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Old 02-04-2008, 07:03 AM   #1
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podiecat HB User
Using compounded progesterone for building bone

I just found the following on a site and would be interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with this.

Quote:
The proper treatment for osteoporosis is not osteoclast inhibitors, but rather osteoblast stimulation, mainly provided by natural progesterone (not Provera), testosterone, and human growth hormone.
I'm very nervous about trying most substances but I am curious...

I also found this at the same site:

Quote:
WHO's definitions transformed the majority of post menopausal women whose bones were aging normally into "patients" who have a "disease." It turns out that the WHO study group that developed the criteria for diagnosing osteoporosis and osteopenia was funded by three drug companies. Funding itself does not automatically impugn the conclusions of the study group. But, the conclusions did happen to be in the drug companies' interest. Shortly after the reports drugs that had been in the pipeline were released for consumption.

There has NEVER been a randomized controlled study done to determine whether there is a benefit to screening women for osteoporosis with Bone Mineral Density tests. Nonetheless, the current recommendations call for women to have the test - even though there is no proof that the test offers a health benefit.

Without drugs like Fosamax¬ģ women with osteoporosis had a 99.5% chance of making it through the year WITHOUT a hip fracture. Adding Fosamax changed that figure to 99.8%. The overall improvement was from 0.5% risk to 0.2% risk. The difference between those two risk factors is calculated at 56%. The bottom line is that 81 women with osteoporosis have to take Fosamax for 4.2 years, at a cost of over $300,000, to prevent one hip fracture.
I'm sure that most of you know this already but his wording was very clear.

~carol

 
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:16 AM   #2
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osteoblast HB User
Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Hi podiecat- That is interesting information about the WHO study- I had been wondering how that was funded. If what you have found is correct , it is disheartening.
I too have seen the information about progesterone. I believe it is a Dr. John Lee who was the principal researcher who came out with this information. I found a book that he wrote at the local library. Perhaps your library would carry his book as well. It is important to note that there are others who say there is no validity to the progesterone theory and that Dr. Lee's studies were not adequate.
How is your search for an osteoporosis and endocrine specialist going? Do you think you will end up going to University of Vermont Medical? I hope you are doing betterTake care.

Last edited by osteoblast; 02-04-2008 at 10:18 AM.

 
Old 02-04-2008, 11:00 AM   #3
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Hi Osteoblast,

I was doing better in both body and mind for a week but I've crashed again. As to the clinics, my doctor is just outside Burlington and sends patients to those clinics. When I asked her about it (what you found out), she said that they maybe could help figure out something but they would definitely push biphosphonates. I just made an appointment with my inadequate doctor. She said that my thyroid tests came back okay. Do you know how often someone with severe osteoporosis should have D levels and those of the minerals checked? I will have the Ntx done - it has not been redone since about a year ago when it was not good at all. When I spoke to the doctor at EZORB, I was told that even if the EZORB was working, it would not change my Ntx score - so I did not repeat it.

What do you think about this? He said that since the reason for the osteoporosis has not changed - the Ntx would be the same - and that the DEXA is the only thing that proves the EZORB is working. The DEXA showing -4.0 is not very reassuring!!!

I keep trying to tell myself that it was only about six months ago that I found out I was on TOO much thyroid and lowered that dose. And that I've been on EZORB for only about 3/4 of a year.

I was severely depressed before my osteoporosis was thrown at me (menopause). It has just made it more challenging. I know I'm out of balance - I can feel it.....

Thanks for your caring and understanding. Sorry to spout out.....

~carol

 
Old 02-04-2008, 11:39 AM   #4
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osteoblast HB User
Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Podiecat-Please do not be sorry about anything! It's ok. Spout off as needed- no problem!
About the doctors at UVM, the reason that I think it would be valuable for you to see someone there would be more in the diagnostic area. I know you are not interested in bisphos. and have tried to pursue other options. My thinking is that if you had an osteo specialist and an endocrine specialist available to look at your total picture and see if there is something that is in an imbalanced state , maybe you would have more information on which to make a better decision. Those specialists would likely look at your current ntx. Regarding the E-Zorb , I don't really know what to say .

