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Old 07-05-2006, 02:39 PM   #1
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questions about meds and PM DR.

I went to see my PM Dr. today and there was a woman in the office drinking a tall glass of water, she said she was trying to fill her bladder so she could tinkle, so they could do a urine test. When I was leaving I saw her outside very very upset. She was discharged from the practice because the pain med wasnt in her system. She told me and a few others outside she took them all early and thats why. She said she takes 650ml of meth every day. Is this possible? I take 15 ml a day. Wouldnt that kill someone? Does the Dr have an obligation to her and her withdrawal? She walked and talked fine so I didnt see any outside reason why she would be on so much.Thing is the Dr was giving her that much to take a day. Is that seem to much? Also when I was in the waiting room, it seemed that all the women were very rough looking and sounding and over weight and just didnt look good. I felt like I was in a room with a bunch of drug abusers. But this Dr seems so nice and reputable(spelling?) The longer I am on the pain meds the weirder I feel. I have hardly any pain anymore, but I feel guilty for some reason, like I am destroying my body, and I feel hazy alot and forgetful, is this normal?

 
Old 07-05-2006, 04:01 PM   #2
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

Wow! That's quite a story!! I've never heard of anyone being on that much methadone, but I can't say that it isn't possible. Someone else with more experience taking methadone would probably know the answer. I am on methadone but I'm tapering down from a high dose of 180 mg per day. As far as the atmosphere at the clinic that you go to; all kinds of people suffer from chronic pain - the tough looking motorcycle mama's, the little old ladies, teens, grandfathers, executives....you get my point. It could be that this particular practice has a reputation for dealing with chronic pain patients who have a history of drug abuse. Hard to say for sure. It's too bad that the atmosphere is making you feel bad about your own treatment. Maybe you need to find another clinic or just try and realize that everyone is suffering, just like you are. As far as the doc having some responsibility toward the patient that was terminated for not having any meds in her urine....well, if the clinic had her sign a contract stating she would take her meds as directed and would submit to urine tests to verify that the drugs were in her system to assure they weren't being diverted and she comes up clean...I guess she has to go. And the doc really has no obligation to send her on her way with a 2 week supply of anything to help her ease off the drug. Taking her meds early was her choice and now she has to live with the consequences. From hearing about other clinics, it sounds pretty normal to me. KathyMac

 
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:07 PM   #3
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

thanks kathy, did you ever feel hazy and or confused from the med's? I didnt feel this way at first but I do notice I am feeling a little weird and hazzy, not as alert as I used to be. Also how do people with pain handle the fact that not only the pain is better from the med's but the meds actualy make you a little high? Sometimes I get sick to my stomache but then other times I will feel a little stoned and relaxed which of course makes me feel good, so it makes me feel guilty even though I need them and have several painful medical conditions. I am new to this and so scared from what all I read on here about addiction that I get paranoid. I even cut my pills in half and wont even take the full pill. Plus I heard meth messes your teeth up??? Liver problems? I feel like if I take them for a long period of time I will end up looking like one of those rough women I saw today, like maybe they will age you??? I am a vain person to be honest. Does taking long term pain meds age you??The whole process is scary. I was happy in the begining, but I am starting to realize just how serious taking pain meds are. Hope this makes sense and I dont sound to much like a baby, and appreciate any advice

 
Old 07-05-2006, 07:19 PM   #4
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

