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Old 09-02-2009, 10:41 AM   #1
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Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Hi all it's my second week on Androgel and I'[m doing better than ever.

I was at the gym yesterday and I could not beleive the strength I had, I'm sleeping better and just feeling better overall.

Unfortunatley I have to stop in a few days because my doctor wants me to take another bloodtest to assure the my low testosterone is not the resukt of a brain tumor.

I told the doc I take opiates occasionally like a few percocet once a day or so because of my foot and back problem which he knows about cause he has my old records. So he knows that opiates might be a factor. But if he knew how much I really took he would have known forsure.

But for some reason I was afriad to tell him that I take opiates as much as I do. Maybe I was afriad cause he seemed inexperienced about certain things and I was afriad he would say well you have to get off the opiates otherwise I can't help you with your T problem or something like that. I guess I just know the stigma that comes with the way certain docs look at patients who need opiates on a regular basis to deal with there pain and if this doc was one of those I just did not want to deal with it.

Anybody else do this before or experince this before, like they told there GP about there PM and the GP would not help them with certain health issues like low T on account of it?

Just Curious or am I worried for nothing. Obviously my doc knows I have chronic pain cause of my conditions, so what was I worried about. WHo knows now.

 
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:36 PM   #2
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

I'll be very honest with you Leo....I think that perhaps you are causing yourself more trouble and anguish by not telling the Dr. the truth. For example, if you're not telling him that you take narcotics regularly, then no wonder he's probably running all sorts of test trying to determine why your T is low. You're a younger male who is seemingly healthy. If you told him that you're a CPer, then he would probably know that the meds are the cause.

As long as the meds you're taking are legitimately prescribed to you, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Who is he to tell you to "get off your meds"? Dr.s take a oath to "do no harm" and legally, the have to treat a condition if you have it. He just can't decide to not treat your low T because he doesn't want to, or thinks you should get off of meds. Now, if he doesn't think you have low T, or thinks your #s are normal, then that's a different story.

I think you need to level with him and be honest. Isn't this Doc your GP? He, of all people, should know about your pain meds. If you're going to a PM Doc for your CP and your GP doesn't know, then that's a big risk on your part. Your GP is charged with managing your overall health, and you're leaving out a very big piece of the puzzle.

Also, I thought you were supposed to stop the Androgel right away because your Doc was going to re-test you? Previously, you said "When I saw the doctor yesterday he said no and apologized for the confusion from the nurse (Her english sucked) and said he indeed wants me to have taken the T test again prior to the gel.....So now I have to stop the andogel for a couple of weeks and get retested for the stuff mentioned above."

If you've been taking the gel for upwards of two weeks now, then your levels will be way up. If he tests you and sees your #s are higher, he may not think you have low T, and thus, may not prescribe it any more. Your T levels aren't going to drop overnight when you stop. At this point, it would take a bit of time for them to drop back to their normal, or pre-Androgel levels.

I'm not sure what you doing with all of this, but it is very confusing to me.

Ex

Last edited by Executor; 09-02-2009 at 07:47 PM.

 
Old 09-03-2009, 09:18 AM   #3
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Yes you are 100% right I guess I was doing more harm than good and your right I have nothing to worry about telling the full extent of my CP therapy. Everything I get is perscribed properly and legally and my medical situation justifies it to and what he feels shouldn't matter assuming if he even did have any reservations about it. It's just the stigma and I know how alot of docs feel about it and some just don't beleive in it unless your like dying of cancer regardless of your pain level. They just say you need physical therapy and find new way to cope.

- Oh also another big reason is I go to Kaiser and I was worried that they have a differet philosphy on the subject of CP.

Anyways your right even though I did tell him I take a few percocet a day that is a quarter truth (if that) and I should tell him the full extent of my meds, I guess my mind just got worried over nothing.

Also yes you are right about him wanting me to stop the gel and take a blood test but I read the info packet on the gel and it says if you stop applying the gel, that within 5 days your T-level will return to normal, so the doc just put 3 weeks (I wrote 2 weeks below even though he said three cause my initial plan knowing the actual is 5 days was to be safe and stop for a couple) for lack of education on the gel. I will be taking the test not this Monday but next, so i plan to stop the Gel tomorrow. Well tomorrow will be my last application.

I'll tell you another thing I just keep feeling better and better everyday and I almost hate to stop it, I know I have to because if I fail to do as the doctor said he can really stop giving me T therapy, but it just so great to be able to start feeling better and stronger both mentally and physically and I'm afraid if I stop I will start to feel like crap again.

But of course I'm going to stop and again the only reason I haven;t is because why be off it for three full weeks when I can stay of it for only 9 days and still have my old T count return and then take the test and still properly take the Test he wants me to take. The packet says 5 days and I;m going to be off it for about 9 days, so I think for sure by 9 days I'll have my old T count back.

