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Old 12-13-2007, 05:35 PM   #1
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The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

I know that in medicine there is a term called "the standard of care", which is supposed to mean something that connects with the "Patients bill of Rights", like for instance a violation of that standard of care would be to suddenly terminate a chronic pain patient's pain medicine, which for many would jeopardize the health of the patient, and for some actually put them in severe danger of having a cardiac or stroke event. But it is ambiguous, this standard of care concept, and when I read posts that describe an initial meeting with a new PM doctor as "awful", with the person then stating that they need desperately to find another pain doc immediately, it makes me angry. Angry that doctors have such power, that what should be a meeting where key words like 'care' and 'interest in patient's welfare', ends up producing fear and anxiety. As if we didn't have enough on our plates.
I think that since pain and depression are the two most common causes for lost time at work, and that quite often, actually in very high percentages, both pain and depression go hand in hand, there should be alot more emphasis on pain management in medical schools; there should be much less fear that writing schedule II prescriptions might somehow get a doctor in trouble, and a more forward thinking state and federal policy that as boomers age there is going to be a huge uptick in the need for pain management doctors. Finally, to end my rant, there should be more, much more, public dissemination of information regarding the difference between addiction and the normal biological process of dependence. I had to deal with the last item in my own family, when I found out that two relatives thought that I had a prescription drug addiction instead of a painful neuromuscular disease that required treatment. I had to educate them as to what an addict would look like after ten years, as compared to how they know me to be. But it was painful to know that this horrible disease had been totally invalidated and all the focus was on the treatment. I suspect that that kind of misinformation is common, and many people in families have to deal with a false stigma attached to the treatment of a disease, just because the disease is invisible, as most diseases happen to be. WELL NOW, I do feel better Had a very bad week and needed a forum to vent. Thank you all for just being here, especially ***** and the tireless moderators who do such a great job...Paulo

 
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:35 PM   #2
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

All I can say is WELL SAID!

 
Old 12-13-2007, 06:53 PM   #3
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Thumbs up Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

I'll AMEN that, Step!! You hit it right on the head, Paulo. It is a crying shame that we have to beg for relief and go through a few ignorant (in the misinformed sense) docs before we can get relief. The one I saw yesterday was arrogant and just plain mean. He wouldn't even look me in the eye while railroading me for a good 45 minutes. He did, however, hand me tissues twice, lol. I asked, at one point, if he thought I was an addict, and he said, "No. I think you are dependent." I thought, well, duh...anyone who takes narcotics daily for an extended period of time will become physically dependent.

I think the thing that bothers me most is that he did not even look at the pile of records I had. He saw pelvic pain and decided that's not a real thing, I guess. It frustrates me so bad. After it was over, I told him that I appreciated his candor, and I shook his hand and left. One thing he said that just rings in my ears, though, is that if I were 70, he'd treat me differently...with strong meds. I don't get it at all...same pain level, different ages...same ailments. Go figure.

So, Paulo, thanks. Thanks for putting my thoughts down on paper. Thanks for understanding. And thanks to everyone for the support. You guys are wonderful, and I know you all will be blessed beyond measure.

 
Old 12-13-2007, 07:46 PM   #4
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Talking Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

I definitely agree with all of the things you said especially that more people and especially doctors should be educated on the difference between addiction and dependence. And they should also be educated on how to treat someone who is recoving addict and has legitimate pain issues. I know from first hand experience how difficult it has been to get the help that I need and deserve. There are doctors out there who are very knowledgeable, understanding, compassionate, and willing to trust someone. However, those doctors seem to be very hard to find for alot of people. I am grateful for the relief that I do have and all of the caring and understanding people here on this board. I have been through a lot recently and it definitely helps to go someplace where people have an understanding and empathize with what you are going through.

Brian

 
Old 12-15-2007, 07:11 PM   #5
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

[removed] I have seen so many women treated as just crazy, men just drug addicts - judgements passed on people for their appearance - seeing people treated so differently because of social economic grouping that it still amazes me - I do not want to make anyone angry but I just cannot stand these kind of judgements - It is too bad that there is no way to make those treating us experience pain; much like police having to experience being tazed - I know this is a little
"out there" but I have seen judements being made before the caretaker even sees the patient - there are all kinds of sponsors of awareness groups but I have never seen any type sponsorship for educating the public about chronic pain - could we ever change the stereotyping with something like this -
no one needs advocacy more than us
Aver

Last edited by HBMod07; 12-16-2007 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Please bring your attention to the Posting Rules

