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Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

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Old 04-13-2008, 06:28 AM   #1
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Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

As I said please don't take offense gentlemen, in fact feel free to of course chime in.
This has really been bothering me & I thought I would get some opinions.
After thinking back because of having to once again answer a hundred questions for PT, I have been reminded of how women can be kind of blown off or judged quickly by doctors.
When my problems started they were very complex & I understand that, but I always felt that my complaints were never taken seriously. For example although I complained of pain in certain area's never received a really detailed exam of that area. For example even though I had pain in the ribs & breast area they never fully examined the area. Always a guessing game, for that matter after several visits no x-rays were even done, & at that time I was going in once a week & could not even touch the area. In the beginning it was painful to breathe there for my breathing was bothered.

Time after time anxiety or depression was brought up. I can't even tell you how many visits I made in back then, & was seen by two different doctors.
What makes me think this besides talking to other women & seeing this very subject appear on the news in the past, is my husband had the same doctor at the time & I just know if he went in complaining of the same symptoms he would have received a much more detailed exam. In fact if he goes in & says his foot is bothering him, he walks out with a script for an x-ray.

I have to stop myself from thinking about it to much, because I get furious.
I honestly feel I am in CP because this was never taken seriously to begin with. More then one doctor involved here.
The worst part is if a new doctor asks for all my records to be transferred, it makes me look like I was doctor shopping, even though only once did I come out & ask for something stronger for the pain, & that was after months & months of suffering. Geeze, even when the proof was right in front of their eyes, the gagging, wanting to vomit while in the office & vitals going bonkers I still had a hard time getting doctors to treat the pain, this was the third doctor.
I can only imagine what is in some of their notes.
As I said it makes me see red. Even now I am pounding away alittle harder on the keyboard (ha).
I know others go through this, infact my sister in law went through a period where she kept going in, had pain, did not feel well & so forth, & yes depression was brought up & they prescribed her something for it. Well shortly after relocating to another state & going through having to still get someone to take her serious she was diagnosed with cancer, by then well, alittle to late, she passed away just recently. I know, & yes I know she had it all along. Makes me want to scream at these doctors, & tell them look what can happen. Ok I am in tears now.
So ladies give me some opinions & gentlemen to of course, & tell me how would you deal with something like this? Sammy

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Old 04-13-2008, 06:38 AM   #2
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

I have been blessed and have not really experienced this but I wanted to respond and tell you my heart goes out to you for your loss and having to cope with being judged unfairly. I can't imagine how irritating that must be. Take care my friend.

Old 04-13-2008, 06:52 AM   #3
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

I know that you wanted ladies to respond, but I can relate to not being heard at the doctors. I am a 37 year old man, who has chronic knee pain that has put me out of work and sent my mood on a roller coaster ride. I am currently going to see my "SEVENTH" doctor!! I have been to my family doc, a 3 rhuematologists, and an orthopedic. Both of them did not even take the time to listen or care. My x-rays and mri's are normal and once the doctors see that the just say go to physical therapy and it will take care of itself. Well they are wrong! So I gather up my records and pictures and move on to another doctor. The last one I saw was wonderfull. Sat down and listened, took notes looked "outside the box" and tried to find a cause, not the solution. He was a pain management specialist, and recommended another doctor I should go see. He even called the doctor while I was in the office and made the appointment. My point in all this rambling is do not stop looking. Turn over every stone, knock on every door. Make the doctor sit down and listen, go into that office with conviction, and don't let them go with out an answer or another place to turn if they don't know how to help. When it comes to your health, do not play the nice card, until you are satisfied that they have done everything they could. I hope this helps, take care.

Old 04-13-2008, 07:15 AM   #4
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen


I am with sctttrk, turn over every single stone!!! "BE your own advocate" until someone listens.

When I was on workers compensation for my arm injuries I had a similar experience. I was complaining of severe elbow pain after the first and second arm/wrist surgeries. The doctor was not listening. I would cry form the pain. Then when the second surgery ended up failing, the elbow pain was pushed to the back burner once again. In all the elbow was not even addressed until 2 1/2 years into the whole ordeal, and then it was a long process to get to the actual treatment/surgery part. In fact after the 3rd wrist surgery it got to be so bad I was beside myself. When I finally complained to the upper extremity specialist he said to me that he was not allowed to really comment on it because he did not have autorization to access it. I was flabberghasted!!! I had to go through a huge fight with workers compensation to fianlly have them approve having the elbow looked at. In the end the care for the elbow was delayed to the point that I have permanent never damage.

