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Old 06-10-2010, 03:45 PM   #31
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

Eden,

I'm glad they finally put you on something. It is so crazy going to the ER all the time. Except for a period of time afew years ago when I had 4 stones too big to pass, I have cut down my ER visits almost to 0. Once and awhile one gets unmanagable but my pain meds make such a difference! So hopefully now you will have some relief!

jonnstar, thanks for the well wishes, I will take them!

 
Old 06-15-2010, 06:24 PM   #32
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

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Originally Posted by SpineAZ View Post
If it doesn't work ask about MS Contin 3x a day. From what I've heard it lasts 8-12 hours so if taken 3x a day you get LA coverage continuously.

Opana ER was great and only 2x per day. But had to be taken,each time, one hour before eating and 2 hours after your last meal. I tend to snack lightly thru the day and I'd often be unable to find a good zone in PM to take the med.

MS Contin sedated me a little the first few weeks but I've adjusted and this isn't really an issue in mu daily life.
Hi SpineAZ,

Thanks so much for sharing your MS Contin experience with me, it's really wonderful to get advice from people who have gone through what I'm facing I definitely feel sedated on the MS Contin, but hopefully this won't be a problem for me as soon as I find out which dose if the most comfortable for my pain.

If you don't mind me asking, are you still taking MS Contin, and if so, what is your dose? I've increased my dose twice already, but it seems that I'm just as sluggish even with a low dose. At the moment I'm up to 60 mg every twelve hours, but still relying on breakthrough pain medication QUITE a bit.

Good luck with your pain management It looks like you have suffered through a lot, and I hope you have a great PM doctor!

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Old 06-15-2010, 06:50 PM   #33
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

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Originally Posted by jonnstar View Post
Hiya again Eeden..... just for info, Stadol Nasal Spray is approved by the FDA for all types of severe pain, not just migraine - it might be worth a try if you can convince your doctor to give you a script. It generaly works within 10 minutes, which is a lot quicker than oral drugs like Percodan

Bentyl has been in use for over 50 years, it is a safe and well established drug, again, if your doctor is willing to go out on a limb and give you a trial script for even a few tablets, you could find out of it offers meaningful releif - it may not of course, in which case you never bother with it again, but it just might.
Hi jonnstar, thanks so much for the suggestions, and thanks so much for your research! Stadol does sound like a good idea, so hopefully I can get my doc to agree Having a pain reliever that works within ten minutes would really be great, as it seems that the longer I take oral opioid analgesics, the slower they are to provide relief.

I also wanted to thank you for the information about anti-spasmodics, as I just started one a few days ago. I'm not really sure if it's helping to reduce the pain that well, but it is definitely making the stone move through my body faster, which is a HUGE plus for me, as passing a stone usually takes me about two weeks. My urologist said it will also prevent ureter spasms, which exacerbate the pre-existing pain. Thanks again for sharing all your knowledge with me, I really appreciate it

 
Old 06-15-2010, 06:51 PM   #34
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

My MS Contin is 30 mg 3x a day and Norco 7.5 2-3x a day. I've had a few pain crisis that lead to an extra dose of Norco (I also do Soma 350 2-3x a day)

For me, usually the sedation effects of meds wear off. Soma is that way. Soma sedated me well for about 4 weeks, now not much. I do sleep better on MS Contin than OpanaER and it's less expensive. I just saw an add in Pain Pathways magazine for a new extended relief morphine (can't recall the name). Sometimes when a new drug comes out there are discount cards available to lower the cost for a year or so, so I may do that. The Opana ER discount expired (they said I had used the max amount of discounts).
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:06 PM   #35
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Angry Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

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Originally Posted by Boxerluver View Post
Eden,

I'm glad they finally put you on something. It is so crazy going to the ER all the time. Except for a period of time afew years ago when I had 4 stones too big to pass, I have cut down my ER visits almost to 0. Once and awhile one gets unmanagable but my pain meds make such a difference! So hopefully now you will have some relief!

jonnstar, thanks for the well wishes, I will take them!
Thanks I'm so thrilled that they are finally being understanding of my pain, as it seems like people (esp. ER staff) who have never experienced kidney stones are so quick to think you're lying because you don't fit their expectations of what a kidney stone patient looks like! I really, really, really hope that I'm done with the ER for a while! I'm happy for you that you've managed to avoid that experience for a significant amount of time.

