It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Lupus Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2008, 12:09 PM   #1
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Rosa, CA USA
Posts: 2
leslie5858 HB User
Positive ANA direct test

Hello,
new member here.
I have experienced several general symptoms over the past couple of years.
fatigue, joint pain & stiffness, a full face rash that was diagnosed as roseaca (humm), sunsensitivity and so on.

The latest is that I have noticable lumps (can see & feel) at both ankles
and both wrists. Not painful but achy.

I just has a blood panel done for a life insurance exam and all the typical
stuff is with normal range.

So I went to general doc thinking maybe RA due to matching joint issues but RF and CCP or CRP normal BUT the ANA-direct is 175 (under 40 is considered normal).

Not much info on this direct test...Can anyone give me a comparison of this
result and to what a percentage reading from a standard ANA would be.
Several years ago I had a std ANA result of 1:120, at the time similar physical
symptoms but the doc then said lupus is not considered with anything lower
than 1:600 result.

I have an appt with Rheum. Doc on the 8th of Dec.

I don't have med insurance so am trying to be as practical as I can but
really need to figure this out...starting to impact my everyday life.

thanks to all for your help
Leslie

 
Old 11-21-2008, 06:36 AM   #2
Facilitator
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,960
VeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB User
Re: Positive ANA direct test

Leslie, In addition to RF, were you also tested for anti-ds-DNA, anti-Sm, anti-Ro, anti-La, anti-RNP, anti-histone, antiphospholipid, ETC.? Meaning for the 16 (or so) autoantibodies that may be seen in lupus? Why I'm wondering: RF can be positive in lupus as well as in RA, I *think*...

Also, did your dr. order urinalysis, to check for protein in your urine?

Sorry, I know little about ANA tests. I *think* there are at least two numbering methods, one that uses progression (1:320, 1:640, etc.), and another that uses International Units. In his excellent lupus hardcover, Dr. Daniel Wallace calls "high" either greater than 1:1280, or greater than 30 International Units.

But I've read there are ANA pitfalls, like differences among labs; and that the most reliable are RHEUMATOLOGY LABS. Plus, I've never understood whether ANA can rise & fall with disease activity...

Do you have time to do a little reading before your appt.? There are two excellent lupus hardcovers available in most libraries & large bookstores. One is by Dr. Daniel Wallace (as mentioned above), and the other is by Dr. Robert Lahita. Obviously reading can't substitute for competent doctors, but I think it can make you a wiser patient. Reading certainly drove me to seek a better rheumie, from whom I got the help I needed.

Anyway, good luck with your upcoming rheumie appt. Let us know how you're doing, when you have time, OK? Best wishes, Vee

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 11-24-2008, 06:06 PM   #3
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Henderson, NV, USA
Posts: 55
Triciah614 HB User
Re: Positive ANA direct test

Leslie,

In a pamphlet that I got from my doctor's office (rheumatologists), it does say that the ANA antibodies can rise and fall depending on if you're having a flare-up (rise) or if it's in remission, the antibodies can disappear altogether. That's why it's so hard to get diagnosed if you're not having a flare-up at the time of testing.

I have researched the antibodies a lot and I know that the ANA just tests positive, the titer (1:600, etc.) and the pattern just show how strong the antibodies are and what part of the cells the antibodies are attacking. Some people test positive even when they don't have an autoimmune disease if they're fighting off certain infections.

So, the numbers with a colon in between are just showing that you have the antibodies in your system and how strong they are (after being diluted under fluorescent lights--titer), and what type of pattern you have (speckled, homogenous, nucleolar, cytoplasmic). There's so much information based on the titer and patterns that I am confused on how they know it's RA versus Lupus, etc. For instance, I have the nucleolar pattern, but that's not usually associated with lupus (homogenous and speckled are), but my pattern is associated with systemic sclerosis or hardening of the skin which I DON'T have.

However, the ds-DNA test and the Smith antibody test seem to be VERY lupus specific. Meaning that people with HIGH numbers of these two tests have a 90% chance or greater of having lupus. The more lupus specific tests are the ds-DNA, the Smith Antibody, SS-A, SS-B, RNP ANtibody, Sclero-70 and JO-1 Antibody. My doctor ran these tests and most of them were normal except the ds-DNA. The normal range is 0-4 and my result was 45--meaning there's a good chance that I have lupus. I'm not a doctor, this is only information I have gathered from pamphlets or on my actual lab test results.

Hope this helps you a little bit or at least gives you something to research and look into.

Tricia

 
Old 11-25-2008, 02:49 AM   #4
Facilitator
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,960
VeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB UserVeeJ HB User
Re: Positive ANA direct test

Leslie, good morning. As Tricia just wrote, I've also read about ANA being positive in a wide variety of conditions.

