know you said he's been like this longer than you've been married-and tigers usually dont' change their stripes overnite--but do you think you can talk to him abt it that way---him being scared--or would you rather not?(which it kind of sounded like.)

Whatever the reason for your high enzymes--it needs to be taken care of...please don't let his being there stop you from getting care you need--you have 3 kids who need you. Hopefully these enzymes will trend down and it'll be a non-issue. I am also low-risk for hep, rarely drink alcohol, (maybe that's my problem ) and stopped the little bit of smoking I did 14yrs ago. My liver failed for a # of reasons-my #'s are now in the hundreds...which is hi for most ppl--but for me, it's good. I can still meds--and I get bloodwork done every month to make sure #'s are still ok. So the liver can regenerate itself--I'm proof. (When I woke up I was placed at the top of the liver transplant list--and it did so well while I was waiting I didn't need a new liver. If that's not a success story, I don't know what is. )
Take care of yourself Tayah. Whether you leave him or not is moot--you need to do what's right for your health. Let me know how you are. I care.
Gina
What a sweet letter. Boy, did I need it. We got into Another argument today, and I have to admit I started it. I was so frustrated over his lack of care, and I lashed out, wanting to hurt him. I can't hold his hand through this, and I'm not going to try. Right now, as I'm waiting to hear whether or not I've got hep, or whatever ever is going on, I've been thinking about all the things I've put off, waiting for him to "come on board." We were missionaries when we moved here, but he lost steam somewhere along the line, and as a dutiful wife, I stopped moving forward to stay with him, believing he would pick up steam again. He didn't, and he hasn't. Now, I sit here thinking, "I'm not going to get to go here, and if this happens, I won't be able to do that," etc., and I'm angry, because all these years I've suppressed my desires, only to have them manifest through spending and shopping and buying and eating, and on and on...

Even now, with all that's been going on, he still says, "What did I do?" and "How have I been unsensitive?". I don't have the energy or desire to talk with him about it anymore. I figure now if he hasn't got it, then he really doesn't want to. Yes, we have talked about his behavior and the fact that he's always been this way. I told him I will no longer take responsibility for his not being emotionally supportive, not wanting to be physically close. He loves to say that it's because of my attitude, and though it may be partially true, I most certainly did not come into this 11 year relationship with this attitude or the intention of using it against him.

Anyway, some interesting events have come up as a result of this week of reality hitting me in the face. I spoke with an association who focus is on Hep the other day. Because of the area I live in, the fact that I'm an African-american, and am very, very interested in how Hepatitis C affects the African-American community, and have ten years experience working in the Human Services arena, I've asked to help set up place of operation where information and education can be installed in both a professional and community driven service center.

I have resolved to do this as a way of rectifying my past lack of participation in matters of importance. I am excited about this, and whether or not I have this or some stage of liver disease or worse, God willing, I will be able to put myself in a position to be of service to people again.

Tayah

 
Old 07-12-2005, 05:56 PM   #10
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Hi Tayah!

When do you get you hep results? Please let me know--I care. You're not alone. I'm sorry you have to go through this-I really am. The waiting is the worst. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for negative results.
Congratulations to you!!! One good thing has come from this: your renewed desire to help others. As in any area of life, knowledge is power, and the more ppl are educated abt hep and liver disease in general, the sooner we can thwart the spread. Many ppl have no idea there are 5 different hepatitis strains now. There is such a stigma attached to Hepatitis--and many misconceptions bourne from that stigma. No longer is it only from tainted needles or sexual contact...some are foodbourne/airbourne illnesses. Education is much needed, in any community, and it sounds like you have the perfect background-and passion-to get the job done in your area. The world can use more people like you! Do you think this will give your husband the "kick in the seat" he needs to get back on board? Maybe so--maybe not. I'm hoping he takes your cue...if you were missionaires when you first got there--maybe this will spur his interest again(I hope) I don't know you, but I can tell you're at the end of your rope with him--with it all.
The statement "I figure he he hasn't got it now, then he really doesn't want to" speaks Volumes. Men get comfortable--they get settled in, and they dislike change. They get used to living with someone they take for granted. And unfortunately, from that-the physical intimacy wears off...then a greater divide is in place. It's a vicious circle for both ppl.
You need to do what's right for your health and your kids. They go hand-in-hand--and your first allegiance is to them. He can come second. Don't even worry abt him "coming on board" until/unless you get a positive result. The waiting is bad enough without the "what if I do have it..." That's step two if its not neg. One step at a time.
When I hit 40 last yr I began to realize if I didn't make my own plans to do the things I've always wanted, he wasn't going to do it for me. My husband was going to keep on doing all the things he wanted to accomplish for his happiness-goals...he wasn't stopping to think-"Hmm, it's Gina's turn. Maybe I should stop golfing one night a week so she can actually volunteer AT the Ronald McDonald House like she wants--not just donate to it." So I found the sitter & made my arrangements. I don't resent him--he doesn't even know he's doing it. It just took 15yrs for me to realize they will never stop and think abt us the way we think abt them--we have to make it "our turn".
It sounds like you're on the right track. The arguing right now is in part, probably from the stress you're under. Hopefully that will end in a day or so with your results. Take care of yourself. You can do this. Let me know how things turn out!!
Gina

 
Old 08-31-2005, 01:48 PM   #11
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

"We got into Another argument today, and I have to admit I started it. He doesn't seem to recognize that I'm in pain, in fear, in anger. I lashed out, wanting to hurt him."

"spending and shopping and buying and eating, and on and on..." Not a good idea. It's wasteful and only hurts you or the person who's money you are spending.


Oh I so do hope you feel better now. It's hard to get along with anyone when your marriage is not good. I hope you two can "talk" it out and get back on track. I've never experienced this but maybe a therapist could help.

Last edited by 2003__SusieQ; 08-31-2005 at 01:52 PM.

 
Old 09-03-2005, 11:21 PM   #12
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Quote:
Birth Control pills contribute to hemangiomas--they are little pockets of blood on the liver that can "dry up" as you said.
Are these things harmful?

 
Old 09-04-2005, 08:34 AM   #13
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

no, not harmful, but they are very common.

Last edited by happyelf; 09-04-2005 at 08:35 AM. Reason: sp

 
Old 09-05-2005, 07:00 AM   #14
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

It all depends on where they decide to show up really.in the liver they probably are nothing major but the one that decided to actually show up inside of my spinal cord,really sucks.Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 09-05-2005, 06:42 PM   #15
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Re: High Enzyme Levels?

Yes, that would really suck. In the liver they usually leave them alone as they rarely pose a risk. What do they do if it's in your spinal cord--remove it w/surgery? That must have been awful for you. I hope you're feeling better now and not suffering any lasting effects. Gina

 
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