Sorry about that little rant, I'm still fuming after my experience with a really terrible ER doc last week during my latest kidney stone fiasco. He insisted I didn't have stones because they didn't show up on the x-ray (which has a relatively high failure and rarely picks up uric acid stones), despite the fact that my urine was a dark brown reddish color and I was nearly projectile vomiting by that point. And he wanted to prescribe IV Toradol and Vicodin. God, how I hope he experiences a kidney stone one day, if that's what it takes for him to develop some empathy.

 
Old 06-16-2010, 05:44 PM   #36
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

Hey Eden, oh man you ahouldn't have brought that up! I'm gonna get on my soap box but this topic really bothers me. Normally I do not wish bad things for people, but like you have been treated so badly that I do wish they could experience some of these things we go through so they can have some kind of idea.

In addition, all docs should have to experience some of the tests and procedures they prescribe. That movie The Doctor did this after the doc had cancer, he made his fellows experience what it is like to be a patient. They are truly clueless and the only way is for them to experience some of the things we go through. I know why they don't, but I would think it would make them better docs and you would think somewhere they would implement that as part of the training. That they don't speaks volumes!

Here's to staying out of the ER!

 
Old 06-18-2010, 10:56 PM   #37
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

I scanned through this thread and saw some good advice to a young girl in some serious pain, as it seemed for a while advice was all you were able to get! I agree with the many who supported your right to decent and effective pain relief, that should come FIRST, then the causes, remedies, treatment options, etrc. Pain is listed on ER charts and codes as a vital sign (hello, deaf docs), yet I cannot percieve how they would deny you meds when, clinically, they were severely indicated, knowing full well the level of pain these stones are capable of causing. It is in-humane any way you slice it. While I'm thinking about it, one person mentioned Stadol inhaler, it may not be good for a Kidney disease, so the PDR says, it also has a narcotic antagonist in it that can cause withdrawal-like symptoms in a person on Opiate agonists such as morphine. I think they should try you on whatever ends up working to give you back a bit of your life first, then go from there. This is what they should do, but what actually happens, I pray will go in your favor. Jackbeanstalk

 
Old 06-19-2010, 08:53 PM   #38
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

This young lady doesnt have idney disease, and Stadol only induces withdrawl reactions in persons dependant on narcotics, not in people exposed to them ocasionaly/intermitantly.

It as certainly a reasonable option in this young ladys situtaion

 
Old 06-20-2010, 03:09 AM   #39
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

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Originally Posted by Jackbeanstalk View Post
I scanned through this thread and saw some good advice to a young girl in some serious pain, as it seemed for a while advice was all you were able to get! I agree with the many who supported your right to decent and effective pain relief, that should come FIRST, then the causes, remedies, treatment options, etrc. Pain is listed on ER charts and codes as a vital sign (hello, deaf docs), yet I cannot percieve how they would deny you meds when, clinically, they were severely indicated, knowing full well the level of pain these stones are capable of causing. It is in-humane any way you slice it. While I'm thinking about it, one person mentioned Stadol inhaler, it may not be good for a Kidney disease, so the PDR says, it also has a narcotic antagonist in it that can cause withdrawal-like symptoms in a person on Opiate agonists such as morphine. I think they should try you on whatever ends up working to give you back a bit of your life first, then go from there. This is what they should do, but what actually happens, I pray will go in your favor. Jackbeanstalk
Thanks so much for your prayers, Jackbeanstalk, they are greatly appreciated Luckily, I am doing much better now, as I've found a great urologist who is willing to recognize this as a chronic condition, and has no problem prescribing whatever medication is necessary, including opiates/opioids (specifically, MS Contin and Roxicodone), which are currently working wonderfully for me, and letting me get my normal life back (at last) ! At this point, I've pretty much tried all of the preventive methods, but with no success, as I have pre-existing condition that causes frequent formation of kidney stones, as well as an extensive genetic history of chronic kidney stones. You're SO right about how doctors can be downright cruel and inhumane when it comes to pain relief, but I guess their prejudices and opiophobia prevail over their duty to minimize a patient's suffering.

