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Old 08-09-2009, 03:07 PM   #1
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Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

I am Male 41yrs old, 5’11 180lbs. Non smoker light drinker. Take no medication, never really have. Active lifestyle of working out and playing sports.
I have had head trauma twice, July 06 and November 08. December 08 I Started having fatigue and a lack of a sense of well being. In May 2009 I went to urologist to get T tested, was 300. Got shots of Testosterone (200)for a couple of months and felt better but T was still around 300. Urologist gave me 400 testosterone to try. I had a 5 minute episode of double vision 3 days later. This really freaked me out so I went to a neurologist to get an MRI of the pituitary with dye. Vision could have been caused by a large shot (400) of T three days before but better safe than sorry with the pituitary and optical nerve being located so close.
Also had labwork –results were low LH, FSH and of course low Testosterone. Normal cortisal and GH.
I expect results of MRI back tomorrow and have appt with endo on the 12th. If the MRI shows NO tumor, I think I will ask about clomid. Any thoughts? Hayfarmer you there?

 
Old 08-10-2009, 09:31 AM   #2
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hayfarmer HB User
Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

Yes, clomid would be a good thing to try for a few weeks and then test LH, FSH, total T again. Also check estradiol, total estrogen, prolactin, anemia panel (iron, ferritin, TIBC, saturation %), vitamin D 25 OH, TSH......gosh I have forgotten the whole list of things to check. Blows to the head can cause pituitary problems but I doubt they will see anything on the MRI if that is the root cause.

If you can't find the root cause and the MRI finds nothing fixable then you are stuck on replacement or clomid if it works. If on replacement I think it is best to combine it with HCG, or just take HCG alone if that get's your T high enough. When you say a 400 shot of T, do you mean 400 mg? Most injectable T is 100 mg/ml (although there are different strengths) so 400 mg would be 4 ml which is a huge dose.

 
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:31 AM   #3
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

This urologist typically gives either a 200 or 400 dose.... I am thinking that is ml. So yes, big dose - it was supposed to be a months worth.
Three weeks later T was down again anyway so he wants to do 200 every two weeks instead. If it turns out I need T replacement forever he recommends a pellet that can be inserted that is time released, supposed to last 6 months. Sounds good but I want to pursue the root cause before going that route.

Are you aware of any cases where the clomid jump started the pituitary and was no longer necessary?

 
Old 08-13-2009, 11:26 AM   #4
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

MRI of pituitary came back, "normal pituitary"

Here are the numbers for the labs I had, they were taken 3 weeks after a huge 400ml shot of testosterone so my endo wants to redo them after it has been 6 weeks after my last T shot.

LH .3 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH .3 (1.4 - 18.1)
Testosterone 272 (241 - 827)
estradiol 50 (0 - 53)
cortisol 15.7 (3.1 - 22.4)
Growth Hormone .1 (0.0 - 6.0)
progesterone .3 (.3 - 1.2)
ATCH, Plasma 21 6 - 48)

I agree, that T shot probably skewed the numbers so I will go without any more shots until my next labs after labor day. He is having additional hormones tested, I forget which ones.
In the mean time I am not drinking any alchohol, am eating a perfect diet, lifting weights, taking vitamins, and getting the best nights sleep possible.

 
Old 08-17-2009, 05:54 AM   #5
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

Your numbers are terrible. You should feel pretty bad with those the low T and high estradiol you have. There are a number of people who have gone back to normal after being on clomid for a period of months. You need to try the clomid and do a blood test to see if you respond to it. I have the idea your doctor is not very good at this treatment. Giving 400 mg shots weeks apart is a bad idea. You end up on a rollercoaster where T is too high after the shot and too low before the next one, plus estradiol way too high after the shot. He is either doing it that way for convenience (less shots) or because he doesn't understand. T levels going up and down are good but only if they are within a normal range.