I thought from what I see on here, that I was on a low dose 15mg meth a day and oxycodone 15 mg a day. I told my Dr that I do get sick to my stomache and that it does make me hazzy, like a stoned feeling. He said nothing. I mean do you high dose people feel no high from the med's.? I know you feel pain relief but is there a high feeling as well or is that just in the begining? My Dr also said today I could have what ever strength I wanted and what ever med's I wanted, and it did make me feel a little uncomfortable. He seems so nice and genuine and he is very careful with screening people. Odviously, because he discharged someone today. I guess what I am asking is, after long term use do people not get the hazzy feeling anymore? I feel scatter brained like for example I watched a TV show and the next day could barely remember it. I wasnt like this in the begining. Its a creepy feeling. I hope it goes away. I feel so much better but I dont think I can live with the side effects, maybe the situation today with the Dr and the other people realy made me weird out. I also pray to God the nausea goes away. I took my pill last night and 30 min later I threw up. This morning I took it and had to bring a tupperware with me to the Dr's cause I was so sick.I take it with food as well but still feel so queesy. Is this normal and will it go away? I am on the med's 6 weeks now

 
Old 07-06-2006, 06:31 AM   #5
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

i am kind of wondering just how the doc got this womans UA results so quickly,most have to send them out to a specific type of lab for the actual tests to be done.Do they do this right there on site or something/even if they did,wow they sure did it pretty quickly.i am in no way doubting what you are saying,its just i have never heard of a pain clinic getting the results that quickly.maybe the results from a previous one did this to her?

I am not familiar with meth,but i can tell you milimoki that alot of the initial side effects that come alog when you start just about any med,will "usually" dissipate over a bit of time.just try and hang in there. by the way, conductor(as usual) is right on the money with his descriptions of addiction vs dependency.addiction is more of a behavioral type of thing and a specific mindset.I am sure things will get better for you just given some time.if by chance they don't just sit down with your PM and discuss other possible options.good luck with this,Marcia
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Old 07-06-2006, 09:33 AM   #6
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

Hi again Milimoki - Both John and Marcia have given you very good advice! I, like Marcia, am also wondering about how quickly this woman's test results were obtained at the clinic. I tend to think that Marcia's guess is correct: she must have been hearing the result of a previous test. I do have a concern about being on your meds for 6 weeks and still feeling like you can't keep them down. You said that sometimes you feel "guilty" and so you cut your pill in half. When you do this, does half the amount keep you pain free? Perhaps you need to talk to your doc about lowering your dose of methadone. 15 mg. a day is a very low dose, but maybe your pain requires less than that. Your doctor sounds very nice.....almost too nice in some ways. If he honestly said to you: "Just tell me what medicine you want, what dose you want and I'll give it to you.", then I'd have to wonder about his prescribing practices. Hopefully he didn't say it quite that way

I take 120mg of methadone a day and I don't feel any "high". But I've been on this drug for about a year now and I'm titrating down from 180mg. per day. As far as methadone affecting your teeth and other organs, I can only tell you a little bit about it. I'll probably get this wrong but I'll try. Methadone can cause a dry mouth in many people. Because you lack the natural saliva that coats and protects the teeth, they are more exposed to bacteria and sugars. When your mouth is dry you tend to drink more soda and other drinks with sugar in them that can further contribute to the decay of your teeth. I'm sure someone else will come along and correct my answer!!! As far as methadone and other organ damage, I don't know of any studies that show that the liver/kidneys etc. are damaged from the drug. Most organ damage, especially liver and kidney, is due to the tylenol that is used in combination with narcotics in drugs like Percocet and Vicodyn. You should check with your PM doc if you have specific questions about organ damage.

I sure hope you will give the methadone a little more time to see if the side effects go away. Personally it has been the best pain reliever that I've ever taken. Stick around this board and keep posting. Perhaps you'll feel better about taking your meds if you continue to share your feelings and read what others have to say. All the best - KathyMac

 
Old 07-06-2006, 10:41 AM   #7
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

