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Old 04-17-2007, 05:45 AM   #1
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anyman HB User
Is it posible to undergo Testosterone replacement and NOT shut down the body (HPTA)?

Despite much research and time spent I remain somewhat puzzled. Seeing as how I have secondary hypogonadism, I've pretty much resigned myself to eventually needing TRT of one kind or another.

Here's the problem: What I've read tells me that TRT pretty much always shuts down the body's own system for good, even with hcg supplements which keep the testicles at least working.

Is there ANY way to keep one's own circuits working, so to speak? I don't mind the TRT routine so much-it's the permanent shutdown I am having tremendous difficulty accepting. Then again, I also don't like waking up every morning with inexplicable irritation and ****** off at the whole whole world as I am now.......

 
Old 04-17-2007, 01:03 PM   #2
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Re: Is it posible to undergo Testosterone replacement and NOT shut down the body (HPT

The hypothalmus/pituitary are more likely to come back to life than the testicles are after a long period of T replacement. But there is no guarantee that it will. In your case since you have secondary the part of the HPTA in the brain is likely broken anyway. You should make sure your HPTA is not broken due to estrogen levels too high and pituitary adenoma first. If that is the reason then it's possible to fix it. Try taking clomid for a week to a month to see if LH levels rise.....that may indicate the problem was too much estrogen. You can also test for total estrogen and estradiol.

If we knew how to keep the hypothalmus from shutting down then that would probably be the cure we are looking for. So the answer to your question is probably no.....unless you have estrogen that is too high or a pituitary adenoma in which case you might be able to solve your problem without T replacement.

 
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Old 04-17-2007, 03:14 PM   #3
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Thanks, HF--Got some some follow up /comments

That's what I somewhat expected. I'm sure you can understand my desire to leave no stone unturned.

I've got an appt w/ the supposed specialist @ Mass General Hospital on Aprl 24. I've already contacted Dr. Shippen's office, who is away next week. His office told me to check out MGH first and then call him upon his return. I fear it's coming to that. Local Dr's are useless.

Curious- Am I better off w/ Shippen or the "Dr. John" in Michigan. I can drive to Shippen, although it's a distance. Michigan would require a flight.
As always, thanks much for your help and comments. Truly appreciated.

 
Old 04-17-2007, 03:44 PM   #4
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Re: Is it posible to undergo Testosterone replacement and NOT shut down the body (HPT

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayfarmer View Post
You should make sure your HPTA is not broken due to estrogen levels too high and pituitary adenoma first.

Can you talk a bit more about the high-estrogen/HPTA link? I haven't heard about this one before.

 
Old 04-17-2007, 04:48 PM   #5
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Re: Is it posible to undergo Testosterone replacement and NOT shut down the body (HPT

I have never seen Dr John in Michigan. I think both are top notch. If Shippen is closer I would go to him. I'm very happy with him.

Estrogen is very similar to testosterone. The hypothalmus has testosterone receptors that are used to sense if your testosterone level is high enough or not. If not high enough GnRH is sent by the hypothalmus to the pituitary to tell it to send more LH to the testicles. The LH will tell the testicles to make more T. The problem is because estrogen is so similar to testosterone in chemical nature it can bind to the receptors in the hypothalmus meant for testosterone. This can trick the hypothalmus into thinking T is high enough when it is not. The end result is your LH is too low leading to low testosterone. Some possible causes of high estrogen include excessive body fat, high alcohol consumption, zinc deficiency among other things.

 
Old 04-17-2007, 09:35 PM   #6
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Okay, HF, I get part of what you say, but am uncertain as to the specific measurement

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayfarmer View Post
I have never seen Dr John in Michigan. I think both are top notch. If Shippen is closer I would go to him. I'm very happy with him.

If not high enough GnRH is sent by the hypothalmus to the pituitary to tell it to send more LH to the testicles. The LH will tell the testicles to make more T. The problem is because estrogen is so similar to testosterone in chemical nature it can bind to the receptors in the hypothalmus meant for testosterone.....Some possible causes of high estrogen include excessive body fat, high alcohol consumption, zinc deficiency among other things.

The theory I get, but remain puzzled as to what would cause this. I am not fat, nor do I consume much alcohol. Don't know about zinc.

Also, what numbers or other indicia would a person look for? In other words, how is an excess of estrogen found and what does/can one do about it?

Gotta say, this whole thing is very puzzling. And then some.....

Of course, my thanks again for your time and effort.

 
Old 04-18-2007, 08:49 AM   #7
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Re: Is it posible to undergo Testosterone replacement and NOT shut down the body (HPT

Hayfarmer, are you a professional? It seems your answers are very explicit and to the point. One thing I was wondering about, is the use of letters to describe the tests. Why can't you spell out the letters to more clearly explain to novices what these are? In any event I for one find your answers very informative, but somewhat unclear. If I asked my Dr. about these test, he would want to know what I was talking about. I too take Testrol gel @ 5mg. every other day. I plan on going to a Uroligest for a complete exam. Libdo very low and sex very seldom, maybe once a month if possible. Thanks again for your imput.

 
Old 04-18-2007, 08:59 AM   #8
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Re: Is it posible to undergo Testosterone replacement and NOT shut down the body (HPT

To look for excess estrogen you just need a blood test for "total estrogen" and "estradiol" (also called E2). The test will show maximum values so you can easily tell if they are too high. Other things that can cause high estrogen include altered liver function, age related increase in aromatase enzyme (this enzyme converts T to estrogen), some prescription drugs (diuretics is one), exposure to estrogen-enhancing food, environmental exposure to estrogen. Looking for high estrogen is just something you need to do to rule it out. It is not uncommon to have low T because you have high estrogen but the majority of cases do not fall into this category.

Chaz, I'm not a professional in the medical field. I just have hypogonadism and after years of bad treatment I got sick of it and started learning all about it. I switched to a new better doctor and decided to help others to avoid the poor treatment most men get when they suffer from this. I don't know which tests you mean but if you give me a list of acronyms I may have used I will be happy to tell you what each means. If your doctor does not recognize them though you are probably going to the wrong doctor for this disease. Based on your dose of gel I would guess your T level is way too low. You should keep copies of all your blood tests for when you change doctors and for your own use.

Last edited by hayfarmer; 04-18-2007 at 09:17 AM.

 
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