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Old 09-06-2008, 12:11 PM   #1
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Being told no... can I vent for a minute?

hey gang. Hoping you will send some actual advice on this one. You all know my story- and know that my marriage is in shambles. The last few months, since I quit my "superjob" have been really tough on us financially as well as emotionally. Once I accepted that what I am doing now is better for me, I really gave it my best shot. Since it is working out, healthwise, I started thinking I can increase my hours again. BUT easier said then done. SO I started thinking about what I really want to do, and the answer is return to school for my PhD, its huge! And Expensive! And of course the big question is, if I get the degree, what will I do with it? I have no answers for that; but my doctors are supportive, stating that brain activity is probably what is keeping me from being swallowed up by my black holes. My family of course thinks I am crazy...but the biggest issue is my spouse. Im actually considering leaving him at times right now, I know he loves me, and I know he isnt threatened by MS- heck in his world, if you cant see it, it doesnt exist. I also know that I need his health benefits and possibly in the future, might even need him; but RIGHT NOW I dont need to be told NO to everything that I think I can do. I am tired of being looked at as someone who "couldnt do something a few months ago" not being able to ever do it again. I think I can.

Ive tried to discuss with him taking student loans and doing this school thing- to which he responds "you dont even know if youll make it thru school and if you cant work when its over how will you pay back the loans?" I get it. Valid question to ask...but instead of saying something positive, or thinking we will worry about it when and if it happens, he basically put his foot down and said no. Well, I dont need him to cosign the loans and I certainly dont need him to allow me to go to school; however life as we know it will change. Consortiums around the country- me having to do alot more computer work- me being less available ME BEING ME again. Never was I happier then when i was a student. And, if I could, Id do it in a classroom atmospherer, but I do think that is asking too much...online, it could be done easier.

And I could stil work parttime.

so, I guess my question is: do any of you ever have to PROVE anything to your spouses or significant others and how do you do it? For a guy who knows nothing about MS and refuses to educate himself or be educated- he seems pretty opinionated on what my capabilites or limits are. Im frustrated and finding out that I just about hate him these days. They say marriages are challenged by MS; Ive now honestly seen exactly how this disease can tear a family apart.

any suggestions?
Nikki
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RRMS- dx 05
Rebif 2005-2011
LDN Sept. 2011
"Every New Beginning Comes From Some Other Beginning's End"

 
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:22 PM   #2
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Re: Being told no... can I vent for a minute?

Gosh, I really don't think I have any good advice for you but you're welcome to use my shoulder. We're going through something similar in our relationship. I'm a nurse (3 years now) and want to go back to school for accounting. I've mentioned several times over the years but have never taken any action. Last year I spent $10,000 on half the credits I need for a bachelor's of nursing and, if I choose to go into accounting, it's basically wasted money. I regret that.

School is incredibly fun, but incredibly expensive. Wanting to go back to school is a great goal, but I do agree that you should be looking at where your degree can lead you. Whether you have an chronic disease or not, getting bogged down in 10s of thousands of dollars in school loans is not fun. It can make your future unhappy, and who ever feels at easy when you have $20,000 or more of school loans hanging over your head?

 
Old 09-06-2008, 02:04 PM   #3
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Re: Being told no... can I vent for a minute?

Hi Nikki. Excuse please the anticipated length, you know how I am. My opinion is that if you want to get your PhD, go for it. I also think that keeping our brains active will help keep our brains working--I don't know if this has been studied or proven, but I don't care. I believe it, and I practice it. You are a very intelligent woman! Even if you end up immobile, there are certainly things you'd be able to do with a PhD.

I have a friend, in her 50's, who is working towards her PhD. She can't afford it, and plans to take one class a semester for the rest of her life so she doesn't have to pay her school loans (she doesn't have to start paying back until she's "done" with school). I don't know if her plan will work, but she's determined to get that PhD, at whatever cost. She's happy too, glowing. Despite our age difference, we are extremely good friends--I love this woman like a sister, and I've never seen her so happy. I wouldn't give up on the idea of going for it, Nikki!