As far as the urine tests go, he did a urine test on me the very first visit, and came in 5 min later and said all clean on my test and that he tested for 15 different things. I was clean on all 15. He then said at any time he could urine test me to make sure his med's were in my body. The girl yesterday said she went in and had a tinkle and hardly anything came out. They came in and told her that there was a problem and the med was not there in the urine, so they said well you barely gave us any urine so go drink some water and do another one and they will retest it. When I came out I guess is when she was so upset and said it came back negative again. And that she was out of the practice.I felt realy bad for her but she should have been more careful, I can imagaine people in pain can also get mentaly addicted to it as well, with no fault of their own. I have always been one who has never blammed addicts or alcoholics, I realy believe people cant help it by 99%. To be honest I stayed up til 6 am reading this site, I have read plenty before, but I realy realy read alot last night lol. I feel better today mentaly. I am just going to take it day by day. I also talked to the nurse today and she said the Dr said I cant keep skipping the meds. I cant take them one day then not the next, because this will cause stomache trouble and for me not to get used to them. So I will take them exactly as told. I realy cant believe all the people on these boards and how nice everyone is, I hate sounding sappy ...I have no idea how some of you people live with your illness and that much pain. Yes methadone does seem to be a good drug and it seems to last way longer than the others. I just hope the hazzy sicky feeling goes away. I dont feel it in the morning usualy, mostly at night. Thanks so so much guys for the info, I am so grateful. To celebrate feeling better today , I am going to leave now and take my husbands credit card and go wild. Wont that make him happy? I think so Take care and talk to you soon

 
Old 07-06-2006, 02:27 PM   #8
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

hi all,
i just wanted to add my 2 cents. I know some of us could use more meds because of the pain not going away.But bottom line i never take more than i am sopost to,because i know that i have to have my meds 4 times a day so i will pay now or later,and i don't want to run out early .And most importantly i would never chance losing my meds .And i am sure that girl knew that. I do feel somewhat sorry for her,but what was she thinking !!!!!! have a great day!!! kelsey

 
Old 07-06-2006, 03:02 PM   #9
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

I get a UA done once a month at the doctors office and I watch them test it right there.They can tell if you have methadone metabilytes in your urine also opiaates in general will show,so will benzo's,cocaine,barbs and thc.If they want to find out exactly what opiates or benzo's are in the urine then it has to be sent to a lab to be gas tested.Methadone will not cause organ damage and is one of the safest drugs when used properly.....Dave

 
Old 07-06-2006, 08:35 PM   #10
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

Can I ask you a question conducter? When you first started taking your med's did you get the hazzy high feeling? I would think everyone who starts them even in extreme pain feels it. If so, did you like the feeling? Just like someone would enjoy having a few drinks with friends? The reason I said I felt guilty and am very careful is because even though i have several painful conditions, at the same time, every now and then, I have felt better when I take the meds pain wise and the other way. It concerns me very very much that I may be an addict? Do people with real pain who need med's who benifits from the meds and at the same time feel more relaxed when they take them, does that make them an addict? Its confusing to me, and thats why I have felt icky latley. I am a very high strung active person and I go go go all the time and like things perfect. When I am in pain, I have zero life. When I have medicine I am any where from 50 -80 % better and feel more calm and I can function. I have less depression as well. So does this mean I am benifiting from the med's or does this mean I could possibly be an addict in both ways? I am sure my body will have dependance as time goes on like we all do, but what happens when my mind is used to being more calm and relaxed for so long??? I plan on having a hysterectomy in 2 mon to take care of 50 % of my problems , WHICH in turn will let me not have to take as much med's. As far as my main condition, there is nothing I can do for that except to take med's. I have chronic kidney stones and pass grain every day.It is very painful, and I cant take it or live with the pain on a constant basis without med's. I would rather die. I realy hope these questions make sense, I am trying to explain it as best as possible, its just the whole addiction thing is concerning to me and confusing. Maybe I am addicted both ways? What should I do if I sound like I am ? I cant not have the meds. Would like to add, I would never take more of my med's to get high btw. I take less than I am supposed to. But I do like the calm they make me feel. Maybe I get so worked up and have so much anxiety from the pain, that when I feel the calm, its the right thing to enjoy the calm. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night like BAM, eyes wide open, heart racing, scared to death, thinking what will today bring, will I have a bad stone, will I bleed alot and have terrible cramps, will I be able to get out of bed. Anxiety is almost as awful as pain sometimes, and to have both just sucks. I worry less when I know I have a pill that will make discomfort go away and my anxiety too. Of course some of my stones I have, no medicine can touch the pain, and all I can do is get in a ball and suffer. I realy hope this makes sense and thanks so very much for the info, I must sound so newbie'ish, I also dont want to sound like a baby, I know there are people on here that just have horrific pain and are way worse than me and handle pain better than me. I try not to feel to sorry for myself for to long. Thanks again and any more info I would be so thankful for, sorry so long a post, I tend to ramble, and I am a terrible typist. Conductor your in Florida as I am. What city do you see your PM Dr in???

