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Old 04-30-2008, 12:37 PM   #1
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Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

I know that I have had a lot of STRESS going on recently and I think it has really started to break me mentally. I have been off the Ultram(tramadol) for over 2 weeks now. My question is can it have a delayed depression effect? I do know a little about post acute withdrawal syndrome or SNRI/SSRI discontinuation syndrome so maybe this is what is happening. I'm not sure what to do, but maybe I should call my psych and let her know. Of couse she'll automatically want to put me on more meds and I really don't want that if I can hold out.

Maybe i have just overpowered my bi-polar meds, you know more stress & depression than the meds can handle, kind of like more pain than your pain meds can handle. I don't know if that holds true or not. I just want some opinions, advice, support, prayer,or all of the above. Let me have it.

brian

 
Old 04-30-2008, 01:59 PM   #2
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian, I am responding as I can only do two for you. Support and Prayer, advice I dont really know..... 2 weeks is along time to be off the meds and only suffer now......... you should be praising yourself for being off the so long. Stress....... of course if makes you depressed.........

If it is depressing stress as in worry stress, rather than "busy stress " of course you are going to be depressed. I dont have the busy stress as in not enough hours in the day... but I sure do have the worry stress......
My mum died 3 years ago and it has changed our lives big time...... if you asked me 4 years ago i could not believe how my life has changed so so much. My father comes and stayes every weekend and one night during the week.......... and calls in whenever.......... He isnt with me he is with my sister...... He is totally depressed but is taking nothing for it as he cant see how depressed he is......... no the world is wrong....... people are wrong.. they all annoy him.......... no interest in anything......... he is thrown on the bed when he could be doing things........ I get so frustrated to see him there lying there when he should be trying to move on..... with life....... He is thrown there and I cant move some days in pain...... he is healthier than I am, and I feel he doesnt want to live and I do............ My heart goes out to him, as I miss my mum so much and he misses his wife. But I have a family and basically every weekend here is getting to me....... and during the week aswell........ so I can relate to depressing stress and worry. Sorry Brian I said I would offer support and prayer......... looks like I turned this into a right rant about my stress sorry........ Maybe I should just stick to the prayer for you...... what do you think? Hang in there brian,, I know you have alot going on..... take one step at a time. Think for today, yesterday is gone. Round 1

 
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Old 04-30-2008, 03:32 PM   #3
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian,

What exactly are the feelings you are having that lead you to thinking you're depressed. I mean clinical depression, not "boy I'm feeling down today." I'm not doubting you at all buddy, I just want to help.

I am being treated for major depression. It's a clinical diagnosis, not some kind of ultra depression category. I just happen to meet certain criteria that lean to this diagnosis. And I'm familiar with the signs.

steve

 
Old 04-30-2008, 04:19 PM   #4
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian: First, I just want to say I'm sorry you have been going through this. Second, I don't know if you remember, but in previous posts I mentioned my husband has Type II BPD. He does not present with the mania, most commonly associated with BPD. His is more of an obsessive behavior and depression type, if I am to understand his psychiatrist.

Along with his BP meds, he takes Lexapro. I know you told me at one time what you took, but I apologize that I don't remember. But I believe that you mentioned that you stopped taking anti-depressants a while back.

Maybe it is time for a tweak in your meds. You've had so much going on lately. I know my husband has had several adjustments in his meds over the years. And while I don't understand the BPD meds as well as some, I've always seen it as similar to the way our pain meds need adjusting from time to time.

I would say you are right about talking to your psych right now. What can it hurt? I am so glad I have my psychiatrist. (I have anxiety) Sessions with him are so different than when I talk to friends or family. He really has a way of helping me see myself in a different way. I have to say I don't always agree with what he says, when I walk out the door, but it never fails that I tend to agree after I've had a little time to really think about it.

And like Steve said, it is, in many cases, a chemical imbalance. With all of the med changes you've made recently, I'm sure your chemistry has changed one way or the other.

