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Old 06-16-2004, 10:20 AM   #1
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HeyThere HB User
New opinions on schooling accelerated child

1. Late b-day. middle of school yr.
2. 2 mos. ago reads on own after 3 lessons of listen follow repeat method.
3. will be 4 and a half next week.
4. tested 3 and a half months ago for gifted got in on all tests given hour and a half.
5. false pretenses for testing her said she was 4 months older.
6. no provisions in district for early entry into kinder just first-even if you offer to pay tuition. kinder is new to state and not mandatory but most children go now to district kinder at no cost.
7. The clincher-Gifted Kinder is rare in State and First grade Gifted is fed only through gifted kinder. So if I do not lie about the 4 mos. there will not be a place for her in Gifted until 2nd grade-so meanwhile if that happens the ball will have been dropped.
8. Gifted Only is hard to get into.
9. If I don't have her go to the Gifted Only Ciriculum then she will be a wiggle worm probably diagnosed w/ add because she finishes her work early and her need for more expounded learning teaching will not be met with regular children being the majority.
10. I've tried every way to do this without lying. State/Federal/Districts/ it is all about the bucks but they won't accept a cent from citizens because there are no district provisions for such a case for kinder gifted.
11. On monday I saw the state ciriculum for first grade testing and she is beyond all that except for the history part and double digit subtracting.
12. I have lost my degree from inactivity in my industry and weight gain and even If I were to put her in school I wouldn't be able to work in my industry because of the hours. but I could go back to school and get a supplementry degree in teaching. I am quite a good teacher it runs in the family for 3 generations.
13. nature and nurture what a world this would be if everyone didn't drop the ball.
14. So, taking this all this in and then take yourself outside yourself into my shoes what would you do?
15. I know it will come out eventually like in the enrollment process for middle school but that can be dealt with at that time.

16. She towers over the kids in her tumbling class they are all 3-4 and is just even ballet classes 5 yrs.
17. I don't want to retard her learning growth that is not in her best interest. The state law last session made education bill pass stating the schools must meet a childs educational needs.

18. The school district schools from ages 6-21 is that ridiculous or what. A particular high school has people that already have a high school education in their motherland country but they think American Highschool gives them an advantage to getting scholarships into colleges and universities and there is no one particular country they are coming from all points on the earth. The most critical age span for learning is 2-6 so what is the deal why is this so backwards. Why are we paying taxes for schooling adults that already have an education. Mixing adults with non adults that is a danger, not mixing children with children within a few months of eachother.

A rock in a hard place.

Last edited by HeyThere; 06-16-2004 at 10:46 AM.

 
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Old 06-17-2004, 03:48 AM   #2
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Have you looked into preschools, you may be able to find one for children like your daughters (i know there used to be one around here for children who were late starters). As far as her getting bored etc in school, just work closely with the school, make sure they are fully aware of her abilities, and you can get workbooks, computer games etc to help her as much as you can at home. But just remember, even though she's bright she should still be treated as a 4 year old and not forced to go farther than she wants, when she gets to an age where she can have the option to go into classes for gifted children let her be a part of the decision, she may be happy in a regular class. Also, with the lying, don't you need to have her birth certificate or some sort of proof of age, here they will not let your child start school without a birth certificate, i wouldn't lie to get her in, it's not worth it. If your willing to pay find her a good preschool and enroll her in that. I know here in canada some provinces test children at 3-4 to see if they are ready for school, where i am at they do not, the cut off date for starting school is they have to be 5 by oct 1st, my daughter missed out on last year and went to preschool, she will be almost a year older than a lot of kids in her class, i believe she would have been ready last year but they don't test.