I understand that workers comp junk and why my doc at the time could not comment, but in your case the insurance is going to pay and there is not so much "red tape". I think that sometimes doctors do not look at the entire picture. Sometimes seemingly unrelated symptoms can actually be related. It takes a very compassionate and up-beat doc to see outside the small box and want to investigate.

It is amazing how much this actually happens. I am so sorry that this has continued so long for you.

I still agree with scttrk, please do not give up. Maybe you want to find a woman doc to see if you have a different experience. Although like I said the doc has to be one that is willing to try and fit the pieces of the puzzle together.

There is still the chance that the ribs could be directly related to the shoulder pain. It is weird how one thing can affect another area of your body. It still may be that when that shoulder gets feeling better and stronger that the ribs will start to feel better to. It is somewhat of a catch-22 because your working to make that shoulder stronger and the other pains are interfereing with the progress of the shoulder recovery. I really understand that because it was not untill my elbow was treated that I could actually fully recover from all the extensive surgeries on the wrist. Once that was helped I could really focus on the PT and strengthening of the wrist.

Hang in there Sammy. I am here to support you in any way I can.


Last edited by skych; 04-13-2008 at 07:21 AM.

Old 04-13-2008, 11:18 AM   #5
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

Hey Sammy: Amen, Amen, Amen! I have been through more than my fair share of dismissive docs, PA's etc. When I first started trying to find out what was wrong with me, I was 38 years old and I went through everyone, from my primary, neuro, neurosurgeon, ortho, and a PM guy here in my city.

I was looked at and treated as if I were just some hysterical female or a bored housewife. I was even told by the PM I first saw..."You are almost 40 you know". I looked right at him and said, "yes, I know. But I also know that the average 40 year old does not feel like I do, when I literally crawl out of bed in the morning!" I could have slapped him!

I've been told that I was depressed, getting older, had to just "slow down" and not try to be a "super mom". I even had an EMG scheduled with the first PM I saw, and when he walked into the exam room, he said, "Oh, lucky you! I've just come from the dentist and I'm in the mood to inflict pain". (This was the needle kind of EMG and I swear at one point, he litterally jabbed one of them in the bottom of my foot. I darn near jumped off the table! He actually laughed!

As you can see, my friend, you are not imagining this. At least not in my opinion. I just kept searching for someone to truly help me and insisted that my primary refer me as needed. I know I have been spoiled by my current PM. He always treats me with dignity and rspect. He always listens to what I feel I need. But, with my recent dealings with my primary's office during this whole blood pressure thing, I am slowly getting the old pain in the butt me back. (as I've stated in my last thread).

God Bless Sammy and be strong. Be your own best advocate and don't take no for an answer. Many hugs, cmpgirl ((((Sammy))))

Old 04-13-2008, 03:07 PM   #6
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

With regard to doctors, AND PHYSIOS I think they just switch off....... somedays its like no not another one here moaning.................... and I have had many examples of that. I went about several moles that I wanted to get removed due to my mothers history of skin cancer, went to my normal GP and needed a referral letter, so my GP didnt even look at them...... told me to ring myself to set up an appointment with one and she would do letter. I did. Got the letter opened it and on it was a note re: moles to be looked at, and then a stickey note on it saying "Sorry Brian, Dont Know A Thing About This..... !!!!!!!!!!" If she had opened the file she would have seen these little circle measurements that she took ages ago and they had gotten much bigger. The specialist was ever so nice and with given history he told me he wanted them removed and watch for more carefully. What annoyed me was I was going there, and it was something different it wasnt my back so it was like what is she finding wrong with herself today. I find doctors just switch off its here she is again, pain today somewhere else. Also you get labelled rather quickley....... NOT HER AGAIN. I have often overheard them saying about other people wonder what it will be today !!!!!
My sister is in the medical area and she said yes it is ture,,,,,,, she is not a doctor but she had alot of dealings with them and she said the attitude just stinks......... I fear for when we are older what respect will be shown then, now we are able to speak up for ourselves and not treat them like gods, but in later years what hope is there for us. With regard to men going to doctors, I just find they have to be dragged there in the first place and dont question much............ and then of course if they have to go back a second time it must really really be bad "as men dont complain " so of course they are taken seriously !!!!!
Round 1

Old 04-13-2008, 04:08 PM   #7
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

I had back surgery to have my lower three discs replaced with cages. Needed to have rods, pins, srews, and any ectomies that were possible according to my hubby. My 3-5 hour surgery turned into 8.5. It was a hard one. I had the front and back incision.

