44 year old male...excellent health no issues until recently...diagnosised with GI inflamtion disease....while doing blood found I had low T...was having symptoms whole time...ED, anxiety, temper, sweats etc. Physically quite strong and very verial up until GI onset....never had ED issues etc. Blood pressure, blood sugar etc all excellent.
Doctor placed me on Androgel...along with meds for stomach...all symptoms have improved excepting for some axniety sweats and ED.
Retested after 3 months of 5mg of Androgel daily and here's where I am...
Total T 318
Free T 7.9
Estradiol 17
Cortisol 11
FSH 1.0
LH 1.1
Prolactin 2.7
DHEA 1.7
Really disappointed nothing move much from first test after 3 months of androgel....Doc has upped me to 10mg. Numbers are pretty much same as they were 3 months ago prior to Androgel...so really little number improvement and only small physical ED improvements.
I am not sure what all causes low T (I do know a few things) but I would look in that direction. The fact that it didn't help your ED is what is troubling. If Low T was causing that then it should have bounced back. The other troubling issue is that your T levels have not changed with 3 months of usage. Definately, let us know what endo says. Thanks.
I am not sure what all causes low T (I do know a few things) but I would look in that direction. The fact that it didn't help your ED is what is troubling. If Low T was causing that then it should have bounced back. The other troubling issue is that your T levels have not changed with 3 months of usage. Definately, let us know what endo says. Thanks.
thanks for the comments...inflamatory diseases have been known to shut down your T system...as demonstrated by my low LH and FSH levels...question is can you restart them?? Also the dosage I was getting may be insufficient? or maybe just not easily absorbed by my system...may need injection possibly HCG? Endo heading to next month will have better handle on in.
Just never though I would be at this place...looking at me physcially you wouldn't believe it either.
Any others with thoughts on numbers? Hayfarmer how about you?
You cant rule out that androgel isnt working. You have to read up on the HPTA feedback loop. Pretty much when you start T replacement your body has more T in it. So your hypothalmus sees the extra T and stops telling the pituitary to make LH/FSH. Once this happens you are completly dependent on the external T. In this case your LH is very low so the testicles arnt getting much of a signal to make T. Uping the doseage might work well. You should talk to your doctor about adding in HCG to keep your testicles working, making hormones, and keeping you fertile.
thanks for the info...my LH and FSH numbers were low prior to taking the androgel...and have stayed there...the concern was that my total T did not respond to the supplmental T is stayed about the same level. I am hoping the new doc might consider injections with HGC too...would really love to see my system come back on line now that the GI issues are under control...not sure if that is possible and/or likely. Could HGC do that? No worried about being fertile...had Vas 4 years ago...just want to feel good and have decent sexual performance.
HCG has more benefits than just fertility. It will also keep your natural testosterone going and the testicles do produce other hormones that are important for the body.
A couple of questions. If a guy starts using HRT and then stops does the body permanently stop making T or does it usually just take time for the body to realise it needs to start manufacturing again? The other thing with all of this is that with GCZTRF (Whatever the one is that doesn't stop the testies from making T) wouldn't the overall hormone levels in the body be the combination of both the Bodies production and the external source?
You also mentioned Inflamatory disease. Later you mentioned your GI tract being better. Does that mean that you had or have IBS and that IBS can cause low T? I have CP which I know can and does however according to my doc my tests prove that I am fine. You need to know that CP also became orchitis. If the infection in the prostate won't stop it how about the one in the testicle itself. hehe. All good though, there is treatment for it and you can get better. I am proof.
I have some form of Chrohn's...the doc's surmise that as my body reacted to the disease it shut down...no essintial systems such as T production...makes sense as the disease increased so did my low T symptoms. I am hoping with the combo of inflamation being better controlled and possible some HGC my system may restart it own production. As of now however not much has happened. I was looking for some of the others to comment on my numbers prior to me meeting with new highly regarded Endo in boston.