 
Old 06-17-2004, 05:33 AM   #3
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Here is my suggestion i would take your time at putting her in school when it comes time wether it's her age or whatever, then she will be ready.....I would look more into a preschools like mandyanne26 mention....Then it's more of a social and playtime with other children....That could get her ready for school for next year....My oldest son i put in school since he was 3 but really almost four....Now in fourth, fifth and sixth grade he WAS in accelerated math, straight A student.....He is now just finishing grade six and not doing so well....I think it just to much for him....Think that the teachers, my husband and i expect to much from him......Pushing them to an accelerated class i have learn is just to stressful on kids.....It's more pressure and of course more work.....I was so heart broken when i found this out but i think this is some of my fault....If i would be able to do it over again i would never start him off to early and never put him in accelerated anything....My niece has just started off in accelerated math as well and my in laws asked my opinion and i gave it to them....She did try it for the first year and now she is back to basic classes....I know of parents that ground their kids if they don't get good grades in these accelerated classes.....Could you imagine how that child feels.....It's so hard to make the right decision, we all want whats best for out children but we are not all perfected.....
As for the add i have a nephew with this and there is so much more than just handing your work in early....He doesn't do his work because he can't concentrate.......He fidgets none stop and is just all over the place in class....There is a long list of different things he does...
You said that you wanted to return to school, is there a childcare in the school you attend???I know the college that my friend goes to has one and is kind of like a preschool.....I would definitley finish your schooling....Just thinking about that myself.....
Our school district starts off from ages 5 to 18....I know that when my husband was 19 and needed only one credit for english to get his high school diploma..... He called the school to take up the credit that he needed and they told him he was to old, at the age of 19....He had to go to a local college and take a GED test....Now my husband is extremely smart he was in the Who's Who's Book, clubs, rewards, grades were A's and B's....Also at the time he was taking classes at another college for law...He wasn't very happy with that school, either was his parents....

 
Old 06-17-2004, 07:22 AM   #4
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

I was able to start school when i was 3 years old (turning 4 in november) so the schools around me are age 3-20.

Also, My nephew is in jk/sk, it is in his daycare, so next year, i believe he is going to grade 1. Also his school goes thru the summer, cuz it is school/daycare. he can be there form 700am-6pm, he is usually there from about 730-930am, and leaves about 4:45pm

he'll have better social skills, etc, because pf this school. although next year we're not sure what school he should go to, we have 2 around us. lol
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Old 06-18-2004, 02:43 PM   #5
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Honestly, I would just be honest. I would homeschool her for now and just expand on what she already knows. She sounds like a very smart little girl!! I would enroll her in kindergarten in the fall of next year with a request to have her tested again. According to how she tests, that will decide placement. Occasionally, children are advanced enough to be moved up a grade regardless of age. If she is not moved up a grade, she might qualify for the gifted kindergarten. Good luck
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Old 07-12-2004, 05:03 AM   #6
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Have similar situation. My daughter is advanced and was ready for K-G last year at least academically. I had planned on sending her to a private school which would take a younger child. The following year I would have put her into public school but in the 1st grade. Unfortunately, my daughter also has OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder) so she had to develop tools to deal with that first so we sent her to half-day Preschool. Whole day K-G would have been too much for her. Now she will be going to K-G in the Fall and I have informed them that she is really bright. They are planning on placing her with a K-G teacher that is good with bright children but there is no actual gifted program until 4th grade. They do have ways of informally dealing with gifted children and time will tell if it works.
Terry

 
Old 07-12-2004, 07:49 AM   #7
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

My son didnt start school until he was suppose in k, but when he got in the school did pull the behavior stuff. He is a year younger then most kids in his class cause his birthday falls in august. They kept telling us his behavior was because of that. Then by the time he got into second grade they started on add but it was becoming obvious to me that he needed more then he was getting in the classroom. The school wouldnt test him without him being on add meds. (first child playing game of trail and error i know now they can legally do this) When they finally gave him the gifted test he did exceptionally well on it. The gifted program stunk at this school though and the teacher although i was repeatedly told could and would accelerate his work in the classroom to meet his needs it never happened. Now luckly for us we are dealing with different school and things are tons better. At the end of third grade he was nationally in the top 10 percent of everything on sats. The also tested him for acceletrated classes and found out that he was two grade level ahead in reading and one in math. He will be sujbect accelerated next year. I do think it is important to see what the kids thinks of being accelerated. He thought it would be good to move up in math but doesnt care for reading and was not happy considering it. So he will be moved for math and stay put for reading. I think the point is to stay on the ball fight for what they need but as said before you dont want to end up pushing them harder then they can handle cause then school and learning is no longer fun.

