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Old 09-15-2010, 02:03 PM   #1
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what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices, brusing, nose bleeds because his platlet levels are at 42 he hasnt had ant bleeds but the doctor wants to ban his varices

 
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:14 AM   #2
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

before ANY actual banding begins, the bigger thing YOU need to ask this doc is just how much REAL bloodflow is actively STILL running thru his portal vein. its very important to just know THAT part before they start that banding crap(mostly as it will take repeated bandings over and over whenever a 'new" bleeder starts up again). there just IS a really good alternative called the TIPS procedure if ALL real blood flow has been closed off and his ammoina levels would also kind of prove this out as well with higher levels possibley affecting his brain? when banding is told to you that its needed at all, its usually becasue the patient is suffering from whats called portal hypertension which the bandings will not get rid of(and this IS the bigger impact/lifethreat, but that TIPS actually gets rid of P hypertension that bandings wont), but only stop the active bleeders that are overly engorged with a much higher pressure/bloodflow that is way more than any real vein is simply MENT to have flowing thru it almost as an artery would be becasue all that bloodflow simply is backing up into the paths of least resistance,the weaker pressured veins? and that just would include that liver itself, the possible spleen, the veins within the stomach and on up into the facial area via the delicate vessels of his throat too? this can also create ALOT of nosebleeds as well?

simply finding out what that P vein status actually is here and actually asking about that TIPS procedure where they CAN releive that P hypertension, in many cases is the best way to go when there is a closed off P vein. this is what they just did on my son instead of what wpould have been repeated runs to the U of MN where he was dxed as being in liver failure with NO real bloodflow simply even able to go thru that critical P vein anymore by that time.

my best advice to you right now would be to simply research the living hell out of what that TIPS procedure actually just IS and how it works and THEN, armed with good solid info, ask his treating doc who wants to even do the bandings about the possible TIPS instead? if his P vein esp is now closed off, that TIPS will do alot for him vs repeatitive bandings would that never actually take away that P hypertension. print off anything you feel that you find on that TIPS so you can show his doc that you have done good research on this and ask what his real opinion is between the two? that TIPS is basically kind of a 'bypass shunt' that they can snake down into his liver ans into a 'good solid looking vein they map out ahead of the procedure to place that shunt? that releives that P hypertention that is at the very core of why he has vessels breaking in the first place?

just DO the reaearch in TIPS and you will understand much more between the two very different procedures. i wish you both luck with this. please DO keep me posted, marcia
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:13 PM   #3
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

I have had everything you have listed and they upped me to end stage liver disease with a stage 3 dx. I hoped that help. It might be diffrent for you depending on what else is going on with you. Good luck and keep us updated.

 
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justmare1 (01-15-2011), Searchin (01-26-2011)
Old 11-18-2010, 08:14 AM   #4
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

just curious imp. have they been doing repeated bandings on you or did they decide to go ahead and do a TIPS procedure? if you have a completely closed off P vien, this really DOES get rid of the underlying pressure that simply does go "upwards' and into the organs i mentioned above(causeing the repeated nose bleeds and an insane amount of 'back up pressure too)? once you 'band off' a bleeder, it is considered kind of dead from that point on and out of the circulation too? but that TIPS simply bypasses the back up of blood, thus relieving that main life threat, and gets rid of all that real backed up pressure that runs back into all the more fragile veins that just break and bleed since they are not ment to even carry high pressure blood flow.

how has your overall ammonia levels been? so sorry you are even having to deal with what i KNOW is a pretty insane disease, and the stages of liver failure at all here. marcia
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3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:09 PM   #5
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucydawn View Post
what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices, brusing, nose bleeds because his platlet levels are at 42 he hasnt had ant bleeds but the doctor wants to ban his varices

 
Old 01-26-2011, 01:31 AM   #6
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

sorry ive been so busy,,my husbans is going in for his first banning march 14th 2011,, hes had no bleeds yet thank god,,sorry to here your in ESLD,, I think thats where my husband is I cant get any answers from the doctors its hard, he was sleeping alot but the las week hes been great active everything do you go threw times like that, where you sleep alot and then you feel great for a week or so, thanks linda

 
Old 01-26-2011, 05:42 AM   #7
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

lucy, andf this just IS very xcrucial here. if he has actually ahd NO actual bleeds yet, just how in the heck are they EVEN going to fully 'know' just what veins 'NEED" banding??? that is MY personal problem with this particular plan hon. if there simply IS NO actual bleeds within that throat or the stomach, they seriously do NOT even know yet what 'ones' ar ethe probelm but will be fully deadening them anyways?