You will need to be off shots for at least a month, preferrably 6 weeks to get any valid lab tests. Be prepared to look for another doctor but first see if he will go along with clomid test before you give up on him. If clomid works you may need to combine it with HCG so you can get your T high enough to feel good during the months you are on it.....it just depends on how well you respond to the clomid. HCG is like LH is should stimulate the testes to make more T.

 
Old 08-20-2009, 08:19 PM   #6
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boscot HB Userboscot HB Userboscot HB Userboscot HB Userboscot HB Userboscot HB Userboscot HB User
Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeindallas View Post
MRI of pituitary came back, "normal pituitary"

Here are the numbers for the labs I had, they were taken 3 weeks after a huge 400ml shot of testosterone so my endo wants to redo them after it has been 6 weeks after my last T shot.

LH .3 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH .3 (1.4 - 18.1)
Testosterone 272 (241 - 827)
estradiol 50 (0 - 53)
cortisol 15.7 (3.1 - 22.4)
Growth Hormone .1 (0.0 - 6.0)
progesterone .3 (.3 - 1.2)
ATCH, Plasma 21 6 - 48)

I agree, that T shot probably skewed the numbers so I will go without any more shots until my next labs after labor day. He is having additional hormones tested, I forget which ones.
In the mean time I am not drinking any alchohol, am eating a perfect diet, lifting weights, taking vitamins, and getting the best nights sleep possible.

wow those are bad numbers....but similar to what mine were after I went thru a bout of chrohn's and 5 years of heavy stress. My body type, age and fitness/health level were similar if not better than what you describe...up until this all fell in on me.

physical ailments were there but so was depression anxiety and overall bad feelings. Amazing how many doc's just give you some T and think it will fix it all....it did very little for me, particularly in the ED area. Found a good endo...got on clomid and things have improved.....been on it 4 months....feeling lot better, numbers have shown marked improvement....not where I want them but better....Endo says I need another 9 months on low dose clomid to judge totally.

Good luck on your quest....clomid is defintiely worth a try....my expirence shows that you need to be on it at least 3 months prior to re-testing to see if its working.

Cheers

Lou

 
Old 08-21-2009, 07:47 PM   #7
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

I think I forgot to comment on the pellets. I have not tried them but I am not a fan. My worry is this. T replacement is an art not a science. You will find you are constantly adjusting doses to get things right. If you use pellets you are stuck on that dose for many months....I guess you could add to it with gel or injections but you can't reduce the dose once the pellets are in you. On the upside they can be conveniet.

 
Old 08-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #8
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jakeindallas HB User
Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

I remember my primary physician remarking that I was on the high end of normal fasting blood sugar when I had routine labs a couple of years ago.

I was able to create a timeline of when I started feeling bad and linked that to my diet getting a little sloppy about the same time. I am not overweight (5’11” 180 lbs) but I have put on about 10 extra pounds the last few months.

I have found links to high blood sugar and low testosterone while googling, one study was published in June 2009. So I dropped all processed foods and am only eating meat, eggs, protein powder, vegetables and a little fruit.

Within 7 - 10 days I noticed a change for the better. I feel great! So much I thought maybe feeling great was in my head but I can't explain the fact I am leg pressing a lot of weight, have stamina for cardio, morning wood, high libido, great sex... basically feel perfect except slight worry/anxiety that seems to be improving daily. All this and it has been 22 days since my last shot of 200ml of Testosterone. Heck, I haven’t felt this good even with shots.

I am eager to have my labs redone after Labor Day. In the meantime I will keep up the diet and exercise. If I felt like I do now, I never would have sought medical treatment. I am trying not to get my hopes up but and very optimistic that I may be on to something.

I will post my labs when I get them.

 
Old 09-01-2009, 08:28 PM   #9
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viper911 HB User
Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

I think you're on to something about the high glucose and low testosterone. I have low t and my HgbA1c was mildly elevated, the HgbA1c gives an average of the glycosylated hemoglobin in the blood for the past few months. In any case.. from all the research I have done here are some bullet points from my own conclusion.