About frequency of vit d testing- I think you need to find out what level of supplementation you need. And, that fine tuning may require tests each 3 months or so to figure out what gets you to the level desired. Also beware of the winter effect where your vit d will likely decline if your level is good in midsummer during which time you take supplements and get sun exposure, that same amount of supplement with no sun in winter will probably not maintain your level. It will just take some time and experimentation.Not so complicated-just a process to work through. But very important for our bone health. I understand some people have trouble with vit d metabolism- so just another reason , considering your bmd to have a specialist looking at this to rule out that problem.
It's likely going to take a bit of time to get your situation sorted out. Hang in there!
P.S.-I was wondering-what is a podiecat??

 
Old 02-04-2008, 12:14 PM   #5
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Podie is the name of my female Maine Coon cat. I could not think of another screen name so I became podiecat.

Yes, I have known for three years that I need to find someone to help figure out what is going on. I've tried many different doctors with no luck. They just don't want to do the detective work - and I'm now very worn out. I would get my hopes up and then crash when it turned out to be the same 'ole - same 'ole. I had to fight for a year to have my D level checked. The 1-25-D came out very high on the first one so my doctor at that time decided that I must have a TH1 disease and I should follow the Marshall Protocol - very scary!!! He refused to learn about mastocytosis and would not listen to me so I switched doctors AGAIN. Right after that I had the D levels checked again and they looked okay so the doctor does not want to run them again. I will talk to her about that clinic - or another one.

My reality is that the osteoporosis is probably not as lethal as my depression. And I know that depression pumps out the chemicals to make everything worse. I just worn out.....

I don't know how to do this alone anymore..... Thanks so much for being there!!!!!!

 
Old 02-04-2008, 01:27 PM   #6
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Podiecat-I know what you mean about being tired of seeking out answers when it seems all the attempts fail. That hopes were raised, and then dashed. At times like this I just try to re-group. What works for me to "re-group" may be different than what you need. I am in no way a traditional /establishment religious person. But, there is some wisdom in the Serenity Prayer-I don't really know the exact prayer and I don't repeat it but I try to draw on the wisdom that is there-
that we seek to develop the wisdom to know what we can change and what we cannot change and that --
we work on what we can change
and learn to accept what we cannot change
I think I have the gist of it- at least that is what works for me. I would say that this is now my spiritual project and I expect it is a lifelong endeavor. I am trying to achieve some balance with this- the efforts required to do what I can , and developing some internal calm/ wisdom / strength that will be there regardless of what happens with the project to figure out what is going on with my body and how to best take care of it.

 
Old 02-04-2008, 04:28 PM   #7
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Thank you. I never grew up with religion, yet most of the years before menopause hit I definitely felt a spirituality which was very wise and grounded. For some reason, it all disappeared with my first night drench. I was an artist - my life and art were fed by the dreams. I have not slept through one night or been aware of any dream at all since that first night drench. I am a shell - and then I found out that my bones were affected too.

I have had cortisol and DHEA tests which showed that I'm very low in cortisol morning and night. I tested low for DHEA also. My naturopath put me on supplemental DHEA but I got very agitated and hot flashes started up again - so I stopped. I have reacted to most things that should have helped me. The only time that I have been like my old self was the few weeks after my thyroid dose was lowered just .25mg. My body/mind eventually slipped back and that's why I'm so surprised that my last thyroid levels were normal.

So - I do know what you are saying. Days like yesterday I was able to stay above the quicksand - today I just had to give in and go to bed - the worst thing possible for my bones. Even therapy has not helped and that is why I think it is my endocrine system, neurotransmitters, etc.

All of you wonderful, wise women are such a gift!!! I now know why this luddite learned how to use a computer!!!!!

LOVE...

 
Old 02-04-2008, 06:50 PM   #8
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Podiecat,

Your latest posts show how strong you are. Even after tough days, you are exploring different diets & ways to overcome. I can relate to your words & I am a newbie with all this stuff. It seems like a tidal wave of emotions floods my body & mind at times. You are not alone & I do believe there is more we can do for positive gain. (Hopefully soon we will know what that might be.)