the main reason that people with more in depth liver failure sleep alot IS usually the bulid up of ammonia due to the closed off portal vein? some will be overly sleepy and some will actually vhave much more 'insomnia' types of symtpms? oit varies from person to person.

but the one HUGE thing that you simply need to get the answer to here BEFORE they simply very randomly start "killing off" with bandings ANY actual veins that will never come back, and could be just fine too, IS how much realistic 'bloodflow IS simply going thru that portal vein", where the ammonia justs gets removed from out blood only by simply passing thru it at all(this just IS a highly critical function that occurs right there)? if there is ANY bloodflow actually still going thru that P vein with NO ACTUAL bleeders yet forming, he more than likely can wait for that part. if there just realistacally is NO real bloodflow anymore going thru that critical P vein, then NO real ammonia is getting filtered either along with what is biuilding up in his system AS ammonia that for some sick reason just really attaches to brain cells extremely well and pretty quickly. and THAT IS when the TIPS should be brought up, not bandings that simply will NOT take away that back up of blood that is what just creates the breaking and bleeding of the very fragile veins running within our stomachs on up thru the throat and also possibly the nose too kinda thing?

when my son,then only 12, was found to have absolutely NO actual bloodflow running thru the P vein,at first, they were gfoing to actually do the sick bandings that would also kill off what would be needed vessels for veinous return onec we hopefully recieved that life saving tx one day soon. but doing that TIPS really DOES remove ALLL that very high pressure buld/backup fromthe whole upper GI and takes away that NEED to band/kill off veins in those key areas. byt any blood flow still there is what truely makes this decision overall lucy.

yopu simply CANNOT allow ANY doc to intimmidate you lucy (been there done THAT)since honestly, they DO/can make mistakes just like any other human being. i watched one of my sons four year res GI docs make a few idiotic mistakes in dx/treatment, or LACK of and other really important stuff my son just needed or she soooo F***** up on too. just research ANYTHING and everyhting pertaining to portal hypertension, bandings and that amazing TIPS procedure, THEN discuss this with his main treating doc re options that are just not AS impactful. either procedure has its pros ansd cons, but personally after simply seeing how much better our son was doing post TIPS i would seriously recommend this particular procedure to ANYONE who simply is IN P hypertension with no or very very minimal bloodflow going thru their own P veins. while TIPS does take away the hypertension(high blood pressure) within "just"that upper GI on upwards to the face/brain, the bandings simply do NOT do that part. and both procedures would also require ongoing monitoring of his overall ammonia levels too, no matter which way you go here. but that TIPS allows that more immediate lifethreat to go away within the vulnerable upper GI while the bandings simply do NOT, and with him NOT EVEN HAVING any bleeders at this point yet, how in gods name are they supposed to EVEN know just what vessels to kill/band off right now, or in march too if 'nothing' has even started to break and bleed????? that one kills me, honestly. you simply HAVE TO have that real honest to god "bleeder" goin on before you even KNOW what to actually band off, ya know? and that IS what YOU truely need to remember here lucy.

my very BEST possible advice to you right now lucy, is to research the living heck out of the TIPS, bandings,anbd the portal hyp0wertension that is what is needed to even have these particular procedures while also writing down ANY possible really good questions you may have for his doc when you see him again too. this just IS the very best way to know whats up and discuss with docs anything and everything having to do with overall condition and what IS and is NOT actually needed for the best possible treatment considering HIS overall medical status. youy will never be sorry that you took this time to simply 'inform' yourself, trust me on THAT one. even knowing what docs are talking about by looking into certain things soo truely matters here in just about any real medical situation and making those critical choices too. just find out where HE is at and what are the best possible treatment options consideing HIS condition and not what any doc simply 'feels' like doing when its not even needed yet? good luck lucy, and do please keep me posted hon. marcia
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3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 02-01-2011, 10:43 AM   #8
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

I have end-stage cirrhosis and it was diagnosed Aug 2009....

I have all those things except nose bleeding and my GP has it pretty well under control.

I am 80 years and fight it everyday hoping it will get better. I will say that increasing my protein 40gm daily to 75 to 80 it has really helped my strength. My muscle mass is almost non-existant.