Thanks for letting me know about the Stadol and the PDR, too. I don't actually have kidney disease, just stones, but would Stadol reverse the effects of the morphine (which I take twice daily), and cause symptoms similar to morphine withdrawal? As I'm on various opioid analgesics at present time (but not sure if I'm physically dependent on them), would Stadol act as an opioid antagonist?

 
Old 06-20-2010, 03:18 AM   #40
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerluver View Post
Hey Eden, oh man you ahouldn't have brought that up! I'm gonna get on my soap box but this topic really bothers me. Normally I do not wish bad things for people, but like you have been treated so badly that I do wish they could experience some of these things we go through so they can have some kind of idea.

In addition, all docs should have to experience some of the tests and procedures they prescribe. That movie The Doctor did this after the doc had cancer, he made his fellows experience what it is like to be a patient. They are truly clueless and the only way is for them to experience some of the things we go through. I know why they don't, but I would think it would make them better docs and you would think somewhere they would implement that as part of the training. That they don't speaks volumes!

Here's to staying out of the ER!
Yeah, that's definitely for sure! Like you, I normally wouldn't wish kidney stones on ANYONE, but it's so irritating when someone who has never had them tells you that there is no way that you could possibly need a stronger pankiller, or even that you're in pain. I definitely agree that docs should be required to undergo some sort of empathy development training, as so many lack the ability to understand what their patients are going through.

Hopefully, we can both stay out of the ER for a LONG time, and I hope your next lithotripsy is less painful I'm possibly getting one if my big stone won't pass in the next 2 weeks, and I'm NOT looking forward to it.

 
Old 06-20-2010, 09:53 AM   #41
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

It's good you are being cared for by some more understanding Dr.'s who specialize in Pain mgmnt. It just gets old hearing from my patients and other clients about Physicians denying Pain Meds to folks when they are indicated. This makes no sense in the terms of a Dr.'s sworn duty to his patient. Reg: jonnstar- Didn't know that about Stadol Inhalers, don't see them used a whole lot anymore, mostly in Migraine patients, it seems. Thanks. jackbeanstalk

 
Old 06-25-2010, 11:38 AM   #42
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

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I definitely agree that docs should be required to undergo some sort of empathy development training, as so many lack the ability to understand what their patients are going through.
Once I was in the ER with God knows how many stones and the doc comes in and makes a face as I am puking into one of those plastic things and he has the balls to say to me "why was I there?" Ahh for like your strongest pain meds you idiot! Just one little stone, I wished he could have just one with nice sharp points!!!LOL

 
Old 06-25-2010, 11:51 AM   #43
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

One of my spine surgeons, years ago, broke his collarbone. When I saw him a few weeks later he said "you have no idea how much this hurts". All I could do is laugh and I told him next he should try spine surgery!
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:01 PM   #44
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

Love it!!!

 
Old 06-27-2010, 04:42 PM   #45
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Re: Pain Management for Chronic Kidney Stones? Need Advice Please!

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Originally Posted by Jackbeanstalk View Post
It's good you are being cared for by some more understanding Dr.'s who specialize in Pain mgmnt. It just gets old hearing from my patients and other clients about Physicians denying Pain Meds to folks when they are indicated. This makes no sense in the terms of a Dr.'s sworn duty to his patient. Reg: jonnstar- Didn't know that about Stadol Inhalers, don't see them used a whole lot anymore, mostly in Migraine patients, it seems. Thanks. jackbeanstalk
Thanks so much for your understanding, Jackbeanstalk. It is wonderful to know that there are some doctors out there that can empathize with their patients' pain, and hopefully there are more physicians out there who share your beliefs.

 
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