 
Old 02-04-2008, 07:07 PM   #9
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Thanks, Sierrawalker, as I have been admiring you. I used to be a speedskater, self-employed landscape/gardener,woodturner, long distance hiker/climber/backpacker - extremely fit, strong and in touch with the natural world. As I have read your posts, it has reminded me of then. I'm in Vermont - but I sure do wish you and others on this list were closer so we could hike, laugh and forget our bones!

I have posted on the Vermont Craigslist several times to try to find a walking/hiking buddy and also start a small group for women with osteoporosis who are trying to go the more natural group. Not one person has responded!!!

How would you like to move into a 200+ year old farmhouse in rural Vt and we can build our bones together....... plenty of room for you and yours.

It's so strange around here - either straight conventional medicine or only completely natural - no middle ground!

 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:16 PM   #10
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Hi Podiecat! First of all, thank-you for that quote about the WHO. I read the same thing, and it was great to see it in print again. I've been on (and still am on) the natural progesterone/testosterone for about 2-3 years. Unfortunately, my lumbar BMD keeps plummeting. I also tried HgH (growth hormone) injections for almost a year. The clinic which prescribed them said they had great success with increasing BMD. Guess what? Mine dropped 6% while I was on it. There were a couple of male posters here a few months ago that had good success with HgH though. I should warn you: it's very expensive and not usually covered by any health plan. I was paying close to $650. a month, and that didn't include the annual "fees" to be a client of the prescribing doctors.
Changing the subject a bit: if you'd like some nice hiking companions, have you tried the Green Mountain Club? We were fortunate enough to have lived in your beautiful state for almost 3 years, returning to Canada last year. GMC is VT-based and has chapters thru'out the state. I envy you; I'd give anything to move back there....my favourite place in the whole wide world.

 
Old 02-05-2008, 06:05 AM   #11
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Hi Starfish,

I would be afraid to try the growth hormone anyway. And if I can't find a doctor who can work with me on the more straight-forward issues, I would not jump into the progesterone/testosterone shots. Thanks for your reply, though. A few months ago, I thought for sure that low testosterone may be the culprit for me because I had every single symptom of low testosterone. I had the levels checked and was told they were okay.

Yes, Vermont is a special place - if you are in a decent frame of mind. You can have the most awful disease or be in an awful place, and if you are feeling positive - it can be okay. At this point, I don't think I could handle the Green Mountain Club hikes. I will check into it though.... Thanks

 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:20 PM   #12
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sierrawalker HB User
Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Podiecat,

You are too kind with your invite, wish we could meet. I'm not familiar with VT but must be great for outdoor activities. And a 200+ home, how nice.

You are welcome here also, Lake Tahoe & the Sierras are wonderful. I'm in Reno which is close but has much less snow. After living in Truckee 25 years, made the move to Reno. We've had a real winter with lots of very cold, snowy nights. Today is sunny, what a treat. I am going walking by the river later. (Get some needed Vit. D, smiles) It amazes me how much my thinking has changed in 2 weeks of learning my dexa results.

Sounds like we have alot in common besides the osteo. A speedskater, wow, that must have built up your muscles & bones. I wonder if what we did in the past protects our bones more than the dexa scores might show? If I might ask...What's the Wards Triangle? You've been dealing with this for 2 years with supplements? I don't know what the EZORB is either. I'm so new to this. Have you been going the natural way for the 2 years? What do you think is the best calcium supplement? Still so many questions.

I was so scared with scores that I agreed to Forteo without research. My mom uses it also. Yesterday I found a group in Oakland, FORE, from the posts here that will soon start a chapter in Reno. I hope to help them get it started & will attend a lecture by Donna Covey later this month. Let me know any questions you might have for her.

Better get going now, take care, laura

 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:25 PM   #13
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Re: Using compounded progesterone for building bone

Podiecat,

Middlebury looks much like a larger Truckee with river, railroad.... Looks like a great place! Gotta run, right, in my dreams.....smiles.

 
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