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Old 05-13-2006, 07:33 AM   #1
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conversion[shore\anyone\please

Hi group! I take kolonopin 1 mg for anxiety and for back spasms3x a dayfor the last 7 months.Before that,i was on 5 mg. of diazapam 3x a day.I want to go back to the diazapam,but what would be the conversion? I asked my pharmacist,and he said 5 mg of diazapam but 4x a day.I have a great relationship with my doc. and if i suggested the switch,she pretty much would agree.[i think] But what do you think the conversion would be? Thanks

 
Old 05-13-2006, 11:24 AM   #2
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Re: conversion[shore\anyone\please

Hey MH, I was pretty sure that .5 of Klonopin was equal to 5mgs of valium but wanted to be sure and I was able to varrify this. The thing to remeber is that Valium has a much longer half life, up to twice as long as Klonopin so like with any med, starting on the low side is safer and less likely to leave you over medicated and forgetful. It's realy a fairly simple conversion.
Klonopin .5= 5mg of Valium

Diazepam 5mg
Chlordiazepoxide tabs 15mg
Clonazepam 0.5mg
Lorazepam 1mg
Nitrazepam 5mg
Oxazepam 15mg
Temazepam 10mg
Loprazolam 1mg
Lormetazepam 0.5mg - 1.0mg
Zopiclone/Zimovane 3.75mg
Zolpidem/Stilnoct 10mg
Zaleplon/Sonata No information

There is no reaon to have to take Valium more than 3 times a day so doubling the bed time dose may be the best way to get all the effects from Valium your looking for, "sleep, spasm and anxiety.You may loose some of the effect Klonopin has on RLS if that has been a problem but will certainly gain better spasm control.

Unfortunately I have found tolerance to Valium and the effect on spasm can grow rapidly, where tolerance to Klonopin used for anxiety and RLS doesn't develop as rapidly. Klonopin isn't the most efective muscle relaxer as it doesn't actually effect smooth muscle. You can treat spasm with drugs that effect the brain, drugs that effect the muscles or drugs that effect both. Valium effects both where klonopin effects specifc brain function. Even at equal doses the different benzos have some very different characteristics.

The sedative effect of Klonopin is what has an effect on spasms. Even though klonopin is used for RLS, it doesn't work the same way a muscle relaxer works. That's why the don't try flexerill or any of the more common muscle relaxers to treat RLS. If spasm alone was the only symptom, I doubt Klonopin would be a med most docs would consider. However reduction of anxiety and klonopins sedative effects can certainly improve the effectiveness of muscle relaxers and pain meds.
Good luck, Dave

 
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Old 05-13-2006, 07:52 PM   #3
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Re: conversion[shore\anyone\please

I was always under the impression that Klonopin coverted like this.

.5mg of Xanax=5mg of Valium
.5mg of Xanax=.25mg of Klonopin (klonopin is twice as strong).
.5mg of Klonopin=10mg of Valium.


Yeah, that's right.

1mg of Klonopin would = the 20mg of Valium (4X5mg or 2X10mg).

Edit to add: I've also read that 2mg of Klonopin=25mg of Valium. I think the pharmacist understated the value. So basically you multiply Klonopin's dose X 12.5 to get Valium's equivalent. So 3mgX12.5=37.5mg of Valium (40mg basically).

Last edited by bulletinboard25; 05-13-2006 at 08:04 PM. Reason: add

 
Old 05-13-2006, 09:09 PM   #4
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Re: conversion[shore\anyone\please

Hey BB, I saw some variations in the conversions I looked at, I think the important thing is she not get sick or have any ill effects. At that mimial level of Klonopin she in th right ballpark, 15-20 mgs of valium should replace the "Benzo" quality, whether you get the exact same effect I'm sure is very individual.

When you hurt so bad you can't catch your breath, Benzos comes in handy in just about any form. It's strange, but I had profound depressive type feeling from valium and no problem at all with other benzo's. I was also having terrible spasm which could cause those feelings. Hands down valium is a better muscle relaxer, where a shorter acting benzo like Temazapam is better for sleep.

Unfortunately most docs consider it sloppy to prescribe multiple benzos even when it makes rational sense in many cases. It's OK with many ther classes of drugs like BP meds, AntiB's AntiD's but the stigma atached is strong like with opiates. My mom was a nurse and in the early 60's they kept a bottle of Valium right next to the aspirin and coffee in the nurses lounge. How things change.
LOL
Take care, Dave

Last edited by Shoreline; 05-13-2006 at 09:12 PM.

 
Old 05-13-2006, 10:40 PM   #5
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Re: conversion[shore\anyone\please

Thanks for the replies! But dave,who are you talking about when you say "I think the important thing is she not get sick or have any ill effects. At that mimial level of Klonopin she in th right ballpark". I haven't been around much,but how ya been dave?

 
Old 05-13-2006, 11:21 PM   #6
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Re: conversion[shore\anyone\please

Dave

I saw different variations in the charts, too. I've read several; all 3 of them had different ranges.

I think I've read that Klonopin can be worse for depression, too, in that it's known to decrease the release of serotonin.

Xanax has been really good for me... It takes the edge off, and definitely allows me to do some of the things that I normally wouldn't.

That's interesting that you said Valium was right next to their aspirin, . Shows ya how times have changed! Now a lot of doctors hesitate to prescribe it. My Dr. is hesitant to go above a 1.5mg dose of Xanax when in studies it was shown to be most effective at doses of 5.6mg per day and has a maximum approved daily amount of 10mg. I've heard from a lot of people that a lot of Drs shy away from Valium more than they shy away from opiates.

Take care both of you.

 
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