It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Pain Management Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-29-2006, 08:22 PM   #1
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 70
IngyW68 HB User
Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

Hi there,

Wondering what other people thought of this story???? I am outraged, personally. First off, how could they convict the guy with his Dr. from NJ giving two separate statements where the first one he admits to writing prescriptions without dates and that he verified all the prescriptions from the pharmacy in FL. I can't believe they would give someone 25 years for that, even if the guy was guilty which I don't believe he is because 25 pills in one day, although i only take 6-8 of percocets but take other medicine as well, like the Pain Dr. expert they interviewed is not a huge amount. He even quoted that he has two "grandmas" that take so much morphine that it would kill someone else who wasn't used to that and needed it for pain...

We can't get sex offenders or dead beat dad's in jail for any lenth in time and they put this poor guy away for that long based on NO witnesses for him selling anything, empty bottles of pills in his house,,,etc. The DEA guy admitted that they had NO proof of anything only pharmacy video tape of the guy limping in to get his prescriptions filled with two leg braces on....

Again, I can't believe that now he pleaded innocent since he was so desparately in pain and wouldn't be able to get any medicine if he pleaded guilty and took a lesser sentance with no jail time but he would also be admitting something he did not do. (his quotes) and now in jail they give him a morphine pump which gives doses A LOT higher than what he was thrown in jail for using in the first place!!!!

For those of you who weren't able to see the story I'm sure it's written on the CBS website for 60 minutes for tonight....It seems like it keeps getting harder and harder for us out there who have so much pain and to find caring, HONEST, Dr.'s who want to treat us.

Anyway, thought I would start a thread on your thoughts...please be nice to me and others if we disagree about something and I promise not to take it personally as this is just a discussion on this tv segment and it's ok to agree to disagree I'm just curious what others think about the guys situation as well as the segment itself which I wish would have ended with giving more information on how people can prevent these things from happening to them, keep great records from all your prescriptions from the doctor and then copies from the pharmacy to go with that. Pain journals including meds..or other ideas to take care of ourselves since I would bet most Dr.s woudl flip their story to save their own tail if this came up and we would be left high and dry....

Hugs and Blessings,

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 01-30-2006, 03:32 AM   #2
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 216
catnap HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

Hey Ingy:

I had every intention of watching that and missed it. Well I did read about the situation and agree with you this is another case of injustice. They let the real criminals go and jail the innocent that shoudln't have even been arrested in the first place.

They gave this guy a choice to a plea of guilty which would have kept him out of jail but no one would have scripted him the meds he needed so he had to go to jail to get the meds and now have him at a large dose than before the conviction. Outrageous.

I just wish that someday we could have a serious examination of the government's role in preventing the treatment of chronic pain without having the focus be on someone who has broken the law or abused his meds.

The expert doctor they interviewed tried, and he mentioned patients who take large doses of pain meds, but I'd like to see a report on how hard it is for patients to find a doctor to prescribe pain medications and from doctors about how difficult it is to prescribe pain medications with the DEA looking over everyone's shoulders.

When I read this story that is when I start searching and found the sample letter on a link in this forum. PLEASE everybody send that letter to your congressman. We could make a difference! It would only take a couple of minutes of your time to do this. They even give a link to find out the name and address of your congressman.

I read an article by the Mayo Clinic on doctors fearing prosecution and the growing number of arrests of pmp's is exacting high costs for patients, physicians and medical insurers. Some doctors order costly but unnecessary diagnostic tests so they can show the DEA a reason for prescribing strong pain meds. Many docs are simply unwilling to presecribe narcots, no matter how much a patient suffers. Ignorance, as well as a fear of the DEA, plays a role.

This was exactly what I was thinking about my new doc wanting me to go in for more testing. He would be ordering a $2,000 (or more) mri to be paid by Medicare just so he would have something to show the DEA to justify my pain. This would be just duplicating information already in my file, which is totally unnecessary and expensive.

Carol

Last edited by catnap; 01-30-2006 at 06:59 AM.