So, the next afternoon comes and the wonderful staff comes to get me up and out of bed. Yup,sure. As they sit me up, and tell me to push up I feel a tremendous burst inside. (good thing that I still have the epidural).Stop something just broke. Oh no dear, everybody feels like that. NOthing is wrong. PK, what do I know I am only the patient. Something is not right. So I am forced to get up twice a day to walk with the walker. On a scale of 1-10 what is your pain. 14, thank you very much. Why can't you control the pain? What else can you give me? Can't you cut off my leg? My surgeon is at a conference and no one is listening to me. By now I am starting to drag my left leg as I walk with it. I can't stand up straight and I'm beginning to sound like the mad woman who cries for drugs. And I look like one. No one wants to come in to wash me up in the am or anything. Jeesh.

So my doctor comes back on Tuesday afternoon. I should have been discharged and home already but they can't get the pain under control or me to walk unaided. I lay with a kitchen timer so I can press the button every 6 minutes to get my miniscule dose of whatever it was they had in the pump at that time. He comes in and listens to my tale of woe. I can't get out of bed to go to the bathroom because i can't walk..the nurses chide me for that...I feel like I am losing my mind because of the pain, I can't walk...Stay in bed-we'll take an x-ray in the morning.

10:30 am we're down in xray. A very kind technician helps me with the dance. I can't stand by myself so he holds me up so they can get the pic. The pain is excuciating. The pic is clean so I can lay down, and they wheel me back up to my room. 11:27 the surgeon is in my room. I have good news and bad news. The good news is that you area not losing your mind. You are justified all the pain you are having. The bad news is that your back is broken and we need to do more surgery. Oh joy. So, to make a looonnnggg
story short another 6.5 hours later, 2 15" titanium rods and 20 screws later I am now fused from T9 to my sacrum.

And it's amazing how the attitude of the nursing staff changed when they found out that I had broken back. Oh my, she ISN'T a hypochondriac. OH DEAR. we had better be nice to her. OH, Mrs. R. are you feeling OK? do you need anything? What a bunch of bull. It's funny how I couldn't be taken at my word. But when I had a little black film, then I became a valid complaint.

Don't get me started........

Old 04-13-2008, 05:00 PM   #8
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

Sammy, great thread! Doctors are like any other group. some are jerks and some arent. The medical community has a long history of sexist behaviors that have caused great harm to women.

There was a woman scientist who went into heart research in the 1970's. at the time there were very few women leading research groups, as the grants were applied for and granted by a good old boys network and there was a very real ceiling to how far women could go in the field.
When this woman started in the lab, she was appalled to find out there were no female test animals at all, only males. She then headed up some very facinating research that proved that women did indeed suffer from heart disease, and that some things that had no effect on males would work for us and visa versa.

When MS first started to appear, it was labled 'hysterical female paralysis' for a few years (to this day many more women then men have it).

I can only imagine how the women begging for treatment for things like labia pain that is now recognized as a disease were treated for the first 10 or 20 years they complained about it.

I have always said that if men had periods, Midol would contain morphine, lol.

But I do not want it to seem like I think all men are bad or unconcerned about female interests, many male doctors as well as female have helped to drag medical thinking out of the dark ages.

In the early 1900's, a lot of doctors still thought it was sacreligious to offer pain medicine to a woman in labor, because the pain of childbirth was a curse of Eve, and it was our moral duty to endure it.

I agree that there are many many doctors who do not take female complaints of pain as seriously as they do males, and sadly, some of these doctors are women themselves and should know better. It is up to us not to tolerate it, the same way we would not tolerate racism or bigotry, and seek help elsewhere if we feel our concerns arent being adressed.

The men in pain groups can help us as well, when their wives, moms, sisters, daughters, or mothers are in pain, make sure you ask the doctors what is being done about it, and that they need to address pain as one of the vital signs, not as an afterthought.

