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Old 11-30-2007, 01:05 AM   #1
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Bleeding under nails with no trauma

A little over a month ago, my right big toe nail developed bleeding under it, for no reason. It took up 1/2 the nail area. It then started to fade, and turned into a beige color. Then a month after this began my left big toe nail developed the same kind of bleeding. Again, taking up over 1/2 of the nail. Then, a couple of weeks later the original toe nail on the right, developed a thinner bloody streak under it, (horizontal). I have been very sedendary, sitting for 20 hours a day at my computer. I have been barefoot most of the time. There was no trauma. I am under huge financial and personal stress.
(I am trying to save my house).

I have new health insurance, (managed care). When the thinner line of bleeding occured, i decided to go to the dr. He broke off a wooden end of a q-tip, and dug under the right toe nail. (he said the nail had become detached in that area). He asked if it was a fungus prior, but I told him there had been no fungus. He told me to go home, and take an emory board and sand off 1/2 of my toenal myself. Then take any old toothbrush I have in my drawer, and brush away the brown area. I said I thought this sounded unsanitary, and that i worried about infection, as I could contact my blood supply, (there is bleeding). I asked if he woudl authorize a referal to a podiatrist. In repsonse he said "we are not going to pay for that". Now the toe he dug into is red and swelling. I called the nurses, at the clinic, and they said they thought his advice was ok. I think it was horrible. And we do not know why this bleeding is occuring. Now I have pain. I want to see a podiatrist. Should I just go on my own, and get a huge bill? Or, is this dr. correct, and I should just sand off the nail and use a toothbrush, and not worry about it?
thanks,
I am over 50.
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Old 11-30-2007, 05:08 AM   #2
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

Are you diabetic or do you have any other health problems such as circulation, high blood pressure and the like? I need to know that first!

Also, it is a good idea to file the nail as short as you can and to apply a drop or two of peroxide to each affected toe. SO NOT dig underneath it as this can separate the nail from the nail bed and cause even more pain. Yes, it is a good idea to scrub the nails, but you MUST sanitize the toothbrush first. Mix 1 part clorox to 10 parts water to make your sanitizing solution. Scrub the toothbrush with warm soapy water an drinse it really well. Totally immerse the head of the brush in the solution and leave it there for a full 10 minutes. Removeit from the solution and wash it with warm soapy water and rinse it really well again. Dry it as good as you can and then keep it in a sealed container until you are ready to use it. You can use a ziplok baggie to store it. Sanitize it after each use following the same instructions.

Shame on that doctor for not using the correct tools for the job. There is a curette that they normally use for this procedure which is sanitized before they use it. I would complain to your insurance company and ask them if you can go see a podiatrist for your problem - OR see if you can go to a different doctor.

Last edited by Marti; 11-30-2007 at 05:13 AM.

 
Old 11-30-2007, 10:36 AM   #3
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

Hi--
Thanks for your reply. I am not a diabetic, (as far as I know), and I have low blood pressure. I do not know if this is because i have been sitting for so many hours per day, (though I have been elevating my feet). Just before this started happening, my ankles had periods of swelling, (I never had swelling before). Since the bleeding started, the swelling has not occured. I wondered if these things are related. The swelling was like a puffy lump, on the outside of each ankle, just above the bone that protrudes.

 
Old 11-30-2007, 10:42 AM   #4
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

Sitting for hours can cause swelling in the feet and ankles. You need to get up at least every hour and move around for no less than 10 minutes. Swelling can cause the toes to swell as well which can build up blood, fluids and oils in the nail bed. If your feet swell like this again, go see your doctor so he can treat the swelling. You may need to take fluid pills to help control the swelling, but getting up and walking will help as well.

 
Old 11-30-2007, 05:24 PM   #5
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

I saw 2 podiatrists today. One who is associated with my managed card medical group. He did not examine the toes at all, but just glanced at them, and said to just wait a year until they grow out. He also said it could be related to a certain kind of anemia, and ordered blood tests to check this.

The 2nd podiatrist, not associated with my managed care group, said something had to cause the bleeding, and it is good to find out what. He outlined possibilities. He wants to do an xray to rule out bone growths, that may be occuring under the nail bed. And he wants to remove the nail to examine the tisse, and see if he can find the cause. He also said you can not rule out melenoma, since the bleeding occured spontaneously, so wants to do a biopsy.

