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Old 08-06-2009, 08:03 AM   #1
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Unhappy Sleep, sleep help

Hi Everybody,

I have had terrible sleep patterns over the last few years.

Basically I wake up almost every hour, throughout the night till morning. Sometimes I have to pee and sometimes I just wake up and usually smoke a cigg then go back to sleep and wake up an hour or so later, and so on and so on.

I tried melotonin 3mg, that actually did help a little and maybe I could sleep as long as a couple hours striaght on that. I used to take tylenol PM like skittles but I totally stopped that after about 4 years of taking it all the time. Anyways it helped me get to sleep, but then I would still wake up thrpughout the night.

Now I know the pain is a major factor of this, with my foot and back and shoulder, I get some really bad pains when I lie down in a bed, it actually very hard for me to find a position with as little pain as possible.

But I also know the opiates have something to do with it as well. I hear alot of people complain about sleep disturbances and I;m wonering if anybody knows why opiates cause that and if anybody can relate to what I'm saying and has some advice for me.

Thank You So Much!!

 
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:26 AM   #2
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

Just a stab in the dark here, but based on reading many of your posts, I speculate that it could be T related, as well as low BPL. Low BPL is a primary reason CPers wake up in the middle of the night.

I take my LA med 3 x (Kadian) and specifically, I take my nighttime dose right at bedtime. It really helps me sleep through the night. Granted, sometimes the pain will wake me up, but I sleep better since going to this regimen.

Lastly, your smoking may be a issue as well. As you know, it's a physically dependent substance, and just like your BPL with pain meds, you've got something similar going on with the nicotine in your system. I'd try a patch at night maybe...If you think the "need" to smoke is making you get up. Nicotine delivered via a non smoke route is much safer anyway.

Best of luck to you.

Regards,

Ex

 
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:01 AM   #3
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

Hello Leo123. I also have the same problem. I suffer from chronic neck pain and I have hard time sleeping cause of it. I've never had any sleeping problems before the chronic pain started. In fact, I was ALWAYS sleeping 9 hours. I also cannot find a position to lay my neck on the pillow without feeling pain. It doesn't seem doctors have any answers for this either. Did you talk about this with your doctors and what did they tell you??

Ultram and tramadol won't let me sleep a minute at night even if I will take it together with a sleeping pill. So here you go, there are some medication that can interfer with sleep.

Wish I could have my life back without chronic pain and the ability to sleep 9 hours, what a DREAM.

Do you think you can tell me how were you injured?.

Last edited by nochange; 08-06-2009 at 09:15 AM.

 
Old 08-06-2009, 10:09 AM   #4
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

What is low BPL?

Thank You

Last edited by Leo123; 08-06-2009 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Wrote fast and not clear, would like to rewrite later.

 
Old 08-06-2009, 02:46 PM   #5
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

Low Blood Plasma levels.. no drug in the blood stream ha ha

 
Old 08-06-2009, 02:50 PM   #6
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

I have sleep issues and I swear it is med related. I take MS Contin 2x day along with Percocet for BT. I find if I take my 2nd dose of MSContin too close to bed I will not sleep. I think the meds make me AWAKE. I heard someone at pharmacy mention that the Oxycodone's they were presribed made them wired as well.

 
Old 08-06-2009, 07:16 PM   #7
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post

What is low BPL?
Blood plasma level is the amount of med (serum) actively in your system. For each med, the manufacturer provides a chart that shows the amt of blood actively in one's system at certain time intervals, usually hours. The serum amt is usually the X axis and the time interval (hours) is the Y axis.

For example, Purdue Pharma (maker of OC) shows a graph in their package insert comparing 10mg of OC (time release) taken every 12 hours vs a single dose of 10mg Oxy IR. Same amt of med in both cases, but the OC provides a higher measurable BPL.

When one's BPL dips, there is less pain relief and depending on how long the med has been taken, dependance can be an issue and mini WDs can occur.



Quote:
Originally Posted by katlovesdogs View Post

I have sleep issues and I swear it is med related.
Yes, it very well can be. Meds effect everyone differently. Two people can take the same med and it can make one person very drowsy and the next person wired. Benedryl is a good example of this....Very sedating to some, while in others, it's can be a stimulant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katlovesdogs View Post

I take MS Contin 2x day along with Percocet for BT. I find if I take my 2nd dose of MSContin too close to bed I will not sleep. I think the meds make me AWAKE. I heard someone at pharmacy mention that the Oxycodone's they were presribed made them wired as well.
Oxy appeals to the Mu receptor which tends to be the excitement pathway, so it's pretty typical for those who take it to have sleeping issues at night. Morphine, on the other hand, tends to make most people drowsy, but again, everyone is different and it sounds like it keeps you from sleeping.

