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Old 02-27-2008, 11:17 AM   #1
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TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

TRT can be done in many ways - Gel, Patch, Compounded Gel, Injections, Pellets etc. What are the pros and Cons of each? What Should i choose if i am starting first?

Thanks for your help

 
Old 02-27-2008, 12:35 PM   #2
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seth64 View Post
TRT can be done in many ways - Gel, Patch, Compounded Gel, Injections, Pellets etc. What are the pros and Cons of each? What Should i choose if i am starting first?

Thanks for your help
Gel - Pros easy to maintain a good level of T CONs- sticky until dry and can be transfered if you dont wash it off before sex or any vigorous contact (a simple touch shouldn't transfer it if its dry)

Injections - Pros - no risk of transfer Cons - you have to give your self a shot several times a week

Patch - Pros - limited risk of transfer, its easy Cons - possible skin irritation, sometimes doesn't absorb well (vaires from individual)

I've never heard of pellets. dont know the difference between a gel and compound gel.

 
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:25 PM   #3
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

This would be my list. Good question by the way:

gels
pro - easy to apply, less conversion to estradiol
con - must use daily, may not be able to get level high enough, keeps T at a virtual constant level 24/7, more conversion to DHT (this could be a pro for some)

patch
pro - easy to apply, lets T level fluctuate thuout the day better simulating natural T levels, i'm guessing less conversion to estradiol
con - must apply daily, skin irritation, visible to others in case you don't want it to be, (not sure what T levvel you can achieve...never tried it)

shots
pro - can get to any T level dessired, usually only once a week application, lets T levels vary thru the week, cheaper
cons - you have to give yourself a shot, tends to convert more to estradiol

pellets:
I don't know enough but I do not go for them because they must be implanted by a doctor and once in you are stuck with them for months even if the level is not right. Some might like the fact they get this injection once every few months and are done.

 
Old 02-29-2008, 04:18 AM   #4
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

One form of TRT that I never see brought up is a cream based formula that a compounding pharmacy (not BALCO) prepares right in the pharmacy itself. Compounding pharmacies make lots of different meds and they are typically "compounded" to make them easier or more comfortable to use and for those with allergies to some additives found in some medications. Mylanta with lidocain for acid reflux pain, for example. Your MD obviously has to prescribe it and its basically Testosterone in a cream/lotion "base". The base can be adjusted if one is allergic to something in the lotion. They have dozens of combos and all are fragrance free. Search "Compounding Pharmacy" on Wikipedia for a good description.

The plus to this cream is no alcohol, no slime and much less skin surface area needed for application. My prescription says: TESTOSTERONE VAN PEN 10% CREAM- APPLY 1 ML (100MG) EACH DAY. It was prepared and put into 3ml syringes (10 total for a month) and each day I push out 1ml into my palm and rub into my arm. 30 day supply cost me $75 without insurance.

Do not get me wrong as I am not saying that this is the best TRT, its just another option. I tried Androgel and didn't like it because it irritated my skin and was so slippery that if I wasn't super careful some of it would run right off me and onto the floor. It also took my whole upper arm and shoulder to apply and I am a big guy. I was prescribed the individual packets and not the pump.

I also did 8 weeks of shots and just found it tedious to go to the MD once a week and wait (up to 30 mins). Plus I live 20 mins away from the office so it was a pain (no pun intended ) to drive in just for a shot.
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2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 02-29-2008, 09:20 AM   #5
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Bilbo, I bet the compounded cream is much cheaper than androgel or androderm too. Is this true?

 
Old 02-29-2008, 09:58 AM   #6
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayfarmer View Post
Bilbo, I bet the compounded cream is much cheaper than androgel or androderm too. Is this true?
Im not really sure. I had awesome health insurance prescription benefits when I did the Androgel and I think I paid a $30 copay which was the highest tier. This got me a box of 30 packets of Androgel 1%/5g. I believe at one time I was using 2 per day.

With the cream being the very basic of raw ingredients it has to be cheaper to compound but there is a cost for the compounding service and the syringes but I bet its still waaay cheaper. I will ask my Pharmacist what the non insurance cash price of AndroGel (packet and pump) is today or tomorrow when I pick up my next script. Its the same Pharmacy.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 02-29-2008, 01:20 PM   #7
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

compound cream is $30 for a month supply for me, much cheaper.

 
Old 02-29-2008, 01:39 PM   #8
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Insurance or cash? Dosage? Just curious as I am paying over twice that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe132 View Post
compound cream is $30 for a month supply for me, much cheaper.
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2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 02-29-2008, 07:44 PM   #9
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

I think a month of androgel at 5g a day is about $250. I think Joe is talking about the cash price when he says $30. Most doctors either are not up on the huge price diff, or don't care, or are getting free stuff from the companies that make the brand names. Insurance also is not up on this amazingly. Many will charge you more for a compounded med than androrgel even though it costs them far less.....its nuts. Also, you might all be interested to know the pharmaceutical companies are lobbying Congress to ban compounding when a name brand is available. God Bless America.......really I'm patriotic but this drives me nuts. I have written my Congressman about this and suggest you all do the same.