I see. So the problem isn't you bouncing back after the disease is gone it is more that your body is still battling the disease. I know that that is about. Don't know much about Chron's though. I am guessing you have already as I spent a long time researching CP to get answers to my predicament. That made a world of difference. The Medical community have actually been the ones dragging their feet not the other sources. You have to read the obscure stuff too if you are interested.
Chron's in for life...it just a matter of putting it in remission and the body not struggling to control it. The meds giving to me have done a pretty good job putting it down and soon it should be controlled long term...body does need some time to heal from what was a chronic uncontrolled malaise. I however need to get me hormone system back on track so that I once again and be like I was.
Obviouisly one wants to encourage their body to manufacture it's own supply of whatever it needs naturally if we can however I wonder if that might be just a little too much for your's as of yet. Again, I don't know much about Chron's except that it is a digestive (bowl actually) issue and the bowl is responsible for a huge portion of our immune systems. Is there a way of boosting T levels in the body on a temporary level while working on the rest of the body?
I have IBS which according to some folks online could be a result of CP. At least the two seem to somewhat linked together as the amount of folks who have occurences of both is oddly high. Anyway by working on my immune system I have found that for one my issue with CP has been helped greatly, my hair is growing back and I am having less problems with my bowls. There is a lot of discussion online about various forms of fungus's that could be linked to IBS, CP, Chron's, Colitis and Diverticulitis as well as many other medical conditions. I am wondering if maybe there is something out there that can help you?
Bosco,
What were your numbers before being on androgel? The numbers while on it are pretty useless because the exogenous T (androgel) will skew all the numbers. It is not surprising you T levels would not go up while on 5 g on androgel. You body stops making it's own T so you are now dependant on the AG and 5g is not enough for most men.
The problem is you need to diagnose the root cause before staring any androgel or other replacement. Only then can you know the right treatment. To restart (if thats possible) you need to be on HCG and clomid. A simple test to see if this might work is to take clomid for a week or two and then retest total T and LH. Fortunately AG gets out of your system after a few days so you can still figure this out with the right help.
I would like to see your numbers before the AG. But, otherwise, the thing to do to try a restart would be to stop the AG, take clomid and HCG for a month or two and see what happens. Then you would remove the HCG and clomid and see if it works. I think you remove one before the other but I'm not sure of the order. You need a really good doctor to try that.
BTW, never heard of a GI problem causing this but the root cuase for many men is unknown so I can't say there is no connection. Sorry, I'm so busy now I dont' get the time to post here as much. I'll try to follow your thread when I can get here.
Pre-AG numbers should hopefully include total T, LH, FSH, estradiol, total estrogen, prolactin and TSH. Others may also be needed depending on the values of the above.
hayfarmer...thanks so much...I have read many of your posts and respect your opinions.
my total T prior to starting AG was about 307 no other numbers as is was just a marker along with other general blood panel taken at that time to see what might be causing me all my symptoms in my stomach etc....
doctor did feel this was very low considering my age health and body type....very muscular very verile etc. The 5gs of AG did very little...he now has me upped to 10gs as I was still having symptoms beyond ED, hot flashes sweats etc. the 10gs has eleviated most issues except the ED. I am going to a well respected Endo in Boston on the 17th....by recommendation of my Dr. feeling this is now beyond his knowlege base.
As for the GI causing issues... the surmise is that is was a chronic inflamatory disease tha taxed my body and caused it to shut down "non-essential" systems...such as T production. A couple books I have read state that long term chronic illness can have such a cause...specifically inflamatory diseases...who knew....they believe that this GI issue was plaguing me for almost 4 years...and as it increased so did no libido etc. fall off.
Reality for me is...can thru HGC injection/treatment etc. can I get my own system back on line (now that disease is in control) or am I facing some sort of Tthearapy for life? Any thoughts on this?
Last edited by boscot; 02-02-2009 at 06:26 AM.