The medical community has been studying this concept and can't quite come up with a sound explanation. It's one of the great unknowns in medicine in terms of the exact mechanism, but they do know that it works (end result). For example, some meds produce a "paradoxical" effect in people....Opposite from what it's intended. Also, "like can treat like"....For example, it's amazing to me that they give amphetamines to those with hyperactivity issues (ADHD). Amphetamines in most people cause euphoria and excitement, and is often used to help people stay awake. But, in those with ADHD, it is very calming and can even be sedating.

In your case, you may need to talk to your Doc about something to help you sleep. All the research has shown that a lack of sleep overall, and especially a lack of deep REM sleep, can elevate pain levels. Lack of sleep can also bring on anxiety as well as a host of other issues.

Regards,

Ex

Last edited by Executor; 08-06-2009 at 07:44 PM.

 
Old 08-09-2009, 03:56 AM   #8
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

I have multiple spinal injuries and have had multiple surgeries lumbar to cervical and am in chronic pain. It impacts my sleep deeply, so I have to take 1/2 Ambien every night before I go to bed. Or I wake up in pain. I the Ambien also relaxes me and really helps me sleep through the night.


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Old 08-09-2009, 10:16 PM   #9
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

When we raised the dose of my fentanyl patch, I was actually wired instead of tired. It's amazing how meds can create different responses in different people.

 
Old 08-10-2009, 09:53 AM   #10
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

I tried ambien, it did help me fall asleep, but then I still wake up an hour or two after only initially falling asleep.

Also ambien made me sleep walk a couple of times, it was pretty scary. one time I ended up in the middle of the street with my PJ's and one of the neighbors see's me wondering around aimlessly and walks me back to my house as if I was some little kid who was running around and she was bringing me back to my parents.

It was a little emberassing. I must have seemed totally out of it. That was the last time I took it.

 
Old 08-10-2009, 10:02 AM   #11
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

I have had this same problem from time to time, I take 30mg oxycodone. When I asked my PM doc about benedryl he advised against it as it could slow my breathing down so much that I may forget to breathe, Instead he suggested the melatonin which I've found only works once in a while. I don't want ambien because of all the sleepwalking stories that I've heard about. (also sleep eating)

 
Old 08-10-2009, 12:38 PM   #12
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

If you want to go natural Meletonin works pretty good compared to what out there.

The Meletonin helps me get to sleep as good as Benadryl or ambien, the only probelm I have is staying asleep for any period of time longer than an hour or two. (two if I'm lucky) Which all of those three can;t help me to do.

 
Old 08-10-2009, 03:40 PM   #13
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

I have tried many things for insomnia at different times. Here is a list of what I have tried in the past:

Melatonin
Benadryl
Benadryl with Melatonin
Ambien
Ambien CR
Lunesta
Klonopin & Benadryl (currently taking this)

Since you had a problem with the Ambien, I would not even suggest the Ambien CR so that is out. Have you ever tried Lunesta? It is another sleep medication that might help you out. If not then you might have to start on a benzodiazepine like Klonpin, Valium, Xanax, etc. I am currently taking 0.5mg Klonopin and 25mg Benadryl to help me sleep through the night and it's working.

brian

p.s. Let us know when you get your testosterone tests back

 
Old 08-10-2009, 07:51 PM   #14
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

Hey Leo,

Sleeping as a CP patient can certainly be difficult - I have trouble getting to sleep and then I wake up numerous times with pain also.

I have recently been given Klonopin (Clonazepam) to help me sleep and it really does work, it was such a relief. I do have to take a high dose because of my silly metabolism though. I also still wake up a couple of times during the night but find that it's easier to go back to sleep - sometimes I need an extra 0.25mg of Klonopin or something like that. If it's pain, then I might need BT med. I currently take 3mg Klonopin 1 hour before sleep.

Smoking during the night is a definite problem if you want to go back to sleep - even the nicotine patch will keep you awake (one of the reasons why they have developed the 16 hour patch). Nicotine is a long lasting stimulant and really gives the system a pump. If at all possible it's best to stop smoking at least 2 hours before you want to try and sleep and not smoke during the night. This could be having a big impact on your sleep and also your pain. It stimulates to a much greater degree than coffee and has a longer half life - as well as all those other chemicals which affect hormones, unfortunately not much is published about that.

I hope you find something that works. I can't take ambien either - very dangerous stuff for me. Do you take your morphine right before bed? Ex often says that this helps her drop right off to sleep.

 
Old 08-10-2009, 10:02 PM   #15
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Re: Sleep, sleep help

I have never slept well on meds like vicodin, percocet, etc. It tends to give me what i call "surface sleep" where I always feel as if I'm just below awake and not quite fully asleep. Thus I try to avoid those meds after 5 pm. However, if I'm in pain I often choose sleeplessness over being in pain.
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