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Old 01-04-2009, 11:05 PM   #1
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lander06 HB User
Exclamation Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Okay I've read many post regarding Low-T and yes they fit me to a tee. Thats why I'm so upset with my doctor and I'm screaming for help!

I'm a 37 years old and I've noticed my libido totally gone. How do you go from your wife getting angry at you for waking her to have sex all the time to having sex once a month? How do you go from needing only 4 hours of sleep and ready to get out the house to sleeping 10 hours if I didn't have to work the next day? How do you (according to my wife) go from being apathetic to everything to trying to pick fights? Very week erections during sex including in the morning.

Okay so I go to my doctor (doctor that specializes in men's health) and tell him the same. He puts me on a machine that measure my erection while I sleep for 3 days. He say its "normal" not strong but "something is there". I took blood work and my testosterone was 375 ng/dl (241-827). He gave me a prescription for 20mg viagra...nothing! Was given a prescription for 50mg and was told to take 2 if needed. Worked twice then the worse headaches i've had in my life thereafter.

Then was told to try Cialis. Nothing but did have bad leg cramps every time I took his samples. Then Caverject injection. Let's just say I'm afraid of needles. I don't want to take pills all my life and I know that something is just not right. My wife has the perfect body and when I see her, it turns me on but little or no erection.

So doing research after much frustration, I came across this board and saw what the correct blood work I should be taking. So after tricking the nurse for the proper tests, I got these readings:

Testosterone, Serum - 404 ng/dl (241-827)
Free Testosterone - 11.1 pg/ml (8.7 - 25.1)
LH - 2.3 miu/ml (1.5 - 9.3)
TSH - 4.178 uiu/ml (0.450 - 4.500)
Estradiol - 62 pg/ml (0-53)
FSH - 1.6 miu/ml (1.4 - 18.1)

Get this, my doctor was angry with me because I told the nurse I wanted to know. He says this lab was unessesary. This is the last time going to this doctor. I know my body and I know that something is not right and I don't want to start taking pills the rest of my life. I don't drink or smoke and need help.


WHAT CAN I DO? HOW DO I FIND A DOCTOR (Kansas City) THAT KNOWS WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND TREAT MY ISSUE.

Any help would be appreciated.

 
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #2
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Location: Lowland,ca
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Jinxy285 HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lander06 View Post
Okay I've read many post regarding Low-T and yes they fit me to a tee. Thats why I'm so upset with my doctor and I'm screaming for help!

I'm a 37 years old and I've noticed my libido totally gone. How do you go from your wife getting angry at you for waking her to have sex all the time to having sex once a month? How do you go from needing only 4 hours of sleep and ready to get out the house to sleeping 10 hours if I didn't have to work the next day? How do you (according to my wife) go from being apathetic to everything to trying to pick fights? Very week erections during sex including in the morning.

Okay so I go to my doctor (doctor that specializes in men's health) and tell him the same. He puts me on a machine that measure my erection while I sleep for 3 days. He say its "normal" not strong but "something is there". I took blood work and my testosterone was 375 ng/dl (241-827). He gave me a prescription for 20mg viagra...nothing! Was given a prescription for 50mg and was told to take 2 if needed. Worked twice then the worse headaches i've had in my life thereafter.

Then was told to try Cialis. Nothing but did have bad leg cramps every time I took his samples. Then Caverject injection. Let's just say I'm afraid of needles. I don't want to take pills all my life and I know that something is just not right. My wife has the perfect body and when I see her, it turns me on but little or no erection.

So doing research after much frustration, I came across this board and saw what the correct blood work I should be taking. So after tricking the nurse for the proper tests, I got these readings:

Testosterone, Serum - 404 ng/dl (241-827)
Free Testosterone - 11.1 pg/ml (8.7 - 25.1)
LH - 2.3 miu/ml (1.5 - 9.3)
TSH - 4.178 uiu/ml (0.450 - 4.500)
Estradiol - 62 pg/ml (0-53)
FSH - 1.6 miu/ml (1.4 - 18.1)

Get this, my doctor was angry with me because I told the nurse I wanted to know. He says this lab was unessesary. This is the last time going to this doctor. I know my body and I know that something is not right and I don't want to start taking pills the rest of my life. I don't drink or smoke and need help.


WHAT CAN I DO? HOW DO I FIND A DOCTOR (Kansas City) THAT KNOWS WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND TREAT MY ISSUE.

Any help would be appreciated.
The first thing I see is that you are on the low side of Total T and over the range of estradiol, E2, so this puts you at a T:E2 ration of 6.5:1.. prefered range is 20:1 to 30:1... so your Dr has no idea about hormone issues in men... find one that does. I know of a website that has listings by areas of Anti aging Dr's but I dont think I can post on this site. start calling Dr's in your area, Endos, D.O.s and uronlogist and ask if they specialize in male hormone issues... that is the best I can tell you... on your next blood work you should also look for prolactin... high prolactin is a serious libido killer. In regards to your high E2... while you are looking for a Dr. you can look at addressing some of the causes of high E2 your self. Are you overweight, drink alot of alchol??? these are known causes. Also, try taking 50mg of Zinc twice a day... once in the AM and once in the PM... PM dose take as late as possible, but be aware that for me it causes insomnia... after those you can look at OTC supplement called DIM... Indoplex DIM is reportedly the best. It seems to do little for me... DO NOT start taking DHEA!!! This usually causes spikes in E2...becuase in men it reportadly converts more to E2 than T. Do not take any test boosters until you get the E2 issue under control. THey very well my boost your T, but you most likely will not feel the benefits becuase while they are boosting your T, the higher T is converting to E2 and the T:E2 ratio will basically stay unchanged and you will still feel like crap....
good luck.... dont give up.... it takes alot of work to find a good DR and get this stuff going...

