Is Lupus a vasculitis disease? If vasculitis is ruled out, can a person still have lupus?
If a sed rate is 30, could that be a possibility to go along with vasculitis?
SLE, Systemic Lupus Erythematosis, is actually considered a connective tissue, auto-immune disease. This means a rogue anti-body, rather than dying off and being excreted once it's role of "warrior" has been completed, instead goes forth and attacks healthy tissue/organs, in this case the target is connective tissue. Connective tissue constitutes a wide range of tissue--all organs use it, as does skin, cartilage, muscle, etc. Vasculitis can be a complication for Lupus, because blood vessels are composed of connective tissue. I don't know about sed rate values regarding Lupus--sorry I can't help you there. Take care and best wishes.
Lupus is not a vasculitis disease, it is an autoimmune disease. And yes if vasculitis is ruled out a person can still have lupus. Lupus and vasulitis are completely seperate diseases, in some cases vasculitis is caused by an autoimmune disease like lupus and other times vasculitis happens in normally healthy people and has no known cause. Also, measuring your sed rate is a way of helping reach a vasculitis diagnosis. It is an older method of testing and is not specific enough to diagnose vasculitis as opposed to an autoimmune condition like lupus. There are other tests for vasculitis that are much more accurate and specific. I hope this helped and have a nice day
I go to my rheumy tomorrow so it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. The reason I'm asking about vasculitis is because the hematologist I saw in January said I definitely don't have vasculitis. But my CFS doc told me yesterday that when I go to the rheumatologist that he will probably check for vasculitis and other diseases like that.
My sed rate is 30 and out of 11 years I have never had one like that. Mine has always been around a 4 or way under 20. So this is very unusual.
Then last year my rheumy said the rash is definitely a connective tissue disease rash. So I have doc's saying everything.
With a sed rate of 30, can that be vasculitis or lupus? Or is that too low?
A sed rate of 30 could be vasculitis or lupus or actually a number of different things. Basically your sed rate means you have inflammation, not an extreme amount at 30, but still it is there which means it could be lupus, vasculitis, etc. The symptoms of vasculitis are very similar to those of lupus like fever, fatigue, weight loss, joint pain, etc. However with a rash that was identified as a connective tissue disease rash I would say that it's not vasculitis. Vasculitis can present rashes but they are definatly not CTD rashes and are usually presented on the legs and are either purplish red spots or hyperpigmentation and can be felt with your fingertips.
I just want to thankyou so much for your posts. They are really helping me tremendously to understand these things that I know nothing about. Thanks so much for your great support and it means the world to me.
I would say I don't have vasculitis then definitely. The hematologist looked at my hands and everything when I saw in January and he said I don't have that. I don't have spots or other rashes on legs or arms or nothing.
The rash is on my face and neck. I'm going to ask the rheumy how he knows it's a connective tissue rash. Do you know how they can tell when they look at it?
It's no problem at all I'm glad you've found some comfort and support through my replies, after all that's what we're all here for
As far as the connective tissue disease rash, there is no way to difinitively diagnose it as a CTD rash by just looking at it. It can be inferred that it is one if it is the malar (butterfly) rash or if the rash happened after exposure to sunlight and then you wouldn't need a skin biopsy which is rather invasive. But the only way you can get a firm diagnosis on the rash would be by having the biopsy done.
If I am in the sun, my rash gets really, really bad within 5 minutes. But when I went to my rheumy last year I asked him if the rash looks more rosacea or malar rash. He said it points more toward lupus rash than rosacea.
It sounds like your doctor knows what he's doing. If your rash looks like a malar rash and gets worse in the sun it's most likely definatly a CTD rash. Has your doctor given you any inclination that you're getting closer to a diagnosis? I sure hope so, the waiting was always the worst part for me.
From my research i have to agree, it is non-vasculitic. Although it does seem that this is not conclusive. Some studies have found evidence to the contrary. I have primarily been looking into neuropsychiatric or CNS Lupus. It seems possible that may be the same things as Hashimoto's encephalopathy. Both of these disease have very similar symptoms. They along with stiffman syndrome and sjogren's are increasingly listed under the umbrella term non-vasculitic autoimmune inflammatory meningoencephalitis.