Hang in there, Brian. I know you will get through this. I'm really glad to see you asking again. That in itself, is a positive sign to me. God Bless and I am still (as always) lifting you up in prayer. Take care, cmpgirl

 
Old 04-30-2008, 04:41 PM   #5
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Yes I do have Bi-polar II with Major Depression. I was diagnosed years ago with Major Depression w/suicidal tendencies. Then after trying a multitude of anti-depressant and things not getting much better, they finally diagnosed me as Bi-polar II(mostly depression) and also I have major anxiety and have experienced panic attacks before. I think that I am just feeling completely overwhelmed, and that I have too much on my plate. I just feel like I can't handle responsibility right now and I want to run away.

I do have some great news and hopefully this will help the way that I have been feeling. My niece and nephew are starting daycare this Monday. Woo hoo, yes. It's not that I don't like them, I just can not handle the responsibility, not getting enough sleep, which makes things even worse. I have so many worries and it feels like my mind is rushing 1000 miles per hour.

Steve, you asked what else I am feeling. I am not really even looking forward to tomorrow or the next day. I have had feelings like "gee I hope that I don't wake up tomorrow because I can't handle another day". It gets even worse when I don't have much sleep, have to watch the kids, drop them off with another family member(which is not really adequate to watch them or possibly even safe to). I am not making it to any meetings because of this and my spirit is really starting to go to despair. I am having thoughts of using but I know that I have to be there for the kids and my brother's gf. I know that I need to put myself first but don't know how to do it anymore. I have also been having more pain, more muscle tenseness, more anxiety, more problems going to sleep, which leads to the viscious cycle as you know. I think that once the day care starts hopefully things will calm down.

Steve, you know ALL OF THE RESPONSIBLITIES that I have and just how much that I do. I have even thought about drinking or starting smoking cigarettes again but then the other part of me knows how bad this is. Just please pray for me buddy. I am the one that is falling apart at the moment.

brian

p.s. my carpal tunnel pain has also been getting worse and I think if I ever had to get surgery for that, then what would I do about my bills or if I ever had to go on disability, what would I do about my credit card bills(luckily I am on a debt management program) but still pay $500/month for that. I just maxed out my flexibile spending account for the year so now I will have to pay for all my rx's and I am freaking out. I just need to sit down logically and write out a budget and stick to it. I am starting to pick up bad behaviours again.

p.s.s I wish that I could go back on the Klonopin that I used to take. I never did abuse it but you know there is no way in he** that my psychiatrist is going to put me on a benzo. I do remember how bad it was to go off of that in like a week and that was terrible, absolutely terrible.

Last edited by brianpain33; 04-30-2008 at 05:14 PM.

 
Old 04-30-2008, 06:48 PM   #6
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian,

Stress absolutely contributes to depression. Lack of sleep contributes to depression. When I finally decided I had to quit working, it came after weeks of poor sleep, major political battles on the job, long hours of work trying to make deadlines, battling heavy traffic every day, and trying to keep up with a teenaged daughter, husband, house, dinner, etc. I knew I was losing it when I locked myself in my room because my birthday lunch at work had been canceled. Nothing mattered to me, and I lost hope and joy, and had the same thoughts as you....like "if I died, it would be okay with me." I quit fairly soon after that.

Once I got my stress levels reduced, the depression lifted. I think getting quality sleep is KEY. You also need to change the things that are causing your stress. Obviously, you have way too much on your plate, and your body is finally saying, ENOUGH! Stress can increase your pain, ruin your sleep, and yes, cause depression. You've got to give yourself a break in some area of your life. The kids going to daycare is a step in the right direction. Do what you can to take care of YOU. Vent, scream, rant, throw things....whatever it takes to work out the bad feelings. We can handle anything you throw at us. Just do it.

It feels as though there is no end, but it WILL get better. Try to think about how far you have come, all the good things you have accomplished. Remember how many people care about you. Try to let good thoughts permeate your mind, find as many ways to relax as you can.

I know it's all easier said than done. I can totally relate to where you are and have experienced it first hand. It did pass, but I had to make changes in order to give my body a break. I hope you can do that. But also realize just how much you are loved, respected and prayed for. I hope that thought helps you to get through this.