 
Old 01-30-2006, 07:27 AM   #3
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,133
feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

i was really sympathetic to this guy til they mentioned that he was actually creating his own Rxs.they left out alot of important ino as to what else this guy may have or had not actually tried to treat his pain.like had he actually tried other options besides the narcotics?the thing is,the type of pain he was describing sounded very similar to mine,and in that case,almost any narcotic really does nothing to actually treat the pain,do you know what I mean?i really was also never actually sure just what the real point of the story was either??did you get it at all?the thing is,if this guy was relying totally upon the use of narcotics to try and treat his pain,I DO strongly suspect that he may have succumbed to addiction along the way,really.Honestly,it does not take much to actually cross that line.I have been there.The fact that he is actually getting what he mentioned as good relief from the morphine pump now that he has no other options really makes me wonder if he ever really even tried any other possible modalities to try and treat this pain he had.There were just sooo many really unexplained factors in this mans story that you really don't know for sure just what the real story was,ya know?More info would really have been way helpful.i really just didn't get the actual point they were trying to get across from airing this,did you?just my opinion of it.Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 01-30-2006, 09:24 AM   #4
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 70
IngyW68 HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

Hi there,

Thanks for both your comments.. Again I enjoy discussing things and don't mind differering opinions as long as we can all stay nice to one another

Catnap, I totally agree that there are thousands upon thousands of those of us who are UNDER TREATED for our pain and agree that sending letters to our congressman, shouting from the Capitol steps, doing whatever we can to be heard and try to change the laws for this..

I did mention in one of my posts that there is a link to a website with all the States rules on the treatment of pain and I am actually filing a formal complaint to the Virginia Medical Board about my last Pain Mgmt. dr. and my surgeon who were negligent in many ways and have written proof of this as well as direct Code violations from the Board website on things that they did not do according to their duties as Dr.s. The whole hippocratic oath of DO NO HARM seems to fall more and more by the wayside...

Feelbad, I agree totally that the message of the piece was not very clear to those watching and it left you with a feeling of uneasiness about the situation. I do remember that the DEA guy they interviewed said he had NOT ONE piece of actual evidence to PROVE that this guy was doing anything wrong even though the jury didn't see it that way and thought that he was guilty also for not taking a plea bargain....

Again, I am only going on the show and that his Dr. from NJ first agreed in writing that he wrote prescriptions without dates and also verified each one but then changed his mind (to me this was lying to cover himself for writing the presc. without dates since that would make him guilty). Also, there were empty bottles in the house and didn't have any proof he was writing or copying the prescriptions and taking 25 pills a day is not that much since there are many people who do this and it still doesn't touch their pain. However, I don't know whether he actually did anything wrong or not but truly believe that he was in great pain and people can do stupid things at times and that will be left to God to determine that but as far as a court of law to convict someone for this amount of time for the actual amount of ONE BOTTLE of pills for 25 years is the most outrageous thing I have heard and again, child molestors, murderers, etc. aren't even put away that long in many cases so I don't feel the punishment fit the crime nor did they do a good job of talking about all of us who suffer because of Dr.s that are too scared and protecting themselves to provide adequate pain relief.

I do agree that they didn't discuss the other modalities of pain relief that he tried and that people who have known addictive behaviors from their past like excessive eating, drinking, smoking, etc. are more susceptable to addicting pain meds... it still doesn't mean they should suffer or can never use narcotics it is just mandatory they discuss this with their Dr. for appropriate care.

*****The statistics are less than 5% of all pain patients are actual addicted to these medications...

Keep in mind that many Dr.s, patients, family and friends are not aware of all the right terms like below:


Addiction—Addiction is a primary, chronic, neurobiologic disease, with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. It is characterized by behaviors that include the following: impaired control over drug use, craving, compulsive use, and continued use despite harm. Physical dependence and tolerance are normal physiological consequences of extended opioid therapy for pain and are not the same as addiction.

Chronic Pain—Chronic pain is a state in which pain persists beyond the usual course of an acute disease or healing of an injury, or that may or may not be associated with an acute or chronic pathologic process that causes continuous or intermittent pain over months or years.


Physical Dependence—Physical dependence is a state of adaptation that is manifested by drug class-specific signs and symptoms that can be produced by abrupt cessation, rapid dose reduction, decreasing blood level of the drug, and/or administration of an antagonist. Physical dependence, by itself, does not equate with addiction.

Pseudoaddiction—The iatrogenic syndrome resulting from the misinterpretation of relief seeking behaviors as though they are drug-seeking behaviors that are commonly seen with addiction. The relief seeking behaviors resolve upon institution of effective analgesic therapy.

Substance Abuse—Substance abuse is the use of any substance(s) for non-therapeutic purposes or use of medication for purposes other than those for which it is prescribed.