Reason: mispelling
There is no way to know if you can restart you HPTA or not until you try. But it is definitely worth trying since hormone replacement at it's best will not make you feel as well as you did before all this started....plus it's just generally a pain in the a**. See if this new endo will let you try the clomid test where you take clomid for a few weeks and then test for LH and T to see if they responded at all. You must be off the androgel during this test. If your doctor(s) will not give it a try you may have to travel to Dr Shippen or Dr. Crisler. You really should run all the tests too after being off androgel for a couple weeks to make sure there is not something else obvious causing this. Those tests should include total T, LH, FSH, TSH, prolactin, total estrogen, estradiol at a minimum.
There is no way to know if you can restart you HPTA or not until you try. But it is definitely worth trying since hormone replacement at it's best will not make you feel as well as you did before all this started....plus it's just generally a pain in the a**. See if this new endo will let you try the clomid test where you take clomid for a few weeks and then test for LH and T to see if they responded at all. You must be off the androgel during this test. If your doctor(s) will not give it a try you may have to travel to Dr Shippen or Dr. Crisler. You really should run all the tests too after being off androgel for a couple weeks to make sure there is not something else obvious causing this. Those tests should include total T, LH, FSH, TSH, prolactin, total estrogen, estradiol at a minimum.
Hayfarmer...thanks for the thoughts
here were my numbers from last test...this was being on Androgel for about 60 days at 5mg/day
Total T 318
Free T 7.9
Estradiol 17
Cortisol 11
FSH 1.0
LH 1.1
Prolactin 2.7
DHEA 1.7
I will suggest the clomid test to him....really hate however to be off of any replacement therapy as the side effects really suck.
Was hoping that he would place me on HGC therapy with some T and see what happens.
Have you heard if Nebido is availabe in US yet...if one has to stay on T it sound great.
What were the normal ranges for these hormones? If these were taken at 8am then it appears your cortisol and DHEA are on the low side. Combined with low FSH and LH, that's a sign of pituitary problems. You should probably have a MRI to rule out a pituitary tumor and a stimulation test to verify that your growth hormone is low as well. You should have blood tests for TSH, T3 and T4 to determine the state of your thyroid as well as a blood test for ACTH the hormone that activates cortisol.
Signs of low cortisol may include, low blood pressure, dizzy spells, night sweats, morning backache and loose diahrea like stool along with stomach and gut upset (similar to Crohn's disease symptoms).
PS: was DHEA tested or DHEAS? because DHEA is a worthless test since it remains in the blood for a very short time, DHEAS is the long term form of DHEA.
don't have all the numbers from past as known were taken. Only number recieved prior to getting any supplmental T was the original 308 total T number. Dr. is assuming that since my numbers didn't change at all with the supplemental T, went from 307 to 318, that the other numbers most likely didn't change either....so he feels its safe to say what they are now is what they were prior to starting.
I was checked for Thyroid problems but to my knowledge never pituitary issues. that is a interesting thought.
I will bring it forward to both my normal Dr. and the Endo I am going to see.
What can be done for a pituitary issue? Is it correctable? Treatable?
What can be done for a pituitary issue? Is it correctable? Treatable?
Treatment depends on the cause of the pituitary problem and can be drugs, radiation, surgery or a combination. If in fact your pituitary is damaged then low cortisol can be life threatening in the case of sudden shock such as an accident or high fever. You need to rule out the pituitary fairly soon because lack of treatment can lead to permanent damage.
You should always get copies of your blood tests and keep a record for yourself because each lab has its own set of standards and without knowing the standards the tests are not as useful.
thanks for the possible cause and info...I will discuss it with my endo next week. The question is did my Chron's cause this issue (my dr. thinks so) or is it a parella issue such as a pituitary issue. Not sure but both came on me slowly over the last 2+ years...and both got progressivelly worse together...both came to a head this fall. Treatment for Chron's has shown progress.... TRT has helped some of the symptoms but not all of my problems on other end.