I am praying for you constantly. Keep posting if it helps. We all want the best for you, and you deserve it, sweetie.

Let us know how it's going....

((Hugs)) and ((Prayers))
TexMom

 
Old 04-30-2008, 07:13 PM   #7
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forginon HB User
Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian,

I have no advice med-wise. You're already doing a good job of taking everything into account.

I'm really glad for the coming dare care. I agree that should bring some relief.

So here's my thinking. You should try to offload as much as you possibly can, and I believe you may need to be very agressive in this. Make a list of everything, and I mean everything you can think of that you are responsible for or things expected of you. Be brutal - list everything. Then go item by item identifying who else could possibly do this thing. Again, be brutal. Anything that could be done by someone else- mark it as such. With the items that remain, ID those that could possibly be deleted - be brutal! Also ID which items could be put off 'til later. For those items that remain, ID how little you could do to fulfill that responsibility. Also, for the remaining items, who can team with you to neet that responsibility? Finally, for those items that you've successfully deleted or massaged, how long can they remain that way?

Now see what's left. If the list hasn't taken a serious hit, you haven't been brutal enough. Keep in mind we're talking about your ability to thrive right now. We're not talking about forever, just for the time being. If you can't offload things now, your ability to continue to do any of them is at risk. Make this point clear to anyone who gives you grief when you ask for their help and understanding.

Please give this serious consideration. Even if you think it won't work give it a genuine effort. Really put everything you have into this. I believe if you go after this as I've suggested you'll be amazed with the results. This is done in business all the time, and very successfully. Those who work this in their personal lives also find success, IF they really apply themselves.

Have a good friend or loved one work this with you. I bet you'll find your load effectively lightened.

Good Luck Buddy!

steve

Last edited by forginon; 04-30-2008 at 07:20 PM.

 
Old 04-30-2008, 07:24 PM   #8
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Wow Steve I never really ever thought about doing something like that. That really could work well. I also thought that if I started a genuine exercise program that it would help with the anxiety and depression. The one thing about that is it seems like when I do exert myself physically, it takes ALOT of energy out of me and I have to recoop the next day or two. What the ? I thought that exercise and being physical was supposed to help with energy? Maybe when I do exert myself, and my body temperature rises, it releases too much fentanyl from the patch. Then if this happens I feel somewhat good for the moment and then experience somewhat of a drug hangover the next day. Is this possible? maybe I'll ask in a different thread. Or maybe my a** is in such bad physical conditioning that I do completely wear myself out.

brian

p.s. Steve can you come over and help me with the list and be my personal manager

Last edited by brianpain33; 04-30-2008 at 07:25 PM.

 
Old 04-30-2008, 07:46 PM   #9
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forginon HB User
Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian,

I so wish I could do that for you. We'd do real damage to your list. I really hope someone can come alongside you and be your partner working your list. You know, if it's allowed, I'd be happy to work that with you online. I'll do whatever I can to help.

You must create the initial list of responsibilities & expectations (of you), and from there you should have help. It's critical. If it can't be me, you need someone who understands you, your circumstances, and the urgency of making this work. If I can help just let me know. Heck, we can all help! Can you imagine what all the brainpower and compassion in our group could do to your list? You'd be left with nothing to do but rest and get into a better place.

steve

 
Old 04-30-2008, 07:47 PM   #10
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

I think Steve is right in his thinking. It seems at least on the surface of what you discuss openly on this board, that you have a very complex situation. Lots of your meds are interacting with each other...Not to mention your baseline condition(s).

If you offload some of your responsibilities, it will reduce your stress. Stress produces anxiety and the combination of both increase your pain proportionally, as well as effect your other conditions.

Also, try the best you can to relax....As difficult as that may seem sometimes. Lastly.....And please don't take this personally.....I'm really just trying to help....You have a tendency to get worked up at times and over react at times. By reducing your output, the "storm" may calm a bit. Sleep is the best prescription of all....The body needs it, especially those with chronic conditions. Try to get some rest.