 
Old 12-15-2007, 09:16 PM   #6
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

Averoo, I agree, there is a great deal of stereotyping in health professions that should involve looking past the exterior and dealing with the interior, be it medical or psychological. I spent most of my working life in mental health, as a social worker then after I went back to grad school as a psychotherapist, and biases and prejudices based on appearance, socio economic status, hair style, you name it are ubiquitous; which is why when we find a good doctor or therapist it's like a pot of gold neath a rainbow, as we desperately try to manage illness and pain. But why is it that they are so special? When people spend 8 to 10 years in higher education to engage in the healing/helping profession there is an unwritten and underlying philosophy that since they are commiting their lives towards the relief of suffering and the welfare of their fellow man there should be a higher level of personal growth and evolution in empathy and compassion; so why all the excitement when we find someone who is meeting our expectations of merely being a good doctor. They ALL should be compassionate and caring doctors, and that's what pisses me off, the scarcity of good ones in a field where they all should be good. I know, that is both naive and idealistic; but when you are in pain, dependent on meds you have taken for years, the last thing you want to encounter is an uncaring or judgemental doctor looking to see what kind of person he thinks you are based on the 10 minutes they spend with you. The whole field has been ruined by managed care...Paulo

 
Old 12-17-2007, 08:39 AM   #7
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

I can sooo relate and understand all you've wrote here and TOTALLY agree!

 
Old 12-18-2007, 02:52 AM   #8
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

I just wanted to say that I am currently in school to be an R.N and I hope to work with CP patients (my doctor has already told me I had a job waiting at his office when I graduate -sweet huh?) I hope I can help, if even just a little, to be an advocate and stand up for people suffering from chronic pain. I am very blessed with my doctor, he is a great guy and I think of him as a friend, but I have heard the terrible stories about the way some of you have been treated by people in the medical profession. They should be ashamed of themselves. If a doctor or nurse is judgemental and makes assumptions, the quality if care they can provide is exceptionally diminished.One of the good traits of my doc is if one of his patients abuses their meds he won't just drop them but instead offers help in dealing with addiction. Doctors definitely need to be more educated about chronic pain. Being in constant pain is awful enough without being treated like a criminal.

 
Old 12-18-2007, 07:38 AM   #9
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

I agree with all of you but what can we do? I feel I'm at my doctors mercy. If he's having a bad day and makes some stupid comment about my pain what am I supposed to do ? Right now my biggest complaint is how these people with the script pad don't know all the side effects that go along with these meds. Again I don't know the answer.
Fred

 
Old 12-18-2007, 08:17 AM   #10
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

Amen to that!
Aver, I did not catch all that you had said do to the editing, but I will take a stab in the dark that is was in regards to women being not taken seriously about pain issues, which is becoming well known. I know when my problem started I was had so many diagnoses of course many times ending up with being told depresssion or anxiety & so on....Which after while ended up with both due to the doctors not taking me seriously. God forbid my pain was real! Well over 2 years later I am in CP & have nearly lost the use of my arm. Of course at this point the doctors I am currently seeing know there is definanly a problem, all this time wasted I can't get back, all the money & putting my family through h***, not to mention the pain. Let me tell you I do alot of praying to let go of that anger. I will never let that happen to me again, I knew something was very wrong & just gave in to these doctors. How sad the number of people who are misjudged & the suffering that happens because of it. I know now to speak up of course in a very professional adult fashion. Sammy

Last edited by sammyo1; 12-18-2007 at 08:20 AM.

 
Old 12-18-2007, 03:49 PM   #11
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