I also feel the need to prove things to my husband, and lately my father. MS does impact families. Last time I saw Dad he mentioned that a friend's wife had to go on disability for Fibro. He said "Fibromyalgia is the worst disease, you're lucky you don't have that." When my husband mentioned to Dad that sometimes I use a cane, Dad said that he didn't raise his daughters to be weak. I would love to prove so much to him, and I wish I could educate him, but he knows everything.

My marriage has thankfully improved--so far MS has been a huge test, and we are passing, finally, or we're beginning to. But my husband will still tell me NO sometimes. The good thing though is that when I do accomplish something, he tells me he's proud of me. Recently he told me that he's proud of me every minute of every day, and I believe him. This makes it easier for me to accept defeat, and to say yes, you're right, I can't do such and such. My pride and stubborness make that very hard.

Before I joined the presidential campaign I was working for, he said I couldn't do it. It only pushed me to work harder on it. Unfortunately he ended up being right, and I had to quit. But I'm still working on a local campaign. Also with my job, it would be perfectly fine to work a 40 hour week, and husband says that's enough. Still, I find myself working at least 45 hours a week just to prove that I can work more than that. It's not for money; I don't get paid for the extra hours!

You say you are happiest as a student--that is a profound statement. I understand; I'm happiest too when using my brain, especially learning. Nikki, that's not something easy or good for you to give up. If I gave it up, life would lose its charm. I'm not in a classroom; I have 1,500 books and I'm an amateur historian and anthropologist trying to write a book. Husband doesn't think I can do it, and I have doubts, but I won't give it up because life would be kind of dull, I'd feel unfulfilled. I'm sure you get that!

If you stayed in a marriage that is making you miserable, hearing "NO" all the time, what will that do to you? I totally understand the concepts of loyalty, of not wanting to give up on a committment, and of being dependent for things (like insurance or money) on someone, and it's a tough spot. Those things are important. But at what cost?

As far as the cost of going back to school, and I don't mean to belittle the financial aspect, but why not cross that bridge when you get to it? You may qualify for financial aid, for a lot of it, and it may not be so terrible. School loan debt is not necessarily bad debt. And what will the debt mean to you if you succeed in getting the degree? I bet it won't mean much to you. It took me five years to pay off the small amount of school debt I acquired, and it didn't matter to me. It was worth every penny, and every sacrifice.

And what to do with the degree, and there's the uncertainty of whether or not you'll be in a position to use it. Certainly these things deserve more thought, but the degree will also open up a lot of options for you. You could do something incredible and profitable online, for instance. It would be an enormous accomplishment, in my opinion, even if you didn't use it. We all know that there are some PhDs that are pretty worthless monetarily, but most are not.

I don't have answers for you, and this is complicated. I just have a very strong gut feeling that if being a student makes you happy, makes you The Real Nikki, that you should by all means do it. And don't forget that you already got a degree while getting sick and getting diagnosed. You may not be perfectly healthy, but this may be a goal that is worth a try. You obviously have a lot of strength (if not physical) in you, and I don't think that you finishing up and getting your PhD is unattainable. Actually, I think it's very likely, considering the person you are!

Sorry for the length and my bluntness. No matter what, don't think you can't vent here. I'm sorry that you sound so unhappy, and you know what can change that, but it's scary. For what it's worth, you have my support in whatever you decide to do.
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Old 09-06-2008, 05:02 PM   #4
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Re: Being told no... can I vent for a minute?

hello Delilah and April. Thank u both for taking the time to respond.
Delilah, im not entirely certain i can agree with your answer, but I still appreciate that you offered me your shoulder! Having school loans is the least of my problems and not even a reason to think twice about this. Ive been a student most of the last 10 years- and finished my MBA 2 months after I was dx with MS. I never thought I could finish at that time, being that I was working 40 hours a week, carrying 18 credits and was valedictorian of an Ivy League school, but I did it....so fear is not something I allow into my life as far as money is concerned. But I see your point, and more then anything else, appreciate your offer of support. THAT is what this place is about.

