It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Men's Health Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-07-2008, 03:59 PM   #1
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

For anyone curious how 100 mg a week can work. I knew I was feeling much improved, and the muscle growth (with hard work) was surprising.

After eight weeks of 100 mg of test cyp a week, my total went from 391 to 1262 ng/dl. Free went from 69 to 291 pg/ml. E2 from <20 to 48. % free is 2.3. DHEA from 47 to 379 (with 25 mg a week).

Seriously, I almost had to laugh when I saw this. This was 30 hours post injection, so maybe as high as it is going to get. I feel wonderful at this level.
The last week or so I have not felt like napping after work and have hit the weights with intensity, am back to working overtime, sleeping well, the memory loss is gone, and I want to enjoy life again. I feel as mentally sharp at bedtime as in the morning.

There can be no doubt that elevating these levels, which had dropped over 50 % in the last seven years, has worked wonders for me. I am not nervous or anxious, laught more, and want to do things again.

I sincerely hope my doctor only has me start an aromatase inhibitor. I started hcg last week. I can't and don't want to feel any better or have more energy.

Maybe the E2 just needs to come down, which would increase the t, then maybe he will think it is too high. There is no bloating or acne.

Yes, there are a handful of tests that will be important in the future, but right now, I couldn't be happier, and don't want to change a thing. The DHT result was not available. Truly an amazing hormone, and a wonderful experience to this point.

Bob

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 02-08-2008, 11:59 AM   #2
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA USA
Posts: 21
mac1968 HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

Please keep me updated on how you are doing on your TRT. I am from the Omaha area and have experienced similar symptoms to you. My T went down to the 500s and free at 86 so I am bordering the need for TRT. I also had a TSH of 4.50 so I started to treat my thyroid thinking it may solve some of the low free T results. My LH is around 3 and I hope that may increase as I get my thyroid under control. Do you feel better daily on the TRT or do your days vary?

 
Old 02-08-2008, 04:35 PM   #3
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

mac1968,

I hope you are able to find out if you need TRT. A good doctor will take into account a variety of factors and give you your options, then work with you if you do the TRT.

Everyday is pretty much the same for me. This morning (Friday)I woke up thinking it might be Monday. This is because I haven't felt an accumulation of stress that lets me know it must be Friday, the week has been seamless. I have been working overtime too, and hitting the weights again.

I found that when taking testosterone cypionate for the first several months that I would be worrying about which day it was in the week, like, day of shot, two days after shot, three days before next shot, etc...because I figured I would feel a sort of let down. After about six weeks I didn't think about it anymore since there was no apparent slide. So, as of now, there is no change-just that it is easier to laugh and want to enjoy different things. I can't talk about many other people's experiences, but I would hope that everyone would feel that testosterone makes them feel healthier and more alive. I don't feel buzzed at all, just plain as good as I could feel.

Today I told someone that if it cost me some years at the end of my life, it wold be worth it to be able to feel the way I have lately, and enjoy the years ahead. At some point, a person has to weigh not doing anything against the possible benefits and risks of TRT. There are risks associated with almost anything.

Other than my E2, I get the impression my doctor is okay with the high levels since he noted that it was okay since it was 30 hours post injection. This is what I was shooting for, okay, didn't expect it this high but this is how I want to feel and he knows this is what I was targeting.

I just found out today that my DHT was 1310 pg/ml on a scale of 155.0-553.0. I am now afraid to scratch me head for fear I will pull clumps of hair out. I was and am concernced about high DHT, which is why I went with the shots. Strange, but the range also says that the range is not intended for clinical use and has not been approved by the FDA. Another thing to try to figure out.

Anyway, I don't know the board rules here but I would be happy to give you the name of the doctor if that is acceptable. He treats thyroid too. It is a 60 minute drive for me but I have not been disappointed. Last week he handed me eight pages of HRT protocol he uses and wanted me to read it. It contained stuff on maintaing testicular function and estrogen too. I think he may be more willing than some to be sympathetic of symptoms instead of pointing to numbers. I think I struck Gold with him.