Last edited by hayfarmer; 02-29-2008 at 07:45 PM.

 
Old 02-29-2008, 08:58 PM   #10
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Oh, I read the crap thats out there on the "anti-compounding" sites. They claim its all about safety when its clearly about profit. Lets see, Pharmacists are smart enough to sell and consult on the millions of meds out there but they cant "follow" simple "recipes" with basic components. Sure, some compounds are complex, but the majority of them are very basic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hayfarmer View Post
I think a month of androgel at 5g a day is about $250. I think Joe is talking about the cash price when he says $30. Most doctors either are not up on the huge price diff, or don't care, or are getting free stuff from the companies that make the brand names. Insurance also is not up on this amazingly. Many will charge you more for a compounded med than androrgel even though it costs them far less.....its nuts. Also, you might all be interested to know the pharmaceutical companies are lobbying Congress to ban compounding when a name brand is available. God Bless America.......really I'm patriotic but this drives me nuts. I have written my Congressman about this and suggest you all do the same.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 03-01-2008, 09:18 AM   #11
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Its 5mg per day for 30 day supply and its cash. To be honest the big pharmma companies make me sick. After going through this and other health problems, dealing with insurance, and outrageous health care prices, it makes you wanna scream. We as a society need to change, health care shouldnt be about getting rich but improving lifes. I guess thats the world we live in though.

 
Old 03-02-2008, 04:41 PM   #12
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

I am right with ya. I know this is a medical web site and dont want to go political on everyone......just remember what you have gone thru when you VOTE this November.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe132 View Post
Its 5mg per day for 30 day supply and its cash. To be honest the big pharmma companies make me sick. After going through this and other health problems, dealing with insurance, and outrageous health care prices, it makes you wanna scream. We as a society need to change, health care shouldnt be about getting rich but improving lifes. I guess thats the world we live in though.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 03-02-2008, 09:36 PM   #13
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

You also have to remember that many new drugs must have a high price to justify the cost the company has developing the drug, going thru trials and risking that the FDA might not approve it. I think many times the high cost is justified or we just won't get as many new drugs. What bugs me is this move to not allow compounding in order to force us to buy a drug when there is a cheaper alternative. Thats nonsense.

 
Old 03-02-2008, 10:32 PM   #14
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Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Hayfarmer,

R&D costs are dwarfed by marketing costs for most major pharma companies. If you watch any TV or read any magazines you will see that. I'm not basing this assertion because I have seen lots of ads, I researched it. The major drug companies own "inside" association, the "Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA)", stated that in 2004 pharmaceutical companies spent $29.6 billion on R&D and $27.7 billion for all promotional activities (marketing). Can we trust these numbers? Even if they are correct, 50/50 on R&D vs Marketing? Thats crazy. Independent researchers have come up with their own numbers and most think that marketing dollars are twice that of R&D.

I would post links but we know its a no no. Just look up "The Cost of Pushing Pills".

And lets not even get into what folks outside the US pay for meds. Why should we have to subsidize their cheap meds?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hayfarmer View Post
You also have to remember that many new drugs must have a high price to justify the cost the company has developing the drug, going thru trials and risking that the FDA might not approve it. I think many times the high cost is justified or we just won't get as many new drugs. What bugs me is this move to not allow compounding in order to force us to buy a drug when there is a cheaper alternative. Thats nonsense.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 03-03-2008, 04:17 AM   #15
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seth64 HB User
Re: TRT - Pros and Cons of various forms (Gel, Patch, Injections)

Question on Compounded Gel:

Does these Gels enable long term sustainable increase in T similar to shots? Or does it become ineffective after some time?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboCameron View Post
Hayfarmer,

R&D costs are dwarfed by marketing costs for most major pharma companies. If you watch any TV or read any magazines you will see that. I'm not basing this assertion because I have seen lots of ads, I researched it. The major drug companies own "inside" association, the "Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA)", stated that in 2004 pharmaceutical companies spent $29.6 billion on R&D and $27.7 billion for all promotional activities (marketing). Can we trust these numbers? Even if they are correct, 50/50 on R&D vs Marketing? Thats crazy. Independent researchers have come up with their own numbers and most think that marketing dollars are twice that of R&D.

I would post links but we know its a no no. Just look up "The Cost of Pushing Pills".

And lets not even get into what folks outside the US pay for meds. Why should we have to subsidize their cheap meds?

Last edited by seth64; 03-03-2008 at 04:18 AM.

 
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