Tolerance—Tolerance is a physiologic state resulting from regular use of a drug in which an increased dosage is needed to produce a specific effect, or a reduced effect is observed with a constant dose over time. Tolerance may or may not be evident during opioid treatment and does not equate with addiction

Again, thanks for the discussion and thoughts and I hope more people read the terms above and write them down or do a search on the web for your own State's medical board rules and print them out.

I now take to EVERY Dr. appt. the board rules, the National Pain Policy information, all my notes copied from all my previous Dr.s to show how long I've been in pain, what level it's been, where the pain is located, etc. A log printed out from Sam's Pharmacy of all my prescriptions with amounts, dates filled, days they are supposed to last to show that I am taking them correctly... All this is so important to have on hand in case of ANY questions they have for me and to also let them know that I am serious about making sure my quality of life is acceptable and that I am treated with respect, compassion, dignity, and all forms of pain relief that we can try to find the right combo and this is everyone's right to have. WE pay their salary as well as that of the insurance companies and should keep that in mind when we are in their office....

Ok, I feel like Norma Rae standing up and yelling, "We ain't gonna take it anymore!"

Thanks for reading....

Hugs and blessing,
Ingy

 
Old 01-30-2006, 10:26 AM   #5
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,358
RetiredDirector HB UserRetiredDirector HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

For those of you (like me) who missed the show last night on 60 Minutes, I just finished watching the segment on CBS.Com. I guess I'm just dumbfounded over this and find it almost hard to watch. I also find myself wondering if they can do this to this poor guy, what will (or could) they do to me? I take 180 mg of Methadone a day for my Chronic Pain a day and I think he is in much worse pain than I am. I guess if I have to sum up the story I just watched I would simply say Incredible!

If you want to watch it, just log on to 60 minutes and you can see the entire segment from last night. Thanks for drawing it to our attention Ingy.
__________________
Director

 
Old 01-30-2006, 03:59 PM   #6
Senior Member
(female)
 
dango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 133
dango HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catnap

when I read this story that is when I start searching and found the sample letter on a link in this forum. PLEASE everybody send that letter to your congressman. We could make a difference! It would only take a couple of minutes of your time to do this. They even give a link to find out the name and address of your congressman.
Where is the link?

 
Old 01-31-2006, 07:02 AM   #7
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,133
feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

You know,they DID say that they found alot of evidence that this guy WAS indeed forging and creating his own rxs,so that in itself was kind of a biggie there in itself.what I am wondering though is despite the fact that this Rxing doc took back eberything he stated at the onset about all the rxes he admitted to Rxing,werent there actually any medical records availiable to proove or disproove this??This doc should really really be held accountable for many many reasons.I do feel for this guy really,but when you are obviously not getting adequate pain relief and espescially by using types of meds that are,number one,way too inadequate for his type of pain,and number two,narcotics really are not the best way to treat what appears to be central pain syndrome that he actually has.I have this in my l arm and narcotics really do nothing for this particualr pain at all,but do work on the other areas of my pain.wouldn't you be trying some other type of a long acting narcotic at this point and when he was sitting there in the process of actually trying to forge an RX,wouldn't you ask yourself 'what in the hell am I doing?"Tho the actual numbers for chronic pain patients actually becomming addicted is rather low,it dioes not mean that it does not actually happen from time to time,espescially when you have been taking the two most widely abused pain meds out there,you know?i am a recovering pain med addict so maybe I am seeing this from a very different angle,but the big thing here is that this man DID have some choices along the way.when you look at what we have all been thru here just to try and find that magic combo of meds and or modalities to just give us some small quality of life,I cannot believe that this man,at some point in time while having to go thru what he was dealing with just to obtain those two particular meds,if he was truely trying to find actual PAIN CONTROL,and not just those two meds,that he would not have actually tried being placed on something that would have worked far better for his type of pain than what he was actually taking.or at least maybe tried other modalities or even the MS pump that he is living with now and seems to have his pain under control just fine.I am sure if his pain was not being properly controlled while he was in prison,t6here would have been some mention of this from him at some point during this interview.

honestly,I really DO feel for this man,i do,but there were unfortunetly just sooo many really imprtant factors left out of this whole thing that really makes it impossible to actually know just who really was at fault here you know?