It seems like the 2nd dr. is actually concerned about what may have caused this, and does not think it is normal to spontaneously bleed under my nails. My managed care dr. and the podiatrist associated with them seem to just want to reduce expenditures. This seems unethical to me. i am glad I found the 2nd podiatrist.

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Old 11-30-2007, 05:26 PM   #6
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

Just wanted to add, that the dr. unassociated with my managed care group palpitated the toes and found them sensitive and painful. The other drs. did not bother to do this.

 
Old 11-30-2007, 08:49 PM   #7
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

Sitting up to 20 hours at your computer, on the couch or whatever can cause swelling and pain in your lower extremeties. It can also restrict the blood flow to your lower legs and feet. Like I said, get up for at least 10 minutes every hour and walk around - don't just stand, walk! You need to keep the circulation going.

 
Old 12-08-2007, 12:24 AM   #8
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

Now, the past 2 days, groups of black well defined dots, varing in size from about the size of a pencil lead to the size of a q-tip wand, (not the cotton end), have appeared under both nails. the bleeding/bruising is still dark red and purple under the left toenail. Also, under the right, a new splinter-like purple area appeared. It is horizontal, and coming from the side of the nail. It ia about 1/3 of an inch long by 1/8 of an inch wide. My primary care dr. had xrays taken, which showed nothing. my blood tests showed:
RBC: 4.16
Leukocyte: 4.9
iron: 54
tibc: 253
protime: 13.7
PTT: 30
FERRITIN 30
My dr. said just to wait to see what happens. Should I get another opinion?
What are these black dots? They are very black.
thanks

 
Old 12-09-2007, 05:54 AM   #9
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

The black spots are probably blood that is filling up the spaces between the nail bed and the nail plate. If you are sitting up to 20 hours a day, you are depriving your feet of a much needed blood supply. Do your feet get cold when you are sitting - do they get numb - do your ankles swell up?

 
Old 12-09-2007, 10:19 AM   #10
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

I am not sitting this long any more.
I had some ankle swelling, in august and sept. but once the bleeding started, i didn't have any more swelling.

my feet are always hot/never cold.

they are never numb.

thanks,

 
Old 12-09-2007, 11:09 AM   #11
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

It defies what I know! And your primary physician refuses to send you to an orthopedic specialist? Seems to me that you need one! Did you say they checked your blood sugar levels?

Last edited by Marti; 12-09-2007 at 11:09 AM.

 
Old 12-09-2007, 01:24 PM   #12
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

no, they did not check my blood sugar levels.
i went to a prodiatrist, (I paid for), and he said do xrays, and then do biopsy, to rule out, as even though bilateral makes it unlikely, it needs to be ruled out. and he said you need to find the cause.
managed care primary drs. say they will not ok a biopsy, and i need to wait a year and see what happens.
it does not seem healthy or normal, and new things keep occuring, so it worries me. Not so much thinking it is cancer, but i want some sort of explanation/cause.
?

Last edited by KE274; 12-09-2007 at 01:33 PM. Reason: forgot yo add complete info

 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:02 AM   #13
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

I don't blame you! ANY change in the nail plate is cause for concern and bleeding under the nail plate comes under that category. I do not suspect melanoma because it is characterized by a wide dark brown line that runs from the cuticle straight out to the free edge. You are not experiencing that since you have numerous lines of hematoma. I'll ask a few industry experts to see if they might have an answer. I will post again when I get their answers.

Please go to my website and click on the link for Nail Disorders. Scroll down to the one for Nail Melanoma (nail mole) to see if your nails look anything like this. If not, you do not need a biopsy to rule out cancer. [url]www.hooked-on-nails.com[/url] (link approved by Moderator 1.)

Last edited by Marti; 12-10-2007 at 05:04 AM.

 
Old 12-12-2007, 06:12 AM   #14
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

This may seem like the obvious but did you wear a shoe that your toenails could have been rubbing if it was too tight? I bought a pair of boots and walked the mall one time and they caused my big toe nail to have a huge blood blister under it.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:52 AM   #15
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Re: Bleeding under nails with no trauma

No. I have been barefoot most of the time, when this began, working on the computer 20 hours a day. And my shoes are the same I have had for 2 years. very roomy. thanks for your comment.

 
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