What do you think?

Thanks for your advice as always!

And today I'm going to call the doc office and see what my results are from the last test I took while on the gel, I can;t wait to see that it went up at least into the 400 - 500 range if not more.

Last edited by Leo123; 09-03-2009 at 09:20 AM.

 
Old 09-03-2009, 05:48 PM   #4
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post

It's just the stigma and I know how alot of docs feel about it and some just don't beleive in it unless your like dying of cancer regardless of your pain level.
I understand about the stigma, but you have to think of it this way....Docs can't "help" you if they don't know all the information. Also, I wouldn't want Docs to communicate with one another at some point in the future and have your GP not know what is going on. It could be very embarrassing, if not cause some issues in your care. Better to fess up now.


Quote:
Anyways your right even though I did tell him I take a few percocet a day that is a quarter truth (if that) and I should tell him the full extent of my meds, I guess my mind just got worried over nothing.
Given one of your posts where you said you were on a combination of a large amt of Avinza and Roxy...That's a fairly big regimen...If he knew this, I have to think he would heavily speculate that the meds were the reason. I'm not saying you don't need a bunch of tests, but rather, different input criteria change one's possible diagnosis. Morphine by nature is very sedating, so that alone could be the cause. All the Oxy (you once said as much as 8 per day) would also be a big factor. The combination of the two, is even more powerful information.


Quote:
Also yes you are right about him wanting me to stop the gel and take a blood test but I read the info packet on the gel and it says if you stop applying the gel, that within 5 days your T-level will return to normal, so the doc just put 3 weeks (I wrote 2 weeks below even though he said three cause my initial plan knowing the actual is 5 days was to be safe and stop for a couple) for lack of education on the gel. I will be taking the test not this Monday but next, so i plan to stop the Gel tomorrow. Well tomorrow will be my last application.

But of course I'm going to stop and again the only reason I haven;t is because why be off it for three full weeks when I can stay of it for only 9 days and still have my old T count return and then take the test and still properly take the Test he wants me to take. The packet says 5 days and I;m going to be off it for about 9 days, so I think for sure by 9 days I'll have my old T count back.

What do you think?
To be honest, I have no idea. I guess I'm a little surprised that it only takes 5 days for your levels to return to normal. I'm not doubting the data, just saying that logically speaking, it surprises me. I just wouldn't want to take the chance that the numbers were higher than they should be and then the Doc not implement an HRT strategy. You may want to fess up here as well and just be honest and say that the med made you feel so well, that you took it longer than you should. Or, tell him that you misunderstood the nurse.

However, you know your Doc best and how he would react, so you should do what you think is best given your patient / Doc relationship. T levels are always higher in the AM, so get tested in the afternoon (if possible).

 
Old 09-04-2009, 08:55 AM   #5
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

So I got the T test reults back. That is the test I took last week after being on the gel for only like 8 days.

My total T count was "715" Can you beleive it! I was so happy to hear that.

But something else did cause me concern and the nurse told me the doc said not to worry about it because this T test does not count since I was on the Gel and that is my FHS and LH levels.

They came out to like 1 for both of them which sound really low and out of the norm to me. Now it could be miscommunication between myself and the nurse since her english was bad and when I said i wanted the LH and FHS reults at first she had like no clue what I was talking about and then when she gave me the reults she said some funny stuff to that did not make sense.

But anyways if I had level of FHS and LH is 1 how bad is that? And regardless if I'm on the gel or not wouldn't I want those to come out normal even while I'm on the gel, I don't understand why they doctor is saying don't worry about those?

 
Old 09-04-2009, 03:28 PM   #6
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Happy Friday Friends,
I'm sorry to sound stupid, but what is Androgel?
Sorry to get off topic for this thread.
Thanks for your help.
Peggy

 
Old 09-04-2009, 06:18 PM   #7
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post

So I got the T test reults back. That is the test I took last week after being on the gel for only like 8 days.

My total T count was "715" Can you beleive it! I was so happy to hear that.
This is about what I expected. If you remember, the first couple of weeks, you get a double dose of T....Your own T production plus the HRT. The T levels will level off after about six weeks. Once your body senses a steady dose of HRT, it backs off it's own production a bit.

Nevertheless, the 600-700s is about where you probably want to be. The mean for age group 30-34 is 621. 10th percentile is 388. 90th percentile is 975.

Regards,

Ex

Last edited by Executor; 09-04-2009 at 06:26 PM.