Systemic lupus is typically Dx'ed by accepted criteria established by the American Coll. of Rheumatology criteria. You can find these on one of the "sticky posts" ( = permanent info posts) at the top of the thread list. You generally must meet at least 4 of the 11, at some time, meaning not neecessarily all at once. My doctors told me that once a criteria is observed, it "sticks"---imagine it being checked off in indelible ink. (There are other, milder types of lupus, sometimes called "subsets", for which people may meet fewer than 4.)

In a similar vein, there's a pre-established criteria list for Dx'ing RA I once saw. I remember something like 4 of 6 being required, EXCEPT WHEN you meet one or both of two special ones. i.e., it's also one of those layered, "Chinese menu" definitions.

A good rheumie will take a thorough lifetime medical history, especially since there are things often seen early on in people who later develop lupus. Look for the "sticky post" on "Alternative Criteria" to see these.

While rashes can be important to the Dx of lupus, I was told they don't define the "degree" you have. Instead, it's the *totality* of symptoms & test results that determines whether you have systemic (SLE) vs. one of the lesser "subsets" (like SCLE or DLE, for example). If your rash isn't present at the time of your appt., do you happen to have a photo of it to take along?

Anyway, GOOD LUCK with your upcoming appt. Post some updates when you can, OK? With my best, Vee

 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:16 AM   #5
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 11
MarilynM71 HB User
Re: Positive ANA direct test

Hi leslie,

For some reason, every ANA test I've had (about 6) have been sent to a lab that reports ANA Direct only, so I too found it confusing when all the information talks about 1:320, 1:640, etc..

Mine generally runs around 700 (direct), normal range being 0-100. But one thing I didn't notice until recently was an "H" after the number, which refers to it being "homogenous." That pattern indicator can provide your doctor with a clearer picture, making lupus a "more likely" or "less likely" anyway.

Always ask for copies of your test results so you can see everything. I had another blood test return highly positive as well that they never mentioned, and I would never have known if I hadn't asked for copies.

 
Old 12-11-2008, 12:02 PM   #6
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Rosa, CA USA
Posts: 2
leslie5858 HB User
Re: Positive ANA direct test

Thanks for the supportive comments

Saw the Rheumatologist monday and she ordered rssa & rssb, tsh, and another ana w/ titers and complete blood panel.
Also confirmed arthritis in my knees (ouch)
Next appt Jan 5th.

Again thanks for the kind words and info

 
Old 03-17-2010, 08:34 AM   #7
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 1,463
neveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB Userneveragain444 HB User
Re: Positive ANA direct test

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarilynM71 View Post
Hi leslie,

For some reason, every ANA test I've had (about 6) have been sent to a lab that reports ANA Direct only, so I too found it confusing when all the information talks about 1:320, 1:640, etc..

Mine generally runs around 700 (direct), normal range being 0-100. But one thing I didn't notice until recently was an "H" after the number, which refers to it being "homogenous." That pattern indicator can provide your doctor with a clearer picture, making lupus a "more likely" or "less likely" anyway.

Always ask for copies of your test results so you can see everything. I had another blood test return highly positive as well that they never mentioned, and I would never have known if I hadn't asked for copies.

Meaning what, does homogenous lean toward a diagnosis of Lupus or not? I have always had positive ANA's 1:320 with a homogenous pattern, but one tested negative, even though all the other tests were positive, so this immune system problem was thrown completely out of the window, and I am still very sick. But with that one being negative, my doctor said likely nothing was ever wrong there. But if your in remission, it can go negative, right?

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Venous leak and direct stimulation questions anon4 Sexual Dysfunction Treatment 2 03-09-2010 01:07 PM
Celiac Panel Positive, vitamins normal? vad Immune Disorders 12 11-27-2009 05:16 PM
What’s a “culture proven Lyme (culture or DNA positive)”? 1qwerasdf Lyme Disease 1 11-08-2009 07:17 PM
Coombs positive AIHA--Advise, please. tooyoungtobeill Anemia 7 07-29-2008 02:45 PM
Test positive for herpes and then negative for type 1 and 2? Yquestion Herpes 22 10-31-2007 06:45 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added








TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



VeeJ (173), ladybud (43), AngelicBrat (16), luca689 (7), ksp (6), neveragain444 (6), luvinmusiq (5), brooklyngirl (4), Daisygrace (4), AgedFlowerChild (3)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1180), MSJayhawk (1013), Apollo123 (909), Titchou (856), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (763), ladybud (755), midwest1 (671), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:37 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.com™
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.com™ All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!