maze

 
Old 07-12-2004, 10:15 PM   #8
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Hi,
My opinion is going to be a little different from most of the others here. I do understand your need for her to be challenged and it is indeed a valid concern. However maturity needs to be taken into consideration as well as academic levels and that is the main reason for the birthdate requirements in schools. A child can have an I.Q. of 200 and still not be ready for school. I do agree that you should look into preschool for her at this point, keeping in mind that no matter what you do, you will have to prove her age by turning in a birth certificate when she enters school. However I would still be careful to choose a developmentally appropriate preschool. By this I mean one that focuses on whole child development. There should be little or no use of worksheets and lots of opportunity for hands on learning and other activities which promote learning. There should be LOTS of opportunity of various types of play. Research has actually proven that childen in kindergarten who have the best social dramatic (house, doctor, store, etc.) play skills have the highest test scores in reading and language at the fourth grade levels and children who have the best social constructive (blocks, legos, cubes, etc.) play skills tend to have the highest test scores in math and science at the same level. If a child is reading he should be encouarged to continue reading, writing, etc., but during most of the school day this should be a choice. There should be lots of opportunities also for group interaction. When your child is old enough for kindergarten look for a program that has lots of centers and other activities for them to engage in. There should be blocks, lots of good children's books, puzzles, art materials, a dramatic play center (at least one) of some kind, etc. No five year old who has these types of activities available sould be bored. I think we as adults tend to think of these types of things as just play and not learning, but its actually the way children under the age of about eight learn best. Even much older children tend to learn more and retain more when they are able to engage in hands on activities for most of their learning. If you are not going to do preschool, check into other opportunities for your child to continue to develop learning and creativity (which is strongly related to I.Q.) such as library story times, gymboree, kindermusik, art camps, etc.
Nancy

 
Old 07-13-2004, 05:05 AM   #9
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Nancy,
I agree with you totally. Kindergarten was not the problem year for my bright older child because there was soooo much creative play. She was not bored. She just took the play to her own level of creativity/imagination. 1st and 2nd grade involved more sitting/writing time and that is when she started to get fidgety. The ADHD idea was subtly introduced to us as parents but the teacher then discovered that my child acted more "normal" if she could work at her own level (especially in reading.) I'm almost glad that she got antsy and a little disruptive (dropping her things, falling out of her chair) because otherwise she could have been easily overlooked.

Kindergarten also helped my gifted child because she lagged socially. This is often the case with bright kids. In our case, our daughter is overly sensitive and somewhat controlling. She had to learn to try to integrate the play ideas of other children into group play even if their ideas seemed boring. This will always be tough for her but it is improving. Sometimes she will chose to play alone when she is bored with a group activity. Sometimes other kids look to her for "new" ideas.

My second child is even more bright than my older child and I am not particularly worried about K-G. After that, the boredom could be a problem.

Terry

 
Old 07-20-2004, 09:58 PM   #10
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HeyThere HB User
Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

I want to Thank You All for your wisdom and insight.

We decided to turned down the Vanguard opportunity on the basis of all the collective wisdom from y'all and the other factor of a year and a half age difference amongst others that are like her. It made me ill as the words came out of my mouth to tell the coordinator. I have been eating like crazy for the past month ahhhhhhhh.

We are going to do both; test again with the true age and test out of K through the district.

We are going to do more expounded learning instead of going up more levels because then she'll just get bored. She is doing the gymnastics, swim, ballet, Spanish classes and will take French and Chinese in the Fall and etc.

It is better to have raised a well rounded person that is truly enriched and to inspire a thirst/quest for knowledge rather than have raised a child to grow bored of those teaching what one already knows and becoming a slacker or adhd label.

So don't bend the truth just change the laws through bombarding petitions to your state reps.

 
Old 07-21-2004, 07:19 AM   #11
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Just want to add a little. It sounds as if your daughters days are filled with structured activity and classes. I don't know what a typical day for your daughter includes, but it sounds as if she has a very scheduled and demanding life for a little girl. You've got her life jam packed...my question is how much time does she have to be a little girl? she has her whole life to learn languages, take classes, right now the focus should be on being a 4 year old. I realize that you want her full potential reached, but it seems as if you are pushing her to be something you want her to be, and she's not old enough to say no i don't want to do that, she wants to make mommy and daddy happy. It's great that you are so concerend with her quenching her thirst for knowledge, but please don't get into the schedule trap....not everything in her life needs to be about learning something...make sure you are following her ques...don't giver her more than she can handle...she's only 4 and you've got her learning 3 languages starting this fall? that's too much in my opinion, gifted child or not.
You may not agree with me, but it seems as if your pushing your daughter into what you want her to be...she has her whole life to learn, she only has a limited amount of time left to be a carefree little girl. Just because a child is gifted doesn't mean you stick them into every class available to their age level.

 
Old 07-21-2004, 01:07 PM   #12
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

HeyThere,
Two 4 year old twins tried to get into my daughter's art camp this summer. The kids were found out on the first day because there behavior was not quite as was expected in Dance class. It was traumatic for the kids and embarrassing for the parents.