1./ Very little is known about low T.
2/ Most endocrine docs do not know much about low t.
3/ We do know the basic hypothalamic, pituitary, testes axis but there are more complex interactions with other hormones which affect low T.
4/ T replacement will suppress your pituitary to a point of very low or undetectable levels of LH and FSH, essentialyl shutting down the pituitary which is not discussed when docs prescribe T replacement.
5/ THere are several known causes of low T such as pituitary non secretory tumors, or compressive pituitary tumors, hemochromatosis (iron over load storage problem), chronic narcotic use very well documented and exogenous steroid abusers in the weight lifting community. I am not sure if there is any evidence of high stress with increased cortisol secretion as a cause of low T.
6/ I have some theories that there may be an environmental or dietary factor which is causing all these cases of Low T in young individuals, guys around 21-28 with very low T levels, levels well below 250-300.
7/ There are controversy as to what constitutes a normal T level, if you ask the makers of androgel, they will say it's on a sliding scale according to age, with the younger guys normal levels inthe 700's and older guys in the 90's having a level of 200's.
8/ Unless you had a T level when you were feeling well, there's no way to know what your normal levels should be, that is why clinicians should use clinical symptoms in conjunction with low normal or low levels as a tool.
9/ what i do recommend is that us guys with low t levels try to eliminate all potential sources or causes of low t, like avoiding smoking, alcohol.
10/ I recommend decreasing stress, exercising more (anaerobic exercise increases T while aerobic may reduce t), sleeping a good 8 hours per day, eating a well balanced diet with high protein, low in carbs, and plenty of vegetables and fruit, and try to eat every 4 hours instead of huge meals twice or three times a day. Remember to never eat to a point of very full feeling and never wait until your starving to eat.
11/ I recommend getting a full work up with complete hormone panels, MRI of pituitary with gado contrast, and seeing a very competent endocrinologist.
12/ get the work up before starting any T replacement , once you're on replacment it messes up the lab results.

Good luck to all,

I for one have been off T replacement and have felt better and recently have felt worse again, with symptoms of fatigue, head fogginess, and afternoon low energy, with frequent yawning, and fatigue or feeling of uneasiness after eating. I will continue to let my body attempt to repair it self rather than give in to T replacement, these companies know that once you are on T its forever, companies like testim and androgel.

Viper 911

Last edited by Mod-S4; 09-02-2009 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Unnecessary quote removed.

 
Old 09-02-2009, 11:02 AM   #10
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

I consistently tested 300 ML of Testosterone, with or without shots. Since my problem was secondary, instead of adding to my testosterone levels, the shots only replaced the meager amount I was making. Not good.

May 5th Testosterone =300
May 5th received 200ml injection Testosterone
June 3rd received 200ml injection Testosterone
June 17 Testosterone=260
July 1st received 400ml injection Testosterone
July 20 Testosterone = 330
August 3rd received 200ml injection Testosterone
August 11th Testosterone =100


I was supposed to get a shot on the 14th, two weeks after my last one. Instead I skipped it. A week later major changes took place, about 10 days after I changed my diet. I felt perfect, no symptoms. I thought wow, I am cured! I went and got my T tested and was shocked to find it was only 100!!! How could that be? I felt better than I had in a long time!?
I think I have the answer. The test measures “Free testosterone” which supposedly is unbound, hence it shows up in the test. Free testosterone is supposed to be a fraction of total testosterone, the majority being bound to SHGB and albumin.
My previous carb laden diet must have resulted in either no SHGB being produced, or interfered with the binding process. Obviously something major happened for me to go from a consistent 300 to 100 in such a short time and I felt such an improvement.
Now I hope that my Free AND total testosterone will go up, as should my LH and FSH.