Bob

 
Old 02-10-2008, 06:51 AM   #4
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA USA
Posts: 21
mac1968 HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

00stotiv

Any information on the Dr. would be great. Your T ranges looked low to start but were probably within the lab ranges. Did you have a hard time getting TRT and did your insurance object to paying? What symptoms did you experience that prompted you to go to the Dr.? Do you think you always suffered from some degree of low T or this just started in the past 7 years. Have you noticed any physical changes since starting TRT. Did he give you any indication why your T dropped so much the past few years? What was your LH reading?

 
Old 02-10-2008, 09:51 PM   #5
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,450
hayfarmer HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

Sounds like you have a good doc. Your T is awful high though and so is your DHT. E2 only slightly high. You are doing good to keep the E2 so low with T that high. No wonder you feel good. DHT too high though can be bad for the prostate in addition to the hair loss. I think you should try a lower dose to see if you still feel good. You may even feel better. No way to know until you try.

BTW, it's ok to mention the name and city of your doctor....but you can not give contact information like phone numbers, email address, etc... At least that's my understanding of the rules here.

 
Old 02-11-2008, 06:24 PM   #6
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

Hayfarmer, I appreciate that you answered my question on the doctor. Thanks.

Since the test was injected, I am shocked the DHT got that high. I kind of doubt it was high before though, at least because I still have a full head of hair, and yes, that is a concern. One of the reasons I avoided Testim. I wonder if the DHT information was correct.

I have thought about the dosage. The numbers I posted were before HCG 3 times a week and before Arimidex which I just swallowed for the first time a few minutes ago. The surprising dosage is a topic for another post. I would think the total test would increase with the HCG (500 x 3 days a week-doctor doesn't think it will increase significantly) and the Arimidex would raise the free level so it looks like I will be pushing the envelope.

The next time I test will be on the day before the blook draw this time, so if I am over 1000 on day seven, that might make more a reduction in dosage. I think the doctor is expecting about a 50 % difference from day 2 and day 7 so he is okay with the lofty short term results.

Mac1968, He is maybe not far from you, in Omaha. Name is Jeffery Passer. I live in Lincoln, so it is an hour drive when I have to go there, but worth it.
Yes, my numbers were within range but my symptoms were sever short term memory loss, tired in afternoon having to struggle to get through work, sleeping too much, quit working out, just lost my zest for life and I wasn't under any particular stress. I got tired of watching myself deteriorate.

I supplied him with other testosterone blood tests from the last seven years as I found a doctor back then that agreed to test me once a year for baseline purposes-you never know unless you ask, so I did. Also some extensive blood and urine analysis from work, so that may have greased the skids.

I don't know what caused the steady decline from 852 to 391. All other blood tests, MRI, EEG are okay. Since I had some knowledge of testosterone, I was anxious to try it. LH reading was something like 1.8, what it always is. I also pulled a DHEA level of 47 which is way low. Pregnenolone was 90, which is in the middle.

Physical changes are more muscle and less fat in some areas as I resumed working out and quickly noticed the same weights I thought were heavy months before felt light so I kept adding weight and adding sets. I have had back surgery and have three bad discs but I am much stronger now than I have been in a long time. Have to be careful with that. The pump I get when lifting makes me self conscious as it is pretty distinguishable from what it was before. No doubt this makes is very easy to hit the weights.

Endurance is excellent. This all all within ten to eleven weeks. The improvement is so consistent now I have trouble remembering to update my daily log, which I give to the doctor so he doesn't think I am making anything up. More likely to notice an erection when waking up a couple time a night.

Mental changes-Easier to be confrontive, ready to go to battle, yet generally upbeat and laugh more. I kid you not, I can get up in the morning and shake off any drowsiness while still in bed after the alarm goes off. I don't really get tired anymore. I feel like I should but I can just keep going. Sleep is excellent. Memory loss is gone. Thoughts enter my mind faster and are clearer. I think the HCG helped ramp some of this up.

