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Old 10-03-2005, 07:03 PM   #1
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DuPrey84 HB User
Good news plus some lyme arthritis questions

Hi everyone, I haven't posted in awhile bc I've been pretty busy with school and running. Yes, I am back running and actually running some of my best times for cross-country despite having to keep taking abx (and occasionally taking nsaids when my hip gets really bad). My lingering arthritis (which has switched from left to right hip) though has me confused on what to do. Apparently research published by Dr. Steere has shown evidence of the bacteria evading antibiotics in the synovial fluid of joints but is a strong advocate of terminating antibiotics due to the body's reaction to the bacterial components (OspA etc).

-Are there antibiotics which can reach bacteria in the synovial fluid?
-Is there a link between chronic inflammation of a joint and the closing of the joint space (osteoarthritis)?
-How long can bacterial components (Osp A) stay in your system and cause an immune response?

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Old 10-04-2005, 05:28 AM   #2
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Re: Good news plus some lyme arthritis questions

Yay, you are running, that's fantastic! I wish I could do that, but my hips flare up when I do. I am so happy for you though, this is good news.

As for your questions, they are complicated and very good questions which I've tried to answer for myself in the past, unfortunately we can only speculate. There are no definitive answers, but some theories which make sense. Here's the one that made the most sense to me:

The antibiotics can reach the synovial fluid, but may not necessarily destroy the Bb when it gets there, due to the morphing and lack of cell wall the Bb may potentially present. Over time, the antibiotic should be able to take care of the majority Bb (something like 85%), while the hope is that the immune system will address the remaining 15% of them. Unfortunately, even when the Bb is destroyed, there often remains undegraded antigenic materials which create inflammation of the joint. This can go on for long periods, even coming and going over many years as the body reacts to the antigens. So that even when living spirochetes are no longer present, undegraded antigenic material may still keep the inflammation going.

In my experience, the bacterial components can co-exist for decades, usually causing immune response flare-ups in times of stress to the body. Our bodies are designed to fight anything when working properly, however most people's bodies are not working to prime capacity due to one reason or another, usually toxicity of the digestive system, lymph system or entire body systems.

I know plenty of people who have gone through rigorous lyme treatement and then endured a time of "chronic residual" joint pain and then finally gotten well with no signs of lyme. I guess living in Connecticut, I am exposed to more lyme than some, so I get to witness a lot of success stories, but also plenty of sickness too. If you're wondering if you'll ever be completely free of all lyme symptoms, I certainly believe you can.

Old 10-04-2005, 07:02 AM   #3
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Roman77 HB User
Re: Good news plus some lyme arthritis questions

duprey i am sooo happy for you! youre out and running!!!

that is soooo wonderful! i am so glad that you posted your definitely gives us that are still struggling hope that we'll be joining the ranks with you soon. go gettem!

i wish i could add anything to your questions, but those are things that i wounder as well so i'll leave it to those who have more wisdom....thanks sleeper for your insight, what you posted makes a lot of sense. just hope we can get our bodies healthy enough to kill off that last 15 or so percent on our own. here's to detoxing and eating healthy. cheers.

keep making great strides duprey..

"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, and faithful in prayer." - Romans 12:12

Old 10-04-2005, 10:55 AM   #4
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DuPrey84 HB User
Re: Good news plus some lyme arthritis questions

Thanks so much for your responses! Out of curiousity, as for those people ((have gone through treatement and then endured a time of "chronic residual" joint pain and then finally gotten well with no signs of lyme)) about how long were they treated and then how long did it take for the joint pain to resolve?

Old 10-04-2005, 06:39 PM   #5
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sleeperwoken HB User
Re: Good news plus some lyme arthritis questions

All different time frames, none of them too quickly though unfortunately. Some went many years but an average seems to be two years treatment, one year residual inflammation issues. The method of treatment doesn't seem to have any bearing on it (with respect to IV versus oral antibiotics). Personally, I believe a lot of it has to do with how strong your immune system is. I don't think you can rely on antibiotics to take care of the problem and then just go off them and not do anything to build the body up so that it can take over where antibiotics left off. Lyme takes such a toll on all the body systems and it takes a long time to get back to normal.

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