Thanks again for the great thread!
Hugs, Fabby

Old 04-13-2008, 11:13 PM   #9
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

Hi, For the most part I am lucky. My primary Dr. listens. She will call me sometimes after a visit to see how I feel. She will tell me she will find me a specialist and she will call me herself with the info. She will tell me to call her and let her know how I make out with a new Dr. etc. She sends me for the tests I need. I just went through a two month episode of pain under my ribs on the left side and severe nausea. I was in the ER. That Dr. did a cat scan which was negative. So she dismissed me and said it was all a reaction to the antibiotics I was taking for a bladder infections. No way was it that. My mother said i was white as a ghost. The pain was horrible. Water even caused nausea. I called my Primary Dr. the next day. She called me back and said she was sorry the way the hospital treated me and she got me squeezed in to see a Gastro specialist in her office. He took a history. Then he asked me what I thought should be the next step. I said an Endoscopy and he agreed. I'm post gastric bypass so it made sense. That showed minor things. Then he ordered two ultrasounds and an Upper Gi. All showed minor things but nothing to explain the pain and nausea. But he listened. The ER Dr. was horrible. You think she would have listened. But, she was probably just interested in clearing the board. She was nice and everything but took the easy way out when she saw I was taking the antibiotics.

Another problem that really concerns me where none of the doctors seem to take serious is my pelvic ultrasounds. In 1990 when I was 25 I had a 10cm Ovarian Cyst removed with the Fallopian tube. Then in 1995 I had another smaller Cyst and massive adhesions with the Ovary removed. Both were major surgery with the bikini cut. Over the years I've had pelvic ultrasounds because I always have pelvic pain. Usually they don't find anything because the adhesions don't show up. They always put in the report that "no left ovary visualized" which is consistant with what I had told them. In 2006 I had another Ultrasound at the hospital for more pelvic pain. Not through the ER. Just easier to have done there. So in 2006 the tech says to me "are you sure you had your ovary taken out". I told her yes the surgeon told me that 11 years earlier. He said it was wrapped in rubber bands of adhesions so he took it all out. So the report says both ovaries look fine and measure the same size. I mention to my primary Dr. and she calls the hospital and has the head of Radiology look at the tape. He agrees it is the ovary. So when I went to the GYN she said maybe I was mistaken back in 1995. Although my husband and mother remember the Dr. saying he took it out. Then I get another ultrasound in Feb. 2008. The tech asks me if she minds if she gets another tech to look at something. I say okay. So they are trying to figure out what they see. They go back and look at the old ultrasound. They say whatever it is that it is smaller so that is good. They don't think it is an Ovary. It is more on the lining of the Uterus. They call it Adenyomis (sp?). It means the muscle grows into the lining of the Uterus and can be Fibroids. I have not one symptom of Fibroids. Actually have the opposite.

So it is a little scary. Four different people have looked at the ultrasound and say not to worry about it. First thing I think is cancer, tumor. The Gastro Dr. did the Ovarian Cancer Blood test. He didn't tell me but I know the test is CA125. I'm afraid one day they will give me bad news about it. It is always in the back of my mind. At this point they think "what else can she complain about"? That is how I feel. They haven't said that. My back is so bad. That pain is just about unbearable today. Makes you wonder. If I was a man, would they have been more agressive with my ultrasound results and did a cat scan or something. Even the rib pain and nausea. My Gastro Dr. thinks it is scar tissue. If a man, would the surgeon go inside and take a look? Believe me, I don't want another surgery. 10 is enough. Just want to feel better.

So, you are not alone. It may not be a man or woman thing. It may be a Dr. thing. Maybe some more compassionate then others?

Old 04-14-2008, 12:11 AM   #10
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

Fabby: Your midol comment made me laugh till I almost wet my pants and also made me think of another women's issue that has still not come fully out of the dark ages....menopause. At the turn of the last century all the way up through the 1940's and 1950's some women were actually put in mental health facilities, because of the symptoms of menopause. They were diagnosed with hysteria and some women actually spent the rest of their lives there. I can't even tell you about some of the "treatments" given to women to "cure" them. Suffice it to say that these "treatments" were very obviously dreamed up by men.

Even today, if you take a look over on the menopause boards, you'll see that women are still struggling to get even basic explainations from their docs about the many debilitating symptoms of meno. I know women who were top executives in corporate jobs who have either taken a leave of absense or retired early, because they couldn't effectively do their jobs anymore. And most have been sent off to a therapist and told "good luck, dear".