April, my friend...I knew you would respond the way you did. And, I agree with everything you said, Maybe I was just trying to look into the 'mirror"
Especially what you said about 'good debt' I get that and in fact an a huge advocate of it! Remember last year, My husband bought me this car? Its been driven, alittle. Im afraid of it. Its so fast and powerful- but every month i make the stupid payment on it (thank goodness he paid half of it in cash) and its almost gone (the payments) but yet- I look at that car, and I see a diploma. He will NOT let me sell it either. (heck at this point, I might be living in it, but at least its a really pretty car!) anyway, I totally get where you are coming from with having to prove things. I didnt know what was going on with your dad recently, and Im sorry to hear it. Interestingly enough, i sat down with my father last week and cried my eyes out to him and he actually "got it" for the first time in my life, dad and I connected! Too bad he lives in a nursing home, is only aware of his world 1/2 the time and lives 4 hours away, but for a few minutes there, it was nice. You understand where Im really afraid, dont you? Im scared to death to fail at this marriage..and will NOT allow MS to be the reason. Maybe thats why im so consciously picking this fight. Its easier to argue that school is good for my future then worry about MS taking me down. Both fights are a thorn in my husband's side, but Im actualy picking the less of two evils in my own mind. Hmmm. See, you did make me think, thank you.

I also have a friend who is right around 50 doing her PhD. Its tough and I realize how tough it will be! And I also realize that there are many things I can do with it...but I guess I used up the allotment of "that excuse' when I pushed to do my MBA. Remember, I didnt go to college until I was 32 years old. I got married at 36, already into my BS degree, and continued on..Im 40 now and still loving this whole school idea. My job is a dead end, something happend the other day, where i volunteered my services to help an engineer with a marketing project he is totally ignorant of; and was told by my boss we have an entire marketing department to handle that, but you could call and set up a meeting with one of them. I was blown away. They see me as a secretary now? My goodness, my job is marketing coordinator! So, now I know what Im coordinating- but up until this point thats the first time they gave me an administrative duty! I went to him and reminded him that an MBA in marketing, and 8 years of experience with this type of work, qualifies me to help with this type of project and please let me show him what I was capable of. His next response was "cant. your only parttime. I need a fulltime person backing this up". I offered to work any and all extra hours, I offered to do everything but shine his shoes and walked out of their thoroughly beaten down. SO, I retaliate I guess by wanting something he doesnt have - a higher degree! Keep in mind that this isnt really my motivation, it was just timely..and my husband is a construction worker with no college education at all. Im not a snob on this subject- but what is important to one person is not always important to the next and THIS IS IMPORTANT to me. Proving to myself I can do it is my motivation. No one else....

Thanks for letting me vent April. What you said gave me alot to think about...will keep you posted..and if you happen to see a car parked on the side of the road which appears to have a girl and a cat living in it, introduce yourself....could be us! Much as it pains me, much as its killing me, Im realy starting to wonder about my future with my husband. And, trust me, that is more painful then anything Ive encountered MSwise.

hugs
Nikki
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RRMS- dx 05
Rebif 2005-2011
LDN Sept. 2011
"Every New Beginning Comes From Some Other Beginning's End"

 
Old 09-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #5
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Re: Being told no... can I vent for a minute?

Hey Nikki,

Being I'm divorced, I may not be a good one to give good advice. (But that's never stopped me b4.) I say it's your life so do what you want. God doesn't promise us the next breath. When I was in my 20's I developed ALL (leukemia) and during that time I went back for my MBA. My ex didn't really support me in doing that, nor did she really support me with my illness. (Amazing how one becomes able to drive a car on 120mgs of prednisone a day for months at a time.)

Funny, recently I've been thinking about going back to law school. It would be part-time and fortunately my company would pay for most of it. I think we MSers are all in the position that if we want to do it, than do it. Don't let anything get in your way.

As i said I am not a good one to give any advice. I have been single now for nearly 8 years and have absolutely no desire to ever get involved with anyone ever again. I make my own decisions, spend my money without asking, and come and go as I please. I'll stop there on that thought.

Nikki, you're an intelligent person and it would be a shame for you not to fulfill your own personal desires. I wish you the best sweetie.
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