Obviously not everyone's experience is the same, and with the introduction of Arimidex, there is more experimenting to do and you don't know what will happen down the road. I would highly recommend him to you if want to see him as you are probably within reasonable driving distance. Worth a try.

I know this is a long post but I am real excited. I feel like Jerry Lewis' character in The Nutty Professor. I don't want to lose my potion and revert to the way I was before.

Bob

 
Old 02-11-2008, 06:43 PM   #7
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

Mac1968, I forgot to tell you that my insurance has paid for everything, blood tests, test, hcg (Caremark actually), and Arimidex. Different plans/different coverages. I don't know how common this is but you can always call your plan and ask what they cover for hypogonadism.

Bob

 
Old 02-12-2008, 10:10 AM   #8
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA USA
Posts: 21
mac1968 HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

Bob

Thanks again for the info. I think we have similar symptoms and I also live in Lincoln. I will be very curious to see how things continue to trend for you. It sounds like this has made a huge difference in your quality of life. I found Dr. Passer's website and I'm considering an appt. I have a very good GP here in Lincoln but he does not specialize in TRT and thyroid.

On a side note, my free T was 86 but my DHT was close to 900 (very high). That surprised me because I assumed that the DHT test would be low because my free T was low. I assume it may have been a false reading. However, if it is correct, I guess it is safe to assume it's possible your DHT may have been much higher than you think before you started your TRT. I'm not sure what's up with my readings because my total T was around 600 (not that low) but Free T around 86 (within range but very low). Possibly too much of my Total is being converted to DHT. I'm trying to figure everything out and appreciate the info you have provided. Please keep me updated.

 
Old 02-12-2008, 03:43 PM   #9
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

What's in the water in Lincoln? Let me know if you visit Dr. Passer. I noticed from another post you had a pretty high SHBG of like 55. If your E2 was high, those could be lowering your free test. I think the prolactin was high too. Perhaps you'd have some options without having to use testosterone, I don't know, depending on what your total test is at. Hopefully your regular doctor has checked some things you could show the doctor in Omaha.

Bob

 
Old 02-13-2008, 03:22 PM   #10
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA USA
Posts: 21
mac1968 HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

00Slotiv

It seems like a lot of things that are produced by my anterior pituitary gland are a little off with me (TSH, LH, prolactin, FSH). Most are within the "lab ranges" but are either very low or very high in the range. That's what makes figuring this all out so complicated. It probably all comes down to one thing in the long run but figuring it out is a long process. I assume my free t is a major component of some of my symptoms but the bigger question is why is it low and is the easiest answer TRT. Is Dr. Passer very knowledgable about different reasons for low T or does he see it's low and treats with TRT? I do think TRT would probably solve many of my symptoms based off some of the information I have read from this site. I am kind of like you in that I would rather have a high quality of life now and take the risk of maybe losing a few years in the end. Does he want you to cycle on TRT or will you take on a weekly basis for life? Have you noticed any difference since taking the Arimidex? Is there anything else you have noticed since starting TRT? After starting TRT how long did it take before you noticed a difference and what did you notice? How long before you noticed a clearer head and better short-term memory?

 
Old 02-13-2008, 04:42 PM   #11
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

mac1968,

Is Dr. Passer very knowledgable about different reasons for low T or does he see it's low and treats with TRT?-----I don't know what to tell you on that one. He didn't ask me if my general doctor had turned over every rock looking for a reason, which he didn't. I gave him some blood tests from some annual testing and past testosterone results.

I told him why I was there. We did Testim for two weeks but I was worried about DHT (now I am 2.5 times the top of the range anyway, it turns out) among other things. I asked for the injections. He gave me the option of every week or two weeks. I chose weekly.

Does he want you to cycle on TRT or will you take on a weekly basis for life?------He gave me the option and I wanted to get the levels to a certain range and try to stay there, so no cycling for me.

