Testosterone, Estradiol and Forteo - Osteoporosis Message Board

osteoblast · 11-09-2007, 01:11 PM

Hi folks! I have been on forteo for a little over a year now and while labs show bone turnover has increased alot, little improvement was shown on dexa. It wasn't the same dexa machine that I was previously tested on -so that might have confused things a little. Also, I know some say don't look for density changes so early it takes time.
I am post menopausal 55, and never did hrt. But, now I seem to be losing muscle mass , despite alot of exercise and weight lifting. I have read this could be related to low testosterone. Maybe it is something else - I don't know. I have an appt. soon to see a gyno about hormones to see if anything could help with the muscle loss. I am having other post meno changes that I don't like .Let's just say it has to do with one of the basic drives . Anyway. My thinking now is that loss of muscle mass is not a good thing because as muscle pulls on bone it makes the bone stronger. I have just done so much weightlifting over the past year that my lack of contour and bulge doesn't make sense to me. My main concern is not the lack of contour though but rather trying to get the effect of muscle to strengthen bone.
Also, as I didn't do hrt -too spooked with all the studies. I just wonder if now I should do something . I have read about very low dose estradiol and positive effects on bone density BUT I also read it slows turnover. If it slows turnover that would probably be contraindicated with the forteo now which is supposed to amp up the turnover.
Does anyone have any thoughts about testosterone-estradiol - or other hormones. I was so negative on all this stuff but I am now more open minded because I am on a mission to help my bones. Breast cancer has not hit my family -so that risk is probably not great, although breast cancer seems so prevalent now that I don't think anyone is safe.

starfish81 · 11-09-2007, 01:45 PM

I've been on bio-identical testosterone, progesterone, and DHEA for a couple of years now. I was on estradiol too but had to stop it after a few months-no specialist could figure out why I was getting dizzy spells along with blood pressure drops and then my primary care said it was probably the estrogen and sure enough......Anyway, none of the above has done anything for my BMD or anything else related to menopause either for that matter (including what you mentioned), with the exception of relieving hot flashes. I do have more muscle mass, but that could be because I've been working with a personal trainer for over a year now-testosterone may have helped, but I'm not sure.

You may be wondering how testosterone can alleviate hot flashes when it's estrogen that doctors keep recommending for that. Well, apparently testosterone breaks down (referred to as "cascading" according to the age-management clinic where I get them) into an estrogen by-product IF the body requires that particular hormone.

I don't want to have to use these substances the rest of my life, so I discussed this with my acupuncturist a couple of weeks ago and she suggested using them (they're topicals) every other day instead of daily. I did that, and don't feel any different. Thus, I'm thinking the time has come to wean myself off entirely. I've never used Forteo so am not sure how that would interact with bio-identical hormones.

starfish81 · 11-09-2007, 01:51 PM

Osteoblast-just thought of something else. I complained to my trainer that, despite all the weights I'm doing, I just don't have the muscle definition that I hoped for (I have more muscle, according to tests done with fat calipers and special scales, it just doesn't show). She said that certain body types will never get that sculptured look no matter how hard they try. She says because I'm tall and slim, my muscles are proportionally longer and therefore won't achieve the bulk that a mesomorphic body would. Don't ask me how to explain why ballet dancers have legs like they do......I'm just repeating what was told to me

osteoblast · 11-09-2007, 02:18 PM

Starfish-hmmm it looks like all the things I was considering , you have tried and haven't found to be of much help at all. That is not very encouraging. Are you several years post meno too?
About muscle definition, just a few years ago when I walked with ankle weights I had a muscle that sort of sculpted my lower leg - I liked that.Now, I just can't seem to get that muscle to come out again. Also my biceps which used to show a mini bulge when I lifted weights are not happening either. Well, I will just continue because I have to do what I can do even if visible results are not there.
From what I have read maybe just maybe it is the lack of testosterone that is the reason for the lack of muscle development. Perhaps it has helped you.Do you think you had any negative reactions to the testosterone?? Maybe it is hard to say because you are taking a number of the hormones together.
I wonder if a mainstream md gyno would prescribe testosterone?
Did you also try HGH?

starfish81 · 11-09-2007, 05:18 PM

Hi Osteoblast-I'm 51 and began menopause at 48 (naturally) so guess I'm a few years post. I had absolutely no adverse reactions to the testosterone or progesterone. Fortunately, everything I was using came separately, so was able to cut back on this & that until I found a combination that worked. For sure it was the estradiol that caused the dizziness and blood pressure drops. I'm only too happy to be off that!

And yes, I'm the one who spent a small fortune on HgH injections-only to experience a 6% lumbar BMD drop over the year I was doing it. It did wonderful things for my waistline

but not the bones. The age-management clinic doctors said they'd never had anyone lose BMD while on it; guess I'm a first.

Most would disagree with me, but the fact that nothing works on me to increase BMD has led me to believe that my losses may indeed be a natural thing for my body. Actually, I wish I'd never had the DEXAs in the first place

. Sure my lumbar score (-3.4) looks awful on paper, but I'm strong, healthy, and look great for my age. I eat right, exercise lots (including bends, twists and stretches of all those supposedly "diseased" vertebrae) and have never broken anything despite some spectacular falls skiing. I'm 5'6 and a half and 125lb and have very small wrists and ankles-so I wouldn't expect my BMD to parallel that of a beefy 20-something

.