I think tomorrow he will be able to get a better picture of what is happening. My doctor faxed over my labwork to him that I just had done last week. He's concerned with my low neutrophil count because it was under last time at 0.5 in November and it's 0.9 and normal is 1.8. So that's still going to be a concern to him. Of course my white count is always low.
Now all of a sudden the sed rate jumped to 30 which never happened before. Also what's really strange is for the past two labs from last November and this month the ANA patternjust shows Nucleolar. All the other years it always showed two patterns. It was always speckled and homogenous. But my ANA is always 320 and now it just shows one pattern.
Postie, hi. Like the others, I also understand that lupus & vasculitis (blood vessel inflammation) are two different conditions. I think ANCA blood test & angiograms are done if systemic vasculitis is suspected.
There's a mild form of vasculitis called "cutaneous vasculitis", not considered dangerous unless skin breaks down. I have some on both ankles that burns & tingles, esp. in hot shower. I check that skin regularly, is all.
Re: lupus rashes, I had deep-punch biopsies done by dermatologists & dermatopathologists. The punch is examined microscopically for immune complex deposits along the dermal/epidermal junction. As a second step, immune stain tests can next be performed on the punch, because lupus rashes often (but not always) fluoresce in these tests, in a way that's seen ONLY in lupus rashes. I was a good candidate for deep-punch, because my rashes were on upper arms & torso. I don't know if deep-punches are done on *facial* rashes, due to needing skin with "depth" & also because the test leaves a scar.
Hope this helps some. Did you get any further ahead yesterday? I hope so! Best wishes, Vee
It's very strange to me that you ANA patterns changed. As I'm sure you may know speckled and homogenous patterns are almost always indicative of lupus. Homogenous ANA is most closely associated with lupus, discoid lupus, autoimmune hepatitis, and rheumatoid arthritis while speckled patterns are associated with lupus, scleroderma, and sjogren's syndrome. However Nucleolar is usually associated with extensive scleroderma, polymyositis/scleroderma overlap syndrome, and primary pulmonary hypertension. I've never heard of an ANA pattern changing before. I would ask your doctor about that and if you get an answer about it I'd love to learn about it. I wish you all the best
I went to the rheumy today and I have a diagnosis of lupus.
It's very strange that after 10 years, my ANA pattern would automatically change to just one pattern both times I have labwork. It stayed nucleolar. Even though I have nothing of scleroderma so that's the weird part. But people have said also that with nucleolar pattern it can also be lupus.
I'm so sorry to hear that you have lupus. I'm sure it is a relief that you finally have a firm diagnosis though. If you ever need anything at all feel free to ask. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Hi, Cindy Lou. I'm sorry you were Dx'ed w/lupus but glad that you know, finally, what's been happening to you. What about treatment: are you starting on something? And were you told to limit sun exposure? (You'd described earlier how quickly you get a facial reaction after being in sun.) Here's hoping for better days ahead for you, & soon. Bye & best wishes, Vee
Postie, you ask a good question, what symptoms & findings generate "sufficient need" for treatment. You've mentioned elevated sed rate & skin photosensitivity (your rashes). Do you hurt or feel fatigued? Etc.?
You said your blood specialist didn't diagnose vasculitis. Did either rheumie or he say *why* they think your neutrophils go so low at times?
I think drs. don't prescribe systemic treatment for skin problems alone *if* you can stop rashes with sunblock & avoidance and aren't experiencing anything else "big".
But, gee---did your rheumie at least call for you to come in for periodic checkups? I hope others chip in soon on this. Take good care. Thinking of you, Vee
I don't hurt but for 11 years I have the fatigue from my illness. My one specialist said that possibly the reason for the jump in sed rate is that possibly it was left on the counter for a longer time period before they checked it.
My rhuemy also yesterday checked me and said I do not have vasculitis. He didn't explain about why my neutrophils go low. The only thing I know is that people with Lupus can have that problem but I don't know why.
He did the urinalysis yesterday and the major bloodwork for Lupus as he does every year. I see him once a year.
Of course, that would change if something showed up on this labwork.