 
Old 09-05-2009, 06:53 PM   #8
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Ex, what would be the T level for a 44 year old man, such as myself? mine tested around 380 when I got my bloodwork done. I don't go to my follow up until September 30. I'am on day 6 and starting to feel better, still not much of a change but something. Ben

 
Old 09-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #9
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr ben View Post

Ex, what would be the T level for a 44 year old man, such as myself? mine tested around 380 when I got my bloodwork done. I don't go to my follow up until September 30. I'am on day 6 and starting to feel better, still not much of a change but something.
The mean for the 40-44 age group is 597. The 5th percentile is 319. The 10th percentile is 378. The 95th pecentile is 978. So, at a level of 380, you're in the 10th percentile for your age. Thus, 90% of all men in your age group have higher T than you. You would need to get to around 600 to be "average." Many HRT experts recommend the upper third. You want to be at least average, or the 50th percentile. Many Docs will target this level.

Protocol callsl for testing around the 30-45 day mark, after beginning HRT. Then again around 6 months, and then yearly from that point on. Whomever is treating you for HRT just wants to make sure that your level is where it should be, and not too low, or too high. Rarely does it get too high, especially with the gel, which is only 1% T. Many men, however, will be too low as it's very tough to get the Rx the right amount right off the bat. Some men need 5g, some 7.5g and some 10g. Also, some men don't absorb the gel well period, and in these cases, protocol recommends shots. Absorption issues can happen at any time in HRT....Initially, or later on. This is why they monitor the levels.

Best of luck to you and hope you start to feel better soon.

Regards,

Ex

 
Old 09-06-2009, 10:33 AM   #10
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

One thing I noticed is the increased body hair around my chest and abdomen area. I gained a little bit of weight as well, about 3 pounds. The androgel must be starting to kick in. One concern I have, this stuff won't give me prostate cancer will it? Like you said, I assume my doctor will monitor my blood levels to make sure my T levels isn't too high and adjust accordingly.

Last edited by mr ben; 09-06-2009 at 10:52 AM.

 
Old 09-06-2009, 01:25 PM   #11
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr ben View Post

One concern I have, this stuff won't give me prostate cancer will it? Like you said, I assume my doctor will monitor my blood levels to make sure my T levels isn't too high and adjust accordingly.
No, HRT won't "give" you cancer or "cause" cancer. There is concern in the medical community that if one were to develop some type of cancer in your life time....Any type....That HRT would speed it up, or advance it's cause.

This is why Docs monitor your prostate via PSA testing. For men, prostate is the most likely type of cancer. For women, it's breast and then ovarian. Colon is a very close second.

If one were to develop cancer one day, the you would be taken off of HRT.

Regards,

Ex

 
Old 09-06-2009, 08:09 PM   #12
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

thanks for the reassurance. I'am excited to know what my T levels will be in 3 weeks when I go for my follow up. Ben

 
Old 09-08-2009, 06:59 PM   #13
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Leo,
For one that was not a smart move not telling your doctor the entire truth. You really need to be completely honest with the doctor about how much pain medication you are taking. You can not control what he is going to think, say, or do about the situation or what his philosophy is going to be. But I would have to guess he is thinking a pituitary tumor because of your age and low T and you saying "well I only take a few Percocets". I bet he will call off the tumor test once you fess up and tell him the honest truth.

I think your T number will probably go down after being on the supplement for about a month. Once you are on it for a few weeks then your body's own natural production usually shuts off so don't expect to have the level where it is currently. It really is about the symptoms (fatigue, energy, depression, abdominal fat, etc) and not necessarily about the number. Don't be SO FOCUSED on the number but on however much Androgel it takes to feel better and for the symptoms of low T to go away. good luck and hopefully your doctor will understand about you not being truthful.

brian

 
Old 09-08-2009, 11:21 PM   #14
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Hi Leo - if you have read any of my past posts you will find that I am in favor of full disclosure to your medical team. You should not hide information from the people treating you. That said I understand what you are saying in your post.

I am no expert by any means but in my UA I don't think they put a number on "how much" I was taking of each medicine, they were only confirming what I was taking and looking for anything not prescribed. I will pull out the report tomorrow but I think I just remember it saying positive/negative on pages and pages. So I personally don't think the doctor is going to see the amount on the test like you think. I also know that the type of med percosette is I don't think it stays in the blood stream like you think. In fact I had one screen where the backup hydrocodones I take did not show up. I didn't get in trouble because my doctor and I have good relationship but I have heard of others getting kicked out of PM for that. I know I defintely took them in max dose for 4 years in a row - so no one ever really explained why they were only trace in my system at the time of the screen.

Anyway - I do hope you have a good conversation with the doctor you have left out of the loop.

 
Old 09-09-2009, 08:55 AM   #15
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Re: Androgel For 2 Weeks (Afraid to tell doc)

Thanks for your replies and I will definitely let the doc know the full extent of my meds the next time we meet.

 
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