Lactalose keeps my ammonia under control..I was hospitalized last Jan, Feb and march for several days for high ammonia but as I said it's under control for now.

I ALSO HAVE A LARGE UMBILICAL HERNIA, my GP does not want to disturd it just now. I wear a 4" like corset to keep it down some.

I hope I have helped, keep your chin up!

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Old 02-02-2011, 07:27 AM   #9
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Re: what stage of cirrhosis after developing ascites, edema and varices

so sorry for all you are having to deal with snowman. but congrats on the 80 thing AND dealing with what you have been. it is definitely NOT an easy road there. i hope things continue to stay stable for you.

lucy, if your hubbys docs wont listen, MAKE them listen to you. you DID hire them to work FOR your hubby and 'deserve' answers to any questions you may have as well. they CAN be somewhat intimidating hon, but like i mentioned before? they ARE ONLY HUMAN. and are not always absolutely right about certain decisions either? discussing ALL potential treatment options right now also just IS what is 'supposed to happen",and that TIPS just IS a really good(and in my opinion much better) alternative to what 'they' are planning lucy or i would not be taking the time to even tell you all that i have and am right now.

i for the life of me do NOT understand how or why they would even CONSIDER banding something that is NOT YET BLEEDING?? i most certainly WOULD do some homework on that TIPS procedure, which WOULD take that lifethreat of the P hypertension out of the picture and NOT have to destroy perfectly good blood vessels or put him thru what would be the repeated procedure of what bandings require either. if there is no bleeders yet, why band? that IS the one big question i would ask his doc right now.

if you are having ANY problems either speaking with his treating docs, or they are not listening to you, bring someone WITH you who is much better at simply speaking up and advocating for your hubby(and also FOR YOU) than you are right now. its not that you do not care, your simply being overwhelmed by everything right now and it IS hard enough(been there done THAT one for my son and for myself at times too)to try and discuss things with 'certain types" of docs too at times?? OR, every single hosp out there just DOES have what are called 'patient advocates' now? ask someone from the hosp about the advocates who CAN help you simply speak up to these docs hon. your hubbys overall health and well being depends upon just making the 'appropriate' decisions too right now, and i cannot fathom the 'whys' in doing bandings when there just still IS NO actual bleeds here? it really does not make any sense to me considering the TIPS option being also a good solid possible that will actually also PREVENT those very fragile veins from even rupturing then bleeding in the FIRST place? once that occurs, alot of other crappy stuff also can occur too, but gettting that TIPS place,esp if there just IS NO real bloodflow going thru that P vein anymore will seriously HELP with the eventual bleeds that will naturally come here soon aftet that P vein cannot flow blood anymore and clear ammonia.

i just really would LOVE to hear that you DID ask about the TIPS as a good solid alternative to what would still NOT take away what even would create the bleeds to begin with by rerouting that backed up blood using a shunt/TIPS placed in one of the bigger more solid veins he still has within that liver. THAT and only THAT would relieve the pressure and back up of blood, the bandings will NOT do that. the bandings done over time would actually kill off other 'routes for blood flow" AFTER they rupture and actually would also place even MORE pressure on the ones that are still there and intact too?. the TIPS just DOES take away that pressure and also any real potential FOR rupture and bleeds of what are now higher pressure blood vessels created by that back up of blood. just please, for hubbys sake, try and speak with his docs about that TIPS as a good tried ands turue alternative that has so many more 'pluses' FOR treating that back up than ANY possible banding procedure just even could come close to. this IS a much better alternative lucy to help HIM with what he simply IS dealing with right now, trust me. good luck with this hon,and hang in there. but it IS time to really nail these docs to the wall and make them talk to you and more importantly, answer ALL and any real important questions you simply have as well. they OWE this to you and also hubby too. they cannot actually even 'do' any procedure til YOU and hubby ARE actually just 'fully informed, by law' and also place a signature on that consent form. you CAN also use THAT as leverage too. had to do that one too myself before. you just cannot allow them to keep blowing you off here when you NEED information to even MAKE certain decisions right now. just hang tuff with these docs hon and your hubby will be the better for it. but DO fully research that TIPS hon,it can sooo much better help HIS overall situation than stupid bandings that really were what used to be used wayyy back before they even invented that TIPS that did save my sons, and sooo many others lives just using THAT vs bandings that do nothing BUT kill off bleeding vessels. the tips hits it at the very base and takes away what CREATES the bleeders to begin with. take care lucy and do keep us all posted, Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
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