i do realize as i have done this two,that everything that detective mentioned about what was found,like the big batch of bottles(geez,who doesn't have that?)and a few other things would all be considered normal in our world,it just really made a little red flag go up when he mentioned the forged Rxs,thats all.Even if you had depleted your med supply before your next fill or while you were going thru just living in agony while trying to actually find a doc to really treat your pain,would you ever,could you ever,possibly forge a docs Rx to obtain more pills?even i,way back when in the 80s when i was in active addiction,would never have done that,i just could not.could you?this is why i do feel that this was an addiction issue not so much a man who was just needing good pain control.even when this man mentioned his visits to other docs about continuing to have the same amount of meds Rxed as he was getting from the other doc,and he was told that he was basically screwed.he didn't mention anything about if he actually said well okay since this is not going to actually be happening,what else can I do,what other options do i have?you know what I mean?

it just appeared to me thruout the story that this man wanted his two favorite meds and nothing else.like i said before,with the type of pain he described,I honestly seriously doubt that the two meds he had been taking would realistically have actually helped his pain.but what they would have offered him is a good way to keep his depression at bay and also give him that high,that in some cases,will even displace your actual need for pain control in some individual cases.unfortunetly,addiction does happen to some very nice people.Addictive thinking is honestly really very different than a normal persons thinking once that addiction kicks in,the way you thought about things before,your morals and the things you would do to actually obtain your meds just all get thrown out the window,really.this is the sick mind of an addict.i just wish this story had told ALL the facts.I really would have like to know just what the true point of the story was.,and am glad that he finally is getting some control over his pain.I DO NOT however feel that he should have been given an astounding 25 years in prison for this at all.this should have been and could have been dealt with in a much much better way for this man.That really IS the saddest part of this whole thing,really.he obviously was suffering in many mnay ways,not just from his actual pain.

sorry if i ruffled any feathers here,really,this just is how that story actually came across to me.It would really be nice if they could somehow actually show ALL of the facts in this case and also show the parts of the actual interview that got left on the cutting room floor.this could have been a very very educational peice of work for many many reasons but unfortunetly,they just hit the highlights and none of it was really actually clear.i wish they had offered this guy the option of treatment instead of jut thorwing his butt in jail.and this is all the WAR ON DRUGS?? he probably got a much higher sentence than some major drug dealer only so they could make an example out of him.how very very sad.Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 01-31-2006, 10:07 AM   #8
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 70
IngyW68 HB User
Re: Who watched 60 min. on Prisoners of Pain? Thoughts?

Thanks for your thoughts, Marcia and you certainly didn't ruffle any of my feathers and hopefully no one elses....I really do enjoy good, kind, discussions on subjects and find it easy to "agree to disagree" if that is the case on some things and really did want to find out others true opinions and views on watching that show. So, please don't feel bad for stating how you feel about it and your honest statements on your previous history and that makes it a view on the story that I wouldn't have...

Again I totally agree that the WHOLE story wasn't told and I am not positive one way or another about the things the DEA found and there are many inconsitincies about the NJ Dr. who wrote the scripts, etc. To convict the guy at the end of all this for having ONE bottle of actual meds which I think they said is the minimum they needed for FL law.. for that many years is where I am completely dumfounded....

And like you said,,,,if they think he has an addiction problem that led him to doing all this... then WHY oh WHY would they not offer him a treatment program ALONG with medicine to help his pain??? It did seem to leave a lot of us going...what???

Thanks again for your honest thoughts about the subject and I hope everyone else reading and responding knows that we are all caring, supportive people who can still love one another and disagree, challenge, question, somebody's statements without it being a personal attack on them and we can stick to the actual subject at hand and that's all this is about...

I enjoy good conversations and it would be a very boring world if we all felt the same, thought the same and agreed all the time

Hugs and blessings,
Ingy

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Watched my Dad die 10 months ago today pain24-7 Grief & Loss 2 08-13-2009 09:15 AM
I just watched helplessly my son's departure nonu Death & Dying 76 07-08-2006 10:41 PM
Obsessed with being watched! Nancy Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) 3 06-20-2004 07:40 PM
We're prisoners of our taste buds! surrealmeal Weight Loss 3 06-07-2004 03:06 PM
Paranoid thoughts about being watched emmabee Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) 4 05-23-2004 06:57 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added








TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



tortoisegirl (159), gmak (156), Shoreline (149), BB07 (91), backhurtz (84), katlin09 (69), Ilovemycutedog (53), galalena (50), jonnstar (35), Isotope (34)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1180), MSJayhawk (1007), Apollo123 (906), Titchou (851), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (759), ladybud (755), midwest1 (669), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:46 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.com™
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.com™ All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!