AMEN AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!
I totally agree with everyone and sammy i am also going through the same thing as you(i think i have read talk on other boards but could be wrong .bad memery and sp)anyways,i too have lost use of my right hand and finger and without a slpint i couldn't do anything,like type.i am now loosing some function in my other hand. i went to the dr a couple of years ago had mri done went to ns i had c spine spinal stenosis any many hern and bulging disk alot of pain and it made my hands and arms num and tingle and i had state ins ,so they told me i did not need surgry sent me to pm and i didn't think that i got told that because of my ins. til later when other drs said that might have been why. i didn't get a second oppion. i thought that dr would do the right thing. now i am sooooooooo angry.
I also want to add that i am also angry at pharms too. They too try too cause fear and anxiety.I have been going to my pharm for a couple of years and about 1 year ago they changed there policy on refills, you can only get them filled 1 day before ,i have never had a problem with them inless they have to call in my meds. so i always take my meds in to all drs(now anyways) when i need refills.
i have never had a problem with refills and pharm at the pm because i always have a written refill so they don't have to call. But in the pass, i have had a problem with getting reg meds like detrel la from family dr(urine med) about 8 months ago i call in it and i called back 2 days later and it never got filled. so i finally called my dr cause i was out of the meds and they just called it in.So, on my last pm appt which was tuesday i took my xanax bottle which i needed refills on and show her and even asked her when i left did you remember my xanaxs refill,she said yes. (cause they don't hand them straight to you the take you up front to the deck and give them the chart to make copys) She was running behind and i went back to her office and she said to just call them in. so i thought here we go. So i call wensday to the pharm and talk to the guy i usually talk to if i have anything to ask. I told him what she said and ask could he call them in cause they were due on that sunday and ask him to call me and let me know that it was done because i told him the problems i have had in the past he said,he would try to get around to it. so thurday night at 9.35 i left a message but it cut me off so i called back and finsh the message that stated that i had already called and ask for them to call in for a refill (they where closed so they wouldn't get this till friday) for sunday,and that they close early on friday so if it hasn't already been taken care of would you guys do so,and call me ,so friday at 1100 am they didn't call me so i called them and the pharmist that aswered said that it never got sent out so he said he would sent it out now.then 2 minute later the first pharmist (that told me that he would try to get around to it)called yelling at me ,saying you have called 4 times about this med ,i told you i would take care of it ,i said well the other pharmist said you didn't, he said that it is put up he can't see it from his screen,it has been oked and you can call it in on sunday. so ,i told him i was sorry. I didn't explain about the message getting cut off he didn't want to hear it anyways . i never got yelled at for calling more times for my reg. meds so why did he do that? I don't know why i said i was sorry i guess because i was scared he would call my pm dr. Then i tought ,why am i sorry for what i didn't do anything wrong. why am i beening made to feel like i did,the dr ok the meds why is he putting them up where others can't find them esp, when he doesn't work on sunday.I have never tried to get my meds early and if i wanted them filled 2-3 days early i would just go to a different pharm that would let me.So i am so mad at the power these people have over my life because i couldn't live without my meds,i always worry about everything and i never do anything wrong.But this did cause fear. anyways thanks for letting me vent so for sp and grammer did the best i could .thanks guys kelsey

 
Old 12-18-2007, 05:14 PM   #12
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

You are right Kelsey, there is no reason why a pharmacist should ever yell at any customer, and you would be within your rights to call the manager of the store/pharmacy and complain about the rudeness. So what you had to call several times, you are the patient, and medication anxiety is common and they should be trained well enough to know that. I don't know what it is with some doctors. Some are fantastic caring people, but some have let their ego get inflated like a huge balloon. I went to a general practitioner when I first moved to where I live now, to interview him to see if it might work out, him being my primary care doc. I take in a stack of medical reports, MRI's, neurological reports, orthopedic reports etc., which he kind of thumbed through as if glancing through a fashion magazine, just glancing, not reading. Then he asks me if I am working and I say no I am receiving social security disability; but I have hopes for the future, and he says to me "you look ok to me, what's wrong with you?". I think it was a combination of the incredulous tone in his voice combined with a look of confusion on his face that got to me, but I asked him what he thought a 6 inch stack of reports might mean, and since when are most diseases visible to the naked eye? I said, you can't see the wires in my heart or my prosthetic knees can you, or my peripheral nervous system or my spine can you? By then we both knew that this was going to be the first and last office visit; but for him disabled must have meant being in a wheelchair, having cerebral palsy or Parkinsons, where there are outward signs of disease. But most diseases, especially pain, are not visible. I probably over reacted, but I thought when I told him I was on social security disability that he would instantly know that there were significant problems, as that is about the most impossible system to get approved for. I could go on and on, like why do I have to wait an hour or more before going to the first waiting room? What happened to keeping to a schedule, is my time so much less important than their time? But everyone except the rich and famous experience the same thing. But someone else pointed out, "what can we do" we are really at their mercy, despite having a Patient's Bill of Rights. Advocacy groups - we need lots more of them....Paulo