Im going to give a little support for you here. I can't stand parents that drag their kids around town tired and unfed trying to get their kids signed up for every class they can manage. You've probably seen these parents. They bribe the kids at age 3 and 4 to finish ballet classes that they hate, the kids don't look like they are having fun etc.... On the other hand, some of these gifted kids are absolutely insatiable. The smarter they are the worse it gets. If they want to learn Spanish, they pick up the English/Spanish Dictionary and pester their parents to help them learn to the point that the parent feels like a slave. These kids often thrive on enrichment classes and it gives the parents a break. My kids are gifted but not extremely gifted so we tend to go through periods where they just crave new knowledge but then at other times they just act like normal kids. I go with it. This summer has been very busy with structure because they are asking for it. I'm going to plan some playdates to try to off-set their enthusiasm for knowledge but for now I'm just letting them enjoy using their brains and bodies as THEY WANT. I do, however, have concerns that gifted kids can sometimes lack in the basics of socialization so in a couple weeks I'm going to get the playdates going.

Your daughter is probably even brighter than my kids but I understand enough to know that it isn't always the parents that are pushing the schedule and some kids thrive on it. I no longer pass judgment too easily on parents that seem to over-schedule or under-schedule their kids. All kids are different and have different requirements. There is a message board for parents of profoundly gifted children that I frequent sometimes (but can't post here) and the parents feel very isolated because other parents often think that they are "hot-housing" there kids. It is terribly uncomfortable for these parents endure the public ridicule so they find others like themselves online that can relate. These parents can't even send their kids to public school because they are extremely bright and actually entering college often at 10 years of age. I thank God that my kids aren't that smart. No one understands what these families go through.

Hope this helps. I'm so glad that you didn't lie about your child's age. I'm sure that it would come back to haunt you and your child.

Terry

 
Old 07-22-2004, 11:23 PM   #13
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Terry,Thank you for your insight and info.

Nobody pushes anyone. She is asked. She is always eager to do things. She is a 110% HAM. No burn out here. So far structured environment max per week is 2 and a half hours. Fall same thing. Everyone tells me if you are going to homeschool her then you are going to have to introduce socialization through outside classes/enrichmeant activites so she doesn't clam up and introvert when she does enter the first grade ;and also to follow others instructions.

Laid back learning is what we do. It is fun all the time. Saying it with a smile.


She is not learning how to congugate verbs just learning the equivallancy of what she concurrentlly knows in English. In Switzerland all kids schooled must be fluent in 3 languages; In Mexico English is a mandatory course at every level primary-college; In Canada French and English; In Vietnam French and Vietnamese; In parts of Africa French English and Africaans; We live in the 4th lagest city in the USA an international city. If a child is not taught the beginings of languages before 5, yes five then, it has been said to be a lost cause (mimic ability is lost and the file system of the brain is set). There are very few people who can master languages at a later time.
Unfortunately the Spanish is not instruction it is a freeplay with a bilingual person who sings one 2 minute song and charges 20 dollars for the 45 min. next time I am asking for a syllabus. LOL.


I have not been fired by my boss yet. The boss doesn't have a temper. My boss never cries or whines (not even when an infant) because I anticipate her every need. We can read eachother across the room.
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Last edited by HeyThere; 07-22-2004 at 11:58 PM.

 
Old 07-23-2004, 08:08 AM   #14
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

I hope that I haven't offended you in any way. I really think that there are some kids that thrive on stimulation and I suspect that this is situation. She is so bright that you probably get a lot of info. in her brain in a short period. I'm also with you on the foreign language. In the USA we tend to expect everyone to learn our language and then we don't teach our children other languages until they are too old. We have neglected the languages unfortunately with my 8 year old but maybe next summer. Better late than never. In your opinion which foreign language is the most important to learn? I use to think Spanish but I know many profoundly gifted children are learning Japanese.
Terry

Last edited by TerryB; 07-23-2004 at 08:47 AM.

 
Old 07-26-2004, 08:20 AM   #15
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Re: New opinions on schooling accelerated child

Hello, I'm glad you came up with a solution both you and your daughter will be happy with. We had the same problem here with our public schools and their cut-off ages. They have early cut-offs for both kindergarten and 1st grade, because they have too many students. We wound up sending our son to a private school and are happy we did. He's 5 and will be in 1st grade this year. He is really good at "blending in," with the exception of his artwork. He loves to draw comic book/cartoon figures and draws them like a 16 year old. We suppliment his schooling at home to keep him from getting bored; eventhough, the private school is 1-2 years ahead of the public school. I feel that a lot of people know about the average child, but not too many know about the gifted child. Gifted children are so different from the norm. They really do march to a different drummer.
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