 
Old 07-06-2006, 08:51 PM   #11
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

Hey there-
I don't know what conductor will say, but I say that you should not feel guilty about enjoying the calm you feel when you take the medications that you obviously need. I mean, you aren't taking them just because you want to feel calm. From what you've said, you have true and serious pain issues, therefore, you are taking the medications to ease that pain. If you weren't in true chronic pain and were lying about it just to get the medications and get that calm feeling, then the story would be different.

Part of your calm feeling could also be that you are truly more relaxed because your pain levels are being managed. I'm not a doctor, but to me it makes sense.

Yes, your body will become dependant on the medications because that happens when you have to take them on a daily, long term basis, but that is not addiction. I agree with the earlier posters about addiction versus dependancy. They are two totally different things.

It sounds like you are very responsible and consciencious about taking your medications the proper way and not abusing them, so please do not feel guilty that you are actually getting some relief and are able to enjoy a fuller life.

I hope I'm not butting in, but I felt guilty when I went to see my pm doctor for the first time until I realized that for the first time in over 2 years, I might actually be able to enjoy doing more things because my pain levels won't be so much of an issue.

Take Care-
Lezlee

 
Old 07-07-2006, 07:41 AM   #12
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

mili,I can give you the best possible advice here about the possibility of becomming addicted?never ever go over your limit of meds for ther day.ever,for any reason.if your pain is over the top one day,tough it out,or use other means to try and bring it down to a more tolerable level.also have other things in place just for that reason.when my pain gets bad and my meds don't work,I have my TENS unit availiable which I will usually try before going to my BT meds as I only have two oxy IRs availiable per day.

like was mentioned before,addiction is more about behaviors and mindset than anything else.i know exactly what you are trying to say here mili,really.it really can be rather confusing,espescially when you are not used to being on certain types of meds and feeling that relief from some very intense pain really can cause its own type of a "high' all in itself.

but the key here is to never take more than Rxed.if your pain starts to get out of control,speak with your doc before ever doing anything at all regarding taking that little extra pill.always remember,it will catch up with you at the end of the month and you wont have it when you really need it.

if at anytime,you feel the need/urge to use more than you are Rxed,really ask yourself "why'.is you pain really THAT much worse or are you taking it because you just want to "feel better" in your mind.If you should ever ever get into that feel better mindset,get thee to your doc,its time for a reality check and an evaluation.

I went thru hell and back with this type of addiction many many years ago and had maintained total sobriety for well over a decade.and was scared to death to have to go back onto any sort of narcotic,but after I suffered this pretty severe spinal cord injury and developed come really excruciating pain syndromes and also suffer from other medical problems that all have their own types of rather hellish pain,i really didn't have a choice in the matter,so,with the backing of my primary doc,who is fully aware of my history and he had helped me get thru all that so he knows where I am at.and the pain clinic i go to is also very well aware of this too,we were able to work this all out and rather thankfully,I have been able to find good pain relif for at least some of my pain and with extra safeguards in place,I am able to stay totally and completely compliant.it has been over two and a half years now and i am still doing okay with the meds and really have not actually had that urge to go over my Rxed amount.i think it is mostly out of the fear of not having it when I really need it as my pain is so ungodly that I honestly would not even be able to physically even begin to actually get out of my bed without the use of my narcotic and of course my other meds.it just scares the living hell outta me.