As it stands today, it has been over a month since I have had any shots. I am eating like a diabetic (even though I am not diabetic). I have backed off of exercise because I am trying to ration my testosterone, not using all that I produce each day so I can save some and put it in the “bank”. I feel great. My mood, interests, morning wood are all there. My energy and stamina are around 85%.
I only have one testicle (motorcycle crash in ’06) so it may take me months to reach optimum levels.
I get my labs done next week and am mainly looking for an increase in LH and FSH.

BTW, I just went to the local drug store and got the kit for testing my blood sugar. It only cost 14 bucks and is easy to do.
* Disallowed website and related information removed by hb-mod, moderator *


It is a hard read but maybe some of you guys can make sense of it better than I could!

Last edited by hb-mod; 09-02-2009 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Please don't post disallowed websites as per Posting Policy. Thanks.

 
Old 09-07-2009, 08:22 PM   #11
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hayfarmer HB User
Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

Viper has many good points in his post. But everyone with low T does have to keep on top of it. If the life changes (diet, exercise, etc etc... ) do not resolve it you can not go on with low T. Even if you can live with the sexual side effects there are many dangerous disease states that can come about by having low T for an extended period....heart disease, osterperosis, etc...

One point I really like from Viper is about having your T level tested when you are normal. Please, think of your sons if you have any. Have them test their hormone levels when they are in their late teens or early 20's before any problems develop. Then they will know what is normal and what is not for them.

 
Old 09-10-2009, 08:04 AM   #12
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

Amen to those statements.....I will have my son done when he is old enough....my doctors can only guess at my norm.....about 800 they think considering my body type muscularity etc. but who really knows for sure.

My levels getting back to normal have really improved my overall health both physcial and mental...now just need the last part for sexual health and I will be great.

good luck to all it is a real challenge

Lou

 
Old 09-14-2009, 12:51 PM   #13
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Re: Low LH, FSH and Testosterone

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeindallas View Post
MRI of pituitary came back, "normal pituitary"

Here are the numbers for the labs I had, they were taken 3 weeks after a huge 400ml shot of testosterone so my endo wants to redo them after it has been 6 weeks after my last T shot.

LH .3 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH .3 (1.4 - 18.1)
Testosterone 272 (241 - 827)
estradiol 50 (0 - 53)
cortisol 15.7 (3.1 - 22.4)
Growth Hormone .1 (0.0 - 6.0)
Progesterone .3 (.3 - 1.2)
ATCH, Plasma 21 6 - 48)

I agree that T shot probably skewed the numbers so I will go without any more shots until my next labs after Labor Day. He is having additional hormones tested, I forget which ones.
In the mean time I am not drinking any alcohol, am eating a perfect diet, lifting weights, taking vitamins, and getting the best nights sleep possible.
Got my labs:

LH 1.9 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH 6.6 (1.4- 18.1)
Testosterone 386
Testosterone free+weakly 19.3 (9.0 -46.0)
Testosterone f+W Bound 74.5 (40.0 - 250.0
Prolactin 3.4 (2.1 - 17.7)
SHGB 30 (1.3 - 71)

Here is the deal,
When this ordeal started, my T was 300. With shots it was 300. What I did was cut out all alcohol, sugar; basically I have been eating like a diabetic. Google it, you will find links to low testosterone and high blood sugar. Some studies seem to indicate low testosterone causes high blood sugar. Other studies say high blood sugar causes low testosterone. Either way I was caught in a self feeding cycle of both.

The above labs are a huge improvement from where I was. More importantly I feel great. Since I only have one testicle (motorcycle crash) it may take a while for my numbers to get totally back to normal. It has only been 5 weeks of changing my diet and NO SHOTS.

I saw a neurologist, urologist and endocrinologist. None even suggested I have my blood sugar tested. I went to the local drug store and spent 14 bucks and did it myself every morning and adjusted my diet accordingly.

I really hope this helps someone out there. It was this board that prompted me to get my pituitary hormones tested in the first place.

 
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