Help me please.
Two years ago my doc ran a bowen because of unexplained INfertility. My serial dilution was 1:64
Well, without additional symptoms I shrugged it off.
Fast forward--one.five years ago = foot pain severe for months(declined after trigger point therapy by chiro to neck) and tailbone paine (this resolved also)
I thought... if I did have lyme I beat it good by cutting sugar, eating healthy.So....
REDO of Bowen three days ago...tests in today= 1:128 serial dilution value = highest!!!
Despite this I just have a hard time believing I have lyme as otherwise I"m feeling okay (except for a few items).
What should be my next step....?? I just am having a hard time knowing if I should trust this test. Two years ago mydoc also followed the bowen with a western blot from IGeneX.
Thanks for any help. I"m pretty much disillusioned, to say the least and don't want to do antibiotics because I'm on hormones nad am afraid that doubling up with antibiotics will increase my cancer risk. Lyme, it seems, I can live with, I guess?
Last edited by CAdreamin; 05-12-2006 at 08:20 PM.
Reason: wrote 'fertility' and meant 'infertility'
First of all, welcome to this wonderful board! So sorry to hear that you are having problems.
When you said you had the Bowen test, I am "assuming" you had the Q-RiBb test? From what I understand, that is an extremely accurate test.
It's good that you cut sugar out of your diet and starting eating healthy foods as that is very important, but that alone won't kill lyme bacterias or spirochetes.
Based on your symptoms, you could very well have Lyme and at least one or more of it's co-infections. What other symptoms are you experiencing now?
Is there a specific reason you are taking hormones? I don't mean to be nosy, I am just trying to understand.
I would not ignore this as Lyme is a progressive disease and gets worse with time when left untreated. I was misdiagnosed for 5 years and lost the use of my legs for a year or so.
Many people don't want to believe they have Lyme which I understand completely because it's scary.
In my case, I knew there was something really wrong with me and I was happy to get diagnosed with Lyme and one of it's coinfections, Ehrlichiosis because I knew what I was dealing with so I could get better, which I did.
Lyme is curable when treated!
I truly suggest you see a Lyme Literate Medical Doctor (LLMD) and get a clinical diagnosis based on your symptoms as well as your previous lyme tests.
If you tell us where you live, we can give you names of LLMDs close to you.
Thanks for your reply. I need to correct my post---I have infertility, specifically ovarian failure and take estrogen and progesterone.
My other symptoms? When I stretch apart my legs it hurts up inside the pelvis; my spine hurts if I press certain places but otherwise okay. I ve foot pain taht's got a lot better and my tailbone gets kinda painful sometimes. My legs get tired when I go up stairs but since my estrogen's low (and my heart checked out okay a couple years ago) I figured...oh well. About five months ago my neck hurt pretty bad and some weird stuff happened like once I heard a clock chime after it had stopped and I was staring straight at it. I thought I was going insane and gave the clock away. Also, for about a month off and on my neck would go into this weird thing and my head would stetch tot he side or my eye would twitchy in thde night. I went to hte doc who said I had anxiety and the whole thing did go away. I don't have this now, just the pelvis pain, foot but better.
I live in Kansas City and really don't want to travel outside this city. I think I saw a lyme oriented doc the first time who told me I had lyme but I didn't believe it. I just don't want to take a whole bunch of antbiotics as I read it increases cancer risk and I figure somehow I should be able to kick this myself, maybe if I eat differently.
Anyhow please let me know who you would recommend. Can a person get over lyme with something other than antibiotics? I've got a book by a nutritionist named Patrick Quillen. Could I maybe not have lyme; could this test be false? Thanks, CAdreamin
I would like to welcome you also. I agree with Mickie, I don't know alot about the Bowen Test. I had the igenex, along with quest and Labcorp. With the results that you had and think that you need to see a LLMD. I'm in NC so can't help you with a Dr name. Someone will come on and advise you.
You really don't want to ignore Lyme. It don't go away. It will get worse over time. You want to check on the co-infections also. I tested positive for 3 of them.
I can understand your concern over the hormone and antibotic mix. But I think a LLMD can best advise you. Please let us know more about yourself. We are all here for you.
Thank you Marsha and 6Blues,
I am so glad I found this site. Thank you for the responses.THis Bowen test said I was negative for "ehrlichia" and 'babesia" or said 'none seen'; I had a western blot a couple years back from IGeneX which was positive, I think. I have to try to find my paperwork. Anyhow, yes, it was the Q-RIBb test. My current symptoms are my infertility (without estrogen I'm face down in the dirt out of it), foot pain when I walk on concrete (but it's better) and pain in my pubic area (sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth), and pain when I press on a couple places on my ribs, spine. I guess too I'm not as peppy as I wish I was. I still am havign a hard time believing I could have lyme. I think I'll buy some olive leaf extract tomorrow. Please, yes, do let me know any thoughts about the test and docs. Thanks, CAdreamin
this is very similar to my own experience. I have had lyme for a long time and there were years when I was doing pretty well except for hormone problems. I had one of my ovaries taken out at age 21 and had my kids right away because of the doctors recommendation, they said that I would have trouble having kids the longer I waited because of hormone problems.
Two years ago, my bowen reading was 1:128 and by that time all of my hormones were off, including pregnenolone, DHEA, estrogen, and testosterone. I believe it was a progressive down spiraling for years.
I am not a doctor, and I hope you see a lyme doctor soon, but my opinion is that these are not two separate problems. Personally, I believe that your hormone imbalances may stem from lyme. I know mine did. Lyme directly affects the pituitary, thyroid, adrenal and many other parts of the body. All of these affect hormones.
Good luck, let us know how things work out for you.