Have you noticed any difference since taking the Arimidex?-----No, not after three days.

He said 20 is a good place for the E2 so that is what I will shoot for. I called the office and told them the E2 needed to come down and I wanted the Arimidex, so he filled that script. This is the first thing that alerted me to the fact that he might know what he is doing.

By the way, he understands the need for HCG, or even some other option if the patient wants that.

Is there anything else you have noticed since starting TRT?-----I wake up ready to go. I used to hit snooze forever before getting out of bed. Now, one snooze and I get up and don't feel like I have to shake off the sleep. Also, recovery from hard days at work or gym workouts are swift. This is one of the more pleasant responses. I hope it lasts.

After starting TRT how long did it take before you noticed a difference and what did you notice?-----Two weeks of Testim and two shots of test cyp. I hadn't lifted weights for several months, but picked up where I left off easily and quickly added weight, reps and sets. Then I added more days. Major increase in muscle size and recovery. I had to lessen this load eventually as I was pushing myself too hard and getting a little worn out, but that problem would have been impossible several months ago.

Other than that, found myself laughing more and just wanting to get out of the apartment more. Despite that, I can have a little bit shorter fuse at times, a little bit more defensive than usual, but I can get over it quickly. Certainly an increase in aggression, for lack of a better word, but I like to think it is controlled. Maybe another way to put it is a little more pushy. I have to tell myself that I probably am feeling better than someone not taking TRT, so I shouldn't expect them to push themselves as I have been able to do.

How long before you noticed a clearer head and better short-term memory?----Several weeks. My mind operates at higher RPMs it seems like. I am not smarter, just my mind is less tired than it would normally be. At bedtime though, I have been able to let it die off. Often it is hard for me to shut it down (thoughts) but I am sleeping well, so the TRT isn't causing any sleep disturbances. I wear a CPAP devise, so any increase in sleep apnea shouldn't be a problem.

I have to run to the gym for two hours but I forgot to mention any sexual changes. Sex drive is up slightly. I really thought it might be radically different but it isn't. It is fine though. I have read that unless the free test is really low and libido is low, adding test doesn't change one into a sexual maniac. Probably more intrusive sexual thoughts/fantasies than before. More nocturnal erections. I have to make note of this especially with Arimidex, as I don't want E2 to get too low.

Wierd, but sexual nightime dreams have been almost nill. Maybe the E2 has something to do with this?

I have got to go. Glad to try to answer your good questions. Please post if you find some answers and can see Dr. Passer. I have found him to be willing to listen to my concerns and suggestions for treatment. He has done everything I could have hoped for (almost makes me nervous!) and I am thinking about erecting a bronze statue in his likeness....just kidding. He is also known for being a top thyroid doctor as well.

Take care.

Bob

 
Old 02-14-2008, 09:46 AM   #12
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA USA
Posts: 21
mac1968 HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

00slotiv

Alot of good info....thank you. I know you only took Testim for two weeks but with your experience do you think shots work better for you? How much Testim did you take and now knowing high levels of DHT may not pose huge physical problems for you would you switch back to Testim? Has anyone, that is unaware of your TRT, ask about your emotional or physical changes? Since starting TRT what has been your biggest surprises (what did you expect and did it live up to those expectations)?

Last edited by mac1968; 02-14-2008 at 09:47 AM.

 
Old 02-14-2008, 07:22 PM   #13
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Ne USA
Posts: 45
00slotiv HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

mac1968,

Since I only used Testim for two weeks I will compare that to the two weeks on cypionate and the shots got me up and going again. Much more "zing".

5 mg (1 tube). Interesting question about switching back. I am not inclined since I get the impression gels are less likely to reach the high normal range. Sometimes someone will say that it did but most people that I have seen post their numbers are not in that range, and I don't think the product insert suggests that is likely either, but it does happen. Then there is the part of not getting it on someone.