This may be putting the cart before the horse, but disability may be something you should pursue at some point....If nothing else, to reduce your output and reallocate the focus on you and your condition(s).

Regards,

Ex

 
Old 04-30-2008, 07:58 PM   #11
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Executor View Post
I.You have a tendency to get worked up at times and over react at times. Ex
Who me??? Yes I know that I do and it's hard to catch myself sometimes so sometimes I really, really need to hear someone tell me. It's time to try to get the ruminating under control.

brian

 
Old 04-30-2008, 09:08 PM   #12
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian: I think Steve's suggestion is a really good one, but I'd just like to add something. I know if Chrissy were on right now, she would tell you to please, please, try to get to a meeting as hard as you can. I think it is a priority too. Have you talked to your sponsor today?

Hang in there my friend. I hope I wasn't overstepping. I am praying, as always and I am here for you if you need anything. God Bless, cmpgirl

 
Old 05-01-2008, 01:35 AM   #13
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Hey Brian,

I dont know if you remember, but I was on 8 50 mg tramadol for almost 15 years and recently went through a taper so I could start on the methadone.

I think the depression you feel after coming off this drug is very real, and whats more, I think it lasts for quite a while. I still do not feel I am my 'old self' and have felt kind of bleak and draggy ever since I went off it.

I was taking 40 mgs of prozac a day prior to stopping the tramadol, and I havent asked to have that raised, but maybe I should. I am feeling better than I was at first, IMHO tramadol is just a weird med all the way around, and it doesnt surprise me that I am still having trouble coming off it even after all this time.

Like I said, it is improving, and I am sure yours will as well, but with your BPD you need to be careful as I know you know!

Good luck and hang in there, are you on any similar antidepressants? if not, a low dose may help, and as long as you dont have too much trouble with the mania side of your illness, you should be fine.

Hugs, Fabby

 
Old 05-01-2008, 01:31 PM   #14
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabrashamx View Post
I dont know if you remember, but I was on 8 50 mg tramadol for almost 15 years
Good luck and hang in there, are you on any similar antidepressants? Fabby
Fabby,
I am on NO antidepressants and I am going to fight hard to not go on any in the future. I broke down last night and cried and my ankle was hurting like crazy. I don't know if you remember but like 2 months ago I got really mad because my dog would not go in the house or come to me. I went to get in the car REALLY REALLY fast and slammed my ankle against the bottom metal jamb of the car. The podiatrist took several x-rays and said it was not broke. however, he said something about some type of ? forming around the joint becuase of the inflammation. I can move my foot and ankle in a circular motion and it will crack and pop and feel like the ankle joint is just grinding. any ideas? I just forget the term the podiatrist used.

I actually took 1 more Percocet last night than I was allowed. I even took 1 or 2 Ibuprofen last night. No it was not because of the emotional pain either. It was because of the physical pain. I have plenty left because I have not been taking the max either. I have an ankle brace but it bothers my nerve in the bottom of my foot so I can't wear it all the time. The podiatrist says if it doesn't get better he will order an MRI. Also, my carpal tunnel has been getting worse. I just feel like I need a break to get better. I just don't know how much longer I can keep it together. I don't have a whole lot of support other than you guys. Please help me, yes I am really asking for help now because I know that I need it

brian

 
Old 05-01-2008, 01:42 PM   #15
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Re: Depression setting in - related to Ultram stoppage??

Brian: Can I ask why you are fighting the anti d's? You may have mentioned this before, but I must have missed it. I'm not judging or anything, just curious. Does it have something to do with the side effects? Or your other issues?

I am still praying loud for you, my friend, and I am here for you. I know you aren't feeling it right now, but you are strong. Heck, you have accomplished so much, considering all you have dealt with. I know that strength is hard to hold on to, sometimes. Especially when you are getting slammed with the pain and the emotions. I am willing to help carry the load for you, anytime and any way that I can. ((((((Brian)))))) God Bless, cmpgirl

 
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