I agree with Sleeperwoken, I also think your hormone problems are caused from Lyme.
I know many people who had miscarriages because of Lyme, very heartbreaking but those Lyme bacteria's really effect one's body when not treated.
Once again, I really understand your fear about having Lyme because of all the horrible things said about this disease. Some are true, many are not.
You have choices which is a wonderful, you can use "conventional" antibiotics and see a reputable doctor in your area by the name of Dr. Charles Crist who is in Springfield, Missouri or you can choose alternative medicine like I did as well as Jeanne (Wackowoman). We both have had excellent results using natural medicines to get better.
You may want to consider stopping the estrogen and progesterone as they play havoc with your system and I don't think it's good for Lyme.
I always suggest that members buy as many books about Lyme Disease as education is one the best defenses to this disease. The first book I recommend is "Everything You Need to Know About Lyme Disease and Other Tick-Borne Disorders, 2nd Edition" by Karen Vanderhoof-Forschner.
The 2nd book I recommend is "Beating Lyme Disease Using Alternative Medicine....." by Dr. David Jernigan.
I also recommend this book for people who take "conventional" antibiotics because Dr. Jernigan explains how the toxins affects our bodies, how to get rid of them, natural medicines that Dr. J. himself designed to kill lyme bacterias, detoxing, and so much more. By the way, Dr. Jernigan had Lyme himself.
Everyone's choice of treatment is a personal decision, you have to do what you feel is right for you, not to please someone else, but follow your own heart.
As far as Dr. Crist in Springfield, that is the closest LLMD to Kansas City. Most members here have to travel long distances to see their doctor.
On the other hand, if you choose to use natural medicines, I highly recommend using Dr. Jernigan's medicines as they have helped me and Jeanne tremendously and also cure coinfections as well as lyme.
Thank you Sleeperwoken and Denise for this good info.
Denise, I don't think I can stop my hormones because I would have zero estrogen and risk bone loss and cardiovascular degradation as estrogen dialates and keeps blood vessels elastic. Without it I feel like the elixer of life is being drained from my body. I do think though it's playing a role here; I was better when I had my own hormones.
I'll look into Crist.
I've been calling all around health food stores in my city and googling; came up with a couple other names of docs
(1) Dr. Carol Ryser (this one gal told me she'd seen her for lyme and took antibiotics) and
(2) Dr. Brewer. Does anyone know about these two in Kansas City?
I'll get the Jernigan book--ordered it already. Thanks again, CAdreamin' (a CA beach away from ticks is sounding mighty fine to me right now!!!!!)
Last edited by CAdreamin; 05-14-2006 at 06:40 PM.
Reason: remove smiley
So sorry I've missed this post. I also had the Bowen test. And it is accurate. Dr. David Jernigan (the book you ordered) is in Wichita. Very close for you! I live in Oregon and flew back to Wichita 3 different times for a total of 7 weeks. He treats everthing but has become a LLMD. He himself had Lyme so he knows a lot about it. He only treats naturally with a big emphasis on detoxing and strenghing the body so it can go after illness you have. I am glad you ordered his book, he also has a website.
Jeanne, thank you so much. I should have the book within about a week. What did your Bowen test show--level?
How much did Jernigan's treatment reduce the level?
This is sounding like a good way to go providing it has long-term positives or lack of this stuff coming back.
I wrote a reply to you on another thread but will add more on this one. You said you do hormone therapy and Dr. Ryser addresses that issue as well. I use a hormone compound that Dr. Ryser made specifically for me. I agree with the others, I'll bet that it is Lyme related. You will surprised how many of your symptoms are! I, too, had the eye twitching, brain fog thing as well. I've had 2 Bowen tests...my initial test which gave a 1:128 on Babesia and a 1:64 on Lyme. She treated the Babesia first and got that to a 0, then concentrated on the Lyme, which, my that time had jumped to 1:128 as well. Yes, there are a LOT of antibiotics involved as well as supplements, etc. Relax and trust your LLMD. Getting rid of the lyme is important and your doctor (LLMD) will not put you through any unnecessary risk! Good Luck!
Thank you. Okay, now I've positive confirmation of this Ryser. I wonder now who to call, Ryser or Crist?
Anyhow, I'm still waiting on the Jernigan book and might try this Witchita doc first. Like I said, I really am afraid of antibiotics.
Thanks again and PLEASE let me know any more bout Ryser that you know as she appears to be closer to my place.
My Bowen reading was 1:32. Which sounds really low. but as my naturopath started treating me, the Lyme was dying, but as it died it was producing so much ammonia (and I was too weak to detox from the ammonia)and my lever started shutting down. I was very ill the first time I arrived in Kansas. When we left for that trip I wasn't sure I would make it home again. So the 1:32 didn't mean much other than I had Lyme.
Dr. Jernigan has a little bit different approach than some Dr.'s. He does not recommend being retested. What he does is get your body strong enough to go after the Lyme (or any infection or problem) itself. It is not the Dr. that cures us, it is our own bodies. The Dr. can only facilate in this process. As your body gets stronger and stronger it is possible that the number of the bowen test could still test positive (because your body would, even though winning the fight, still have Lyme) He has seen people that were doing really well physically retest themselves, discover they still had Lyme and they immediately got sick again. Our mind is such a powerful factor in beating this disease. So his measure is how we are feeling. Does that make sense?
so yes the results are long term. As with any ailment we have to keep our bodies, our minds, and our spirits strong. One year later I am doing so much better. I had severe brain damage from the ammonia so I still have a problem sleeping (both the brain dr. and Dr. J are positive I will heal from this and I am too). Once I get the sleep thing kicking in I will fly.
I never used an abx, but I am on a drug for my brain to help it heal.