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Old 09-30-2011, 09:17 AM   #1
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Weird rashes / skin ... please help

a little history. went to the dr for emotion outbursts and roaming joint pain, had a pos. ana test (nucleolar pattern)... by the time I got to the rheum I had all neg tests (cbc w/diff, ana, ssa and ssb, sed rate)

Now I am in my 6th month of joint pain... now constant in my hands, knees.
tendonitis in both elbows, still have roaming joint pain in other joints. my left hand is numb more often than not.

NOw I am getting what appears to be spontaneous scars on my face in the dimple of my chin, between my eyebrows and on the right side of my nose on my cheek.
rash on face is still there as is the v rash on my chest.

have little bruises all over my legs without reason.

now am getting what looks like misquito bites that turn into little rough patches of skin with a red ring around it and another ring further out

white bumps on my shoulder and neck are now on my back... these are painless small lumps without pigment.

What is going on... please advise. I am so afraid to go back to the dr and be treated like a hypocondriac that I just dont want to gol.!

 
Old 09-30-2011, 09:29 AM   #2
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

I also get livedo reticularis when I'm cold (which is often) and I also have alot of broken blood vessels. If there is a way to id be glad to show some photos ...

 
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:07 PM   #3
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

I would go back to the doc, I really would. It may be something different will show up this time.

 
Old 10-01-2011, 03:54 AM   #4
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

FlowerChild, when you say "spontaneous scars", do you mean permanent? Discoid lesions can cause permanent scarring &/or depigmentation.

I've seen pics of "tumid lupus" in the V-neck area. I think someone here reported being dx'ed with a tumid rash several years ago; you could try searching on "tumid" or "TLE".

I had nonscarring SCLE annular lesions, upper arms & back. In *immature form*, they were merely red raised papules that came & went, lasting 2-3 weeks. My immature stage lasted 4 years. Later I was told that the duration of the immature stage varies a lot & that some people skip it entirely, commencing with the mature form...

In *mature form* those same papules reappeared, expanded outward into perfect circles with red rims and clear centers, then expanded further outward losing circularity. Eventually I was a crazy-quilt of all stages simultaneously: red papules, perfect circles, and large irregular ameoba-like shapes that intersected one another because I had so many.

QUESTION: Do your "red ring lesions" change shape? I *suspect* ringworm doesn't change much, while SCLE lesions do, i.e., in mature form, they tend to lose their circularity in their final stage, right before they fade.

Of course only a doctor can say for sure, but it can't hurt to read! Have you looked for articles describing ALL the lupus-specific rashes? There are MANY more than the two mentioned in the ACR criteria (only discoid and malar appear there). I think you should seek someone affiliated with a teaching hospital. Keep us posted! All my best, Vee

 
Old 10-01-2011, 11:09 AM   #5
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

VeeJ, Im not sure if they are permanent. The first one showed up in between my eyebrows 2 weeks ago. It is a small have circle, raised and looks like a tiny scar in the shape of a c. NO redness, like a healed scar. The next showed up a bit over a week ago between my nose and my cheek. it is a line that follows a crease (crease / wrinkle....) it is about an inch long. also looks like a raised healed white scar. then I noticed one on my chin on a 'dimple' there below my mouth. Now I have one on my ring finger of my right hand... also a line about 1/2" long. None of them have changed, faded or anything since i've noticed them.

The other marks start out as bumps that are red and look kinda like a misquito bite or a pimple... they do not itch... the red kinds spreads out and turns into a shiney almost scar looking patch with red 'lines' around it... reminds me of ringworm but isn't exactly round or nearly so defined at the edges, mine isn't itchy... is pink but not red and isn't raised ... It started on my forearm. I now have one on each forarm, have a bump by my elbow, one on my chin and one on my neck that all look just like the one that was on my forearm on turned into whatever it is now.

I googled SCLE annular lesions and thislooks like that in a way but center is thicker...kinda like the scar things and it has expanded outward and is growing lighter as it goes. ... like the 'large irregular ameoba-like" that you discribe. When I noticed the second one starting on my other arm I made a dr appt... go in monday and am going to ask that my pcp biopsys them... if they are still there.






QUESTION: Do your "red ring lesions" change shape? I *suspect* ringworm doesn't change much, while SCLE lesions do, i.e., in mature form, they tend to lose their circularity in their final stage, right before they fade.

Yes they change shape and it is fading...