The time it took me to get all the gel out of the tube and thoroughly rubbed into my shoulders compared with the time to wipe, load syringe, switch syringe, inject, bandage, etc...are about the same. I was afraid of needles but I found it different to inject something in myself I know I need to have versus someone taking blood out of me. I look forward to it really.

Then there is the fact that the gels mimic a more normal pattern of release in the body compared to the shots, which is a point for the gels but I have read a lot of posts where someone says their levels didn't go up very much, if at all, after months on the gels and didn't want to spend a lot of time getting it where I would like it to be in order to have more drive and ambition. The shots are supposed to have a 100 % success rate to get into the normal range.

One thing about the shots is it is easier to make adjustments, just a line (20mg) up on the syringe versus half a tube more, 1/4 tube more...

It is possible high E2 may be the culprit in prostate cancer and not high DHT, according to what I have read lately.

No one has asked me about any changes in my behavior or appearance in the last 11 weeks. I know very few guys in the gym these days so they wouldn't have a "before" image. No one has said anything at work. I don't think I have any pimples unless they are very small. It is hard to tell.

Surprises have been the speed of the strength and muscle gain.
Also that there isn't a huge difference in my sex drive, which is common among test users that weren't very low to begin with. Thoughts can come and go more quickly, but there isn't that much difference overall.
Ejaculation is more delayed, which again, is not uncommon.
I notice an itching or wierd feeling at the top of my head that I rub out quickly that I felt on the Testim. I suppose that could be DHT, but I hope not. Looks like I am scratching my head but I am trying to get that sensation to go away. It is not bad, just don't recall it being there before. I hope I just switched shampoos or something.

I expected more energy and a general sense of well being, stronger, happier. I don't see how this wouldn't be the case with anyone provided E2 is kept in check and something like HCG is given to keep the testicles working.

I am very happy so far, and feel like this is for life.

Glad to be able to answer your questions. The more you can learn about this the better.

Bob

 
Old 02-14-2008, 08:52 PM   #14
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,450
hayfarmer HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

Bob,
Glad to hear you're doing so well. Keep it up.

Also, I agree with you E2 is the greater danger for prostate cancer but DHT too high can also cause issues more with BHP although DHT in the normal range is good.

 
Old 02-15-2008, 03:08 PM   #15
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA USA
Posts: 21
mac1968 HB User
Re: High test with 100 mg a week and feeling great

00Stotiv

Thanks again for the information. How long did it take to get an appointment with Dr. Passer? Do you feel the TRT starts to wear off by day 7 or has it been pretty consistent from day 1 to Day 7? Was your Dr. surpised at how high you T levels got compared to where you started (391) with taking the 100mg of cypionate. It appears some take much larger doses than that. Have you read anything on the roles of total T and free T on the body?

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
High Blood Pressure and other symptoms ValJep High & Low Blood Pressure 3 11-10-2008 03:13 PM
Parathyroid High Calcium from Dr. Norman wdiguy Thyroid Disorders 103 10-16-2008 08:27 PM
high platelet count julieinhawaii Blood and Blood Vessel 28 09-22-2007 08:08 AM
new poster on WH- ? about high risk pregnancy after 1st resulted in problems.HELP? OneCharmedMom Women's Health 0 06-06-2007 12:51 PM
Rash, Type 2 diabetic, high cholesterol, im only 26 :( please help LovelyOne Liver & Pancreas Disorders 7 03-31-2007 04:17 PM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Arimidex
Betamethasone
Cialis
Cipro
Clomid
  Estradiol
Hydrocortisone
Levaquin
Paxil Viagra




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



boscot (24), Fles (22), Geoff B (20), mc7 (12), ScrotumRelief (9), orion (9), ladybud (7), cleansweap (7), WildNorth (7), keil (6)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1165), MSJayhawk (1000), Apollo123 (898), Titchou (833), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (758), ladybud (747), sammy64 (668), midwest1 (665), BlueSkies14 (610)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:40 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.com™
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.com™ All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!