My heart goes out to all of us here on the boards, including the men. I really feel that CPers in general are undertreated and ignored or pushed off on the next guy. I'm convinced that I've been dismissed by a lot of docs over the years, as soon as they see what meds I take, males AND females alike.

Old 04-14-2008, 04:45 AM   #11
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

Wow, everyone of you have a good point, Hessie & bake & pray, my gosh both of you have been through h***. Bless you both.

Well like I said it has even been a subject that has appeared on tv programs, also if any of you remember all hype about more funds & effort being put into cardiac research for men vs. women.
It is nothing against the men, I have one, I love him more then anything.
Since we went to the same doctor for a couple yrs (yep found myself a new doc) I know how it was. If he had a complaint, tests were ordered, the complete opposite for me, 5,6 visits & nothing.
Yes, women doctors are guilty of this as well, so that was a good point to bring up. I actually chose to see one thinking she would be more compassionate. Wrong. In fact she was the one who lectured me about narotics & she witnessed first hand how bad I was, & sent me into the hospital. She complained about having to give me vicodin, which did nothing nor did I ask for it. Crazy.
If is wasn't for the fact my husband has to live with three females he would not even believe PMS existed. now of course he threatens to move in the garage, can't say I blame him.
It is sad, just sad. I have to admit I am fearful at times of saying what is wrong to the doctors, I have been ignored so much in the past it does effect how you feel in regaurds to dealing with them.
Yes it is true womem seek medical attention more or faster then a man. I think part of the reason is we are for the most part the primary caregivers. So alot of the time if mom is down life for everyone can change drastically.
I totally agree, if my husband had one month of my menstual cramps he would not get out of the bed, that I do know.
I for one am sick & tired of it. After what I have been through, heck which is nothing compared to some of you, I definantly feel you have really push to make sure you are taken seriously.
Bad enough we have to deal with doctors who worry more about pleasing the insurance companies & pharmacutical then caring for their patients. Thanks eveyone, yes I know it really comes down to having a doctor who cares. If you are lucky enough to have one they are worth their weight in gold, & the value of gold is way up there. Sammy

Old 04-14-2008, 06:42 AM   #12
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

I just have to put my $.02 worth in here. When my wife would go to our family doctor, all she had to do was shed a tear and the script pad would come out. I would go and because "men don't cry" complain about a much worse pain than my wife had. I would get a quick once over and be told to take tylenol. So sometimes it works the other way too.

Old 04-15-2008, 05:35 PM   #13
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

Fred, I would like the name of that doctor. Let me tell you I hve shed buckets on a few occasions with this & pretty much just got a look like "whats up with this women". I will say when gagging or vomiting along with crying got one docs attention, I hope to never have to go through that again, & that is a fear I will have until or if this pain ever goes away. I am sure men experaince this at times to, but I do honestly believe women get over looked more often. I wish we all got taken serioulsy & did not have to suffer at all.

Had a new therapist today the one I use was out sick. No way will he be doing therapy on me agian. All the yelping & the guy just looked at me, after the other pt saying we will have to take it really slow. He said how swollen I was today, you think that should have given him the hint? To give him credit he did give me some good advice, but advice is all I want from him. I am miserable today. No relief. This is honestly the toughest time time in my life, I feel totally helpless & am really just fed up.

Old 04-16-2008, 01:30 PM   #14
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen

So sorry about your "trials". Wouldn't it be nice if we could just wish this crap away? Unfortunately we can't so just hang in there it will get better.

Old 04-16-2008, 01:43 PM   #15
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Re: Ladies, would like your thoughts, no offense gentlemen


This is a great topic, and a valid one too!

I feel very "listened to" by my GP, and by my PM, my NeuroSurgeon, not so much. Whenever I would tell him that I had read something, or learned something or had researched something, he would tell me "You have to get off of that message board". He knew I particpated in the back boards here back before my surgery, and I would come in with questions and he HATED that! I guess he felt like I was questioning HIS "authority" or whatever, but I was just trying to be informed. But from what I learned here, most Neuros have that "God" complex anyway...LOL, they all seemed to do it. So, I just ignored him and went about my business! It drove him batty though!!

Good luck Sammy, I know you've been through the wringer lately with your surgery and now with PT. I've been keeping you in my thoughts.
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