Thanks VeeJ, I sure hope that I can get some info from my dr... these 'scars' im growing are scaring me to death. since i had a nucleolar pattern in my postive ana I looked up scleroderma... and the marks on my face seem to be described exactly in that info..

strange that since I did have the cucleolar pattern that my dr didn't do any of the advanced tests for scleraderma.....

will let you know.

 
Old 10-03-2011, 01:04 PM   #6
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

Went to the dr for my newest in WEIRDNESS SYMPTOMS ...
GOOD NEWS (she say's with newfound hope and alot of fear.....),

My PCP has did some research (and asked a co-worker - another dr- , who is a lupus patient, who the best rheum. in the area is.... and is getting me an appt!!!!

Since my visit from HE** with that last rhuemy I have been back to my PCP several times and he still believes that I have lupus! He said that he feels I should see a dr that 'has more experience with lupus and connective tissue" than the last guy he sent me to to "get a second opinion"!!

I'm hopeful that this is my lucky break!

Meanwhile my PCP said he believes that these rashes are from lupus and that it is simply a matter of time before I am dianosed. He said that he can now document 6 months of continuous joint pain, rashes, photosensitivity ect and that he has been assured that this new rheumy will find out what is going on with me!

I am nervously hopeful, remembering my last experience makes me want to shriek.. but still, hopeful!!!

 
Old 10-03-2011, 01:13 PM   #7
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

YAY! Sounds like you've moved a big step closer to answers & help. So hope this is your turning point, so keep us posted. Fingers crossed for you, Vee

 
Old 10-03-2011, 05:31 PM   #8
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

Thanks VeeJ, I am hopeful but still.....

I find conflicting info that since my last ANA was negative, that there is no way I have lupus... what else could cause all of this?

I don't understand why my Dr would want a second opinion since my last ANA was neg,.. .it is all so confusing.



By the way VeeJ, how are you feeling? You seem to be such a anchor of knowledge and support to so many people, I wonder how your holding up!

Last edited by mod85; 10-09-2011 at 06:44 PM.

 
Old 10-04-2011, 06:50 AM   #9
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

FlowerChild, if I were you, I'd not focus overmuch on ANA. Honestly, I think DOCTORS focus too much on ANA. It has pitfalls & exceptions; and relying too much on ANA might mean a dr. is considering only classic SLE, and not considering its variants & close cousins. ANA is hard to measure; results can vary from lab to lab; and I've read statements that it can rise & fall with flares, but I don't know any particulars on that, alas.

There are other forms of lupus in which ANA isn't positive. Easiest example is DLE (discoid lupus). Some people who present with DLE do progress to full systemic disease (I've seen estimates of both 5% and 10%).
Another example is Ro-lupus, in which people can meet 4 or more ACR criteria for SLE yet ANA remains negative (but anti-Ro is positive.)

And there are all those rarer "variant" lupus rashes, meaning NOT discoid or malar. There's much less written about these for patients to find & read, so I don't know in which circulating autoantibodies are typically seen. In terms of degree, some of these patients may be closer to "subacute SLE" than to "cutaneous DLE", meaning they have more than skin problems going on.

And there are conditions I call "close cousins" to lupus, for lack of a better term, that involve skin & some of the same symptoms. I know people who went thru this scenario, whose initial drs. ruled out SLE then "tidily" concluded the patient had NOTHING. (The people I know turned out to have dermatomyositis, systemic vasculitis, and psoriatic arthritis.)

In fairness to doctors, though, what a tough area of medicine this is! Think about how hard it is to trap a condition whose symptoms & lab results come & go. How much harder it is to diagnose less acute patients. How many rash varieties there are. Etc.

I'm my same old self, thank you for asking! I've avoided UV & taken Plaquenil for 10+ yrs. I still get very tired & hurt a lot some days, with glimpses of my old nastier problems, but am much better than in my bad old days. Anyway let us know what happens next for you, OK? Sending best wishes, Vee

 
Old 10-09-2011, 06:41 PM   #10
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Re: Weird rashes / skin ... please help

I am with Veej on this.... there are far to many variants of Lupus that show negeative results for Ana issues. I am one of those ppl who have Tumidus Lupus and Dle also with no issues in my Ana. My rashes typically start out looking like a typical pimple then spread out like hives, they r very itchy. When a stracth test is done it shows up as a yeast infection but when a proper biopsy is done it shows as TLE and some test possitive for DLE.

 
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