You DO have a responsibilty to yourself and your Rxing doc to use the meds only as Rxed,as long as you do that you should really be okay.honestly,don't feel guilty bcause of feeling relief.only you actually would know for sure just what it is you are really feeling.it is always a possibility that some people can and will become addicted to the narcotics they take,but with chronic pain patients,that number is only very small,around 3%.Just take time once in a while to really gage the way you are using your meds.if you really DO need them by all means,continue to actually use them the way they were actually Rxed by your doc without feeling the least bit guilty.BUT,if there is ever a time when you want to take an extra med and your pain is not the real reason,well,then you do need to sit down with your doc and discuss the situation and come up with plan B.

I am sure you will be fine.just knowing what to watch for really does help.I hope this eased your mind some anyways.good luck mili,Marcia
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:33 AM   #13
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

In regards to the testing, many doctors can do UA's in their office. The individual in question came up negative, that can only mean one or two things. Either her test was innaccurate or she was not taking her medications. Taking them earlier has no bearing on the results because Methadone builds up in your system and will stay in your system for several days, if not longer, especially at the level she was supposibly prescribed.
If it were just the 15mg like you take then maybe.. but no way at 650, I don't buy it.

one can't always judge how someone feels physically by the way they walk and talk or even look. Most individuals look at me and would never in a million years believe I have the conditions I do nor the pain I am in if they do not see me after I've walked for a short bit or if I had just taken my medications.

In regards to the side effects. When I was on Methadone I had similiar side effects. It made me feel rather hazy and confused, by the end of week 2 I was a zombie and would just sit and stare out the window or at the tv. My dose was higher than yours but it produced the same results. The sensation never went away, in fact it got worse and I was taken off the medication. It is possible you react to the medication in the same mannor that I did.

Everyone reacts differently to medications. What makes most people sleepy keeps me wide awake and vice versa so one can not always base what their side effects, if any, will be by the experiences of others or even what's written on the RX labels themselves. Our bodies and chemistry are all different and we can really process things differently.

The side effect is supposed to go away, for me it never did. Hopefully yours will but if it doesn't you might want to talk to the doctor about it if it becomes bothersome. I found that MS Contin didn't give me the type of side effects that the methadone did so it was a better alternative for me as whole.

I agree 100% with Conductor on addiction vs dependance. It's sad that so many individuals, including medical professionals, can not grasp this concept. They don't think this way in terms of anti-depressants which have the same chance of dependance as narcotics (and other medications as well!) and you will never hear a doctor say "you are addicted to an anti-depressant". It's the whole stigma thing attached to pain medication that I think folks just can't get past the thought that there IS a difference.

Good luck !
Barb

 
Old 07-07-2006, 12:12 PM   #14
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

Speaking of anti-depresants, I was on them once, they helped , but made me have zero emotion, so after a few months taking them,(it was zoloft) I decided not to take it anymore, two days later I went withdraw's. I couldnt believe zoloft could make your body dependant on it. I had to get off it slowly. Anyway thanks so much guy's for the info and taking the time to write all this out for me. I am so thankful. Maybe one day I will be a senior vet and can get some exp and give advice on here. This site is so great. Anyway thanks again, I have felt much better in the last 3 days. I have sleeping problems now but who cares, I feel much better now talk to yall soon

 
Old 07-10-2006, 08:36 PM   #15
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Re: questions about meds and PM DR.

Thanks so much for the response Conductor/Jon (and others) I am feeling better and better each day. Lots of my side effects are going away too. I am actualy going on vacation to the beach tomorrow for a week. I cant wait, its been so long since I felt well and good enough to go on a trip. Will see yall when I get back, take care and be well. Talk to yall next week.

 
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