 
Old 12-19-2007, 01:42 AM   #13
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Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelsey1 View Post
AMEN AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!
I totally agree with everyone and sammy i am also going through the same thing as you(i think i have read talk on other boards but could be wrong .bad memery and sp)anyways,i too have lost use of my right hand and finger and without a slpint i couldn't do anything,like type.i am now loosing some function in my other hand. i went to the dr a couple of years ago had mri done went to ns i had c spine spinal stenosis any many hern and bulging disk alot of pain and it made my hands and arms num and tingle and i had state ins ,so they told me i did not need surgry sent me to pm and i didn't think that i got told that because of my ins. til later when other drs said that might have been why. i didn't get a second oppion. i thought that dr would do the right thing. now i am sooooooooo angry.
I also want to add that i am also angry at pharms too. They too try too cause fear and anxiety.I have been going to my pharm for a couple of years and about 1 year ago they changed there policy on refills, you can only get them filled 1 day before ,i have never had a problem with them inless they have to call in my meds. so i always take my meds in to all drs(now anyways) when i need refills.
i have never had a problem with refills and pharm at the pm because i always have a written refill so they don't have to call. But in the pass, i have had a problem with getting reg meds like detrel la from family dr(urine med) about 8 months ago i call in it and i called back 2 days later and it never got filled. so i finally called my dr cause i was out of the meds and they just called it in.So, on my last pm appt which was tuesday i took my xanax bottle which i needed refills on and show her and even asked her when i left did you remember my xanaxs refill,she said yes. (cause they don't hand them straight to you the take you up front to the deck and give them the chart to make copys) She was running behind and i went back to her office and she said to just call them in. so i thought here we go. So i call wensday to the pharm and talk to the guy i usually talk to if i have anything to ask. I told him what she said and ask could he call them in cause they were due on that sunday and ask him to call me and let me know that it was done because i told him the problems i have had in the past he said,he would try to get around to it. so thurday night at 9.35 i left a message but it cut me off so i called back and finsh the message that stated that i had already called and ask for them to call in for a refill (they where closed so they wouldn't get this till friday) for sunday,and that they close early on friday so if it hasn't already been taken care of would you guys do so,and call me ,so friday at 1100 am they didn't call me so i called them and the pharmist that aswered said that it never got sent out so he said he would sent it out now.then 2 minute later the first pharmist (that told me that he would try to get around to it)called yelling at me ,saying you have called 4 times about this med ,i told you i would take care of it ,i said well the other pharmist said you didn't, he said that it is put up he can't see it from his screen,it has been oked and you can call it in on sunday. so ,i told him i was sorry. I didn't explain about the message getting cut off he didn't want to hear it anyways . i never got yelled at for calling more times for my reg. meds so why did he do that? I don't know why i said i was sorry i guess because i was scared he would call my pm dr. Then i tought ,why am i sorry for what i didn't do anything wrong. why am i beening made to feel like i did,the dr ok the meds why is he putting them up where others can't find them esp, when he doesn't work on sunday.I have never tried to get my meds early and if i wanted them filled 2-3 days early i would just go to a different pharm that would let me.So i am so mad at the power these people have over my life because i couldn't live without my meds,i always worry about everything and i never do anything wrong.But this did cause fear. anyways thanks for letting me vent so for sp and grammer did the best i could .thanks guys kelsey
That is outragous! I would have totally lost my cool and screamed right back. No one has the right to treat you that way, especially some random pharmacist on a power trip. I have no patience for rudeness. Doctor's,nurses,pharmacists -bullying patients! It's disgusting!

 
Old 12-19-2007, 03:15 AM   #14
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Smile Re: The Power of Pain Doctors and the fear and anxiety of patients.

i am glad you guys agree, and a far as me calling in i would be fearful to do so,i know its crazy but that is what they do to me. i forgot to also mention the next day i had to pick up other med my sleeping med from pm dr .it was a refill ,on my old bottle i had 5 refills left and when i got my new bottle the refill it also had 5 refills,i called and told the same phamist he said ,what, hold on,then a couple of minunte later he got back on the phone and said he didn't know what had happen,i said so it is a mistake of course so i have 4 refills. he said its says here you have 5, and told me that i shouldn't worry about it. and i an thining i should worry about this(contol substance)he could look at the screen and know it was a mistake just like i did .why would he tell me not to worry about it and that i still have 5 on his screen?because i am worried about it .i don't legally have 5 refills i have 4 ,now mind you i always get refills,but in my worried mind i thought is he telling me this cause he called my dr and i am getting cut or let go,now these fears also make no sense since my dr would take away refills (i know someone that went to that dr and that is what happen)and anyways I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG. i HATE to worry over everything,it is crazy...what do you guys think about the extra refill thanks kelsey

 
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