 
Old 01-05-2009, 01:39 PM   #3
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whytry HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinxy285 View Post
DO NOT start taking DHEA!!! This usually causes spikes in E2...becuase in men it reportadly converts more to E2 than T.
My own experience over the past year makes me believe that high DHEA converts to E2, but if it is in the preferred range then it doesn't. I have been taking DHEA for the past year and when I was checked in May for DHEA-S, it was 450. My E2 in July was 25.6 (20-56). When I had a blood test in November, my DHEA-S was 617 and my E2 was up to 46.5. The normally recommended range for DHEA-S from several sources that I have read puts it at between 300 and 500. Although it is not recommended that men younger than 40 take DHEA, I think that it is beneficial for older men, like myself at age 63. It really helped my depression a lot and that was before I started on TRT. My DHEA-S was 450 in May and my total T was 304 and I started on TRT a couple of weeks after that.

I do agree that it would not be a good idea for a 37 year old man to start taking DHEA, at least not until he has his DHEA-S level checked. If he is in the 300 to 500 ug/dl range then it would not be wise to take any DHEA. However, if it is like 100 to 200 then it would be beneficial to take a small amount, like perhaps 15 to 25 mg per day.

Lander06, it does appear that your E2 might be more of a problem than even your total T. However, your free T is at the bottom of the range and the range used indicates that the analog method of measuring was used to determine your free T. According to the opinion of many doctors, that method is not reliable. It would be best to get a free T test that is determined from a calculation of total T and SHBG. In any case, it does appear that your free T is even lower than your total T relative to the normal range.

 
Old 01-06-2009, 11:50 AM   #4
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Location: United States
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cleansweap HB Usercleansweap HB Usercleansweap HB Usercleansweap HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Wow, I agree something is wrong! You done right by kicking that doctor to the curb/side.
Kansas City is a big place, full of doctor's. Maybe a friend can refer you to a urologist. Hey, if all else fails ask your dentist who he would suggest seeing. Have you sat down and made a list of any changes in your life that would cause/start all of the problems you've been having? Employment, family crisis, weight gain, lack of exercise, stress, medications etc. Just keep looking until you find a doctor that will help you.

 
Old 01-13-2009, 05:32 PM   #5
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MikeM72 HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

I'm at same position as you are. I was told by two urologist that free testosterone is not accurate value and both recommended to do bioavailable testosterone test instead. Also try to do tests more than once at the same lab and around the same time.Since your estradiol high I would try to get referral to endo.

Do you have morning erections at all?

Meantime until you solve your problem try cialis again. This is the only least invasive option at this point. They claim that it works in 30 min but for me it takes more than couple hours at least.

Let us know about your progress.

Last edited by MikeM72; 01-13-2009 at 05:33 PM.

 
Old 01-13-2009, 09:37 PM   #6
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hayfarmer HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Sorry to all....I have not be around here much lately. Work has been too demanding.

Lander, to me I am struck by the fact your LH is low and your estradiol is high. Your estradiol should in no way be as high as it is with such a low total T. Combine that with low LH and I think you have your answer. How to solve it is another issue. My first suggestion would be to try the clomid test where you take 25- 50 mg of clomid daily for a week or two and then retest LH and total T to see if it helps.

You need a good doctor to handle this. You can spend lots of time wasted trying to fine one. I suggest Dr. John Crisler in Lansing Michigan since he is the closest expert I know to you. It may be a heck of a trip to see him but believe me you will waste a lot more time trying to find someone close to you who can deal with this.

Best of luck......P.S. your TSH is very high too...that can contribute to this. You have secondary hypogonadism and hypothyroidism. This is not an unusualy combination.

 
Old 01-14-2009, 01:38 AM   #7
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lander06 HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

"Combine that with low LH and I think you have your answer." I really don't know what that means. I know that something is wrong and I've noticed that I'm exhausted all the time lately.

 
Old 01-14-2009, 01:42 AM   #8
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lander06 HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Small errections in the morning. When I urinate, it's completely gone. I've tried viagra (2x50mg) huge headache with no results, Cialis (no change with BAD leg cramps the next day). The doctor gave me caverject which work but I'm afraid of needles.

There something wrong. I've noticed that I'm extremely tired lateley also.

 
Old 01-14-2009, 04:49 PM   #9
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hayfarmer HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

what I mean is if estrogen or estradiol (which is a very potent estrogen) is too high it can supress LH. It tricks the hypothalmus in the brain into thinking T is high enough when it is not. This causes LH to drop. LH is what stimulates the testes to make T. So if LH drops then T drops.

This is why I suggested a clomid test (or I think I did). The clomid will block the estradiol from binding to the hypothalmus receptors. This might make LH go up dramatically and cause a rise in T. The weak morning erections fit with the low T and high estradiol.

 
Old 01-23-2009, 05:09 AM   #10
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MikeM72 HB User
Re: Doctor says I'm "NORMAL"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lander06 View Post
Small errections in the morning. When I urinate, it's completely gone. I've tried viagra (2x50mg) huge headache with no results, Cialis (no change with BAD leg cramps the next day). The doctor gave me caverject which work but I'm afraid of needles.

There something wrong. I've noticed that I'm extremely tired lateley also.
Have you got any progress so far? Did you find another specialist?

I got referral to endo who asked to do Estradiol,TSH,T3,T4,PSA,Calcium before he can see me.
Now I'm just waiting form apt.

 
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