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Old 08-01-2004, 03:10 PM   #1
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DesertSkies03 HB User
Unhappy Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

I am really having a very hard time with my 5 yr. old daughter. She will not listen for anything and throws horrible tantrums when she doesn't get her own way. For instance, I also have a 14 month old whom I would like to put on the floor at times so that she can play and learn how to walk but whenever I try to do this my 5 yr. starts screaming bloody murder and will keep on until I pick the baby up off the floor. I tried to ignore her one time and she screamed for about a half an hour and I just couldn't take it anymore so I had to take the baby off the floor. I have no idea what to do in this situation and it is really making me mad because I feel like I have no control over this and I can't even put my other daughter on ther floor to play. I can't keep letting the 5 yr. old scream her head off, and I do mean SCREAM, because we live in an apartment and I also don't think it is good for the baby to hear all that screaming. Please, if anyone has any advice on this matter I would really, really appreciate it! Thanks!
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:32 PM   #2
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

Send her into her room and let her scream bloody murder if she needs to, dont let her out until she stops. She wont do it too often if she knows you mean business. If the neighbors pound on the door to see if you are killing the child, invite them in to see what it is about. Apartment living is a killer on child rearing.

 
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:50 PM   #3
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

Quote:
Originally Posted by foofoo65
Send her into her room and let her scream bloody murder if she needs to, dont let her out until she stops. She wont do it too often if she knows you mean business. If the neighbors pound on the door to see if you are killing the child, invite them in to see what it is about. Apartment living is a killer on child rearing.
Thank you, that is a very good idea but the thing is is that she would not stay in her room. There is no lock on the door so she could just come right out. She doesn't listen so staying there is something she definitely won't do. I was thinking that I could just let the other tenants know what is going on so they don't freak out and call the cops or something. It's not an apartment building, it's a two flat but we have the whole first floor and then there are two apartments above us (one in front and one in back), then there are people who live in an attic type apartment so it would probably just be better if I let them know ahead of time. My nerves are totally shot from this whole ordeal.
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Old 08-01-2004, 04:39 PM   #4
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

one suggestion..go out and get one of those kid proof door handle things, put it on the INSIDE of her door during the day so she cant get out until you let her out, Im not sure, she might be able to figure it out pretty quick though

Or, the good old fashion way like my parents did, tie a thick string or something, to her door handle...and tie it to the next closest door handle...and tie it TIGHT so theres no slack, she cant open it until you take the string off...she might be able to peak her arm out and scream "I CAN STILL GET OUT!!" like I did ( ) but thats it...and tell her the longer she screams, the longer she stays in the AFTER she screams....as many minutes as she screams, she spends as quiet time too. She wont scream for long, and she wont do it too often anymore.

 
Old 08-01-2004, 06:31 PM   #5
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

I was thinking that you should let the neighbors know ahead of time also. My sister had the same problem. She lived in apartments all of her sons life, he threw such tantrums when he didnt get his way that he always got his way, even after she said no a million times. NO has no meaning for him. In stores it was the same way, resturaunts... My mother gave into him in stores all of the time because of this when he was little, now she refuses to go into public with him at all. He is now twelve and still has these tantrums constantly, he acts 3 he is on all kinds of drugs, but those arent the problem, he listens to others but not her. No means no in the rest of the houses he is in. He is a very unhappy child. What child really wants the responsibilities of his own life? He knows he cant make these decisions. He now throws tantrums because he wants things, gets them, then throws tantrums because he doesnt want them. People cant stand to be around this kid, he says and does what he wants and its ok, because his mother still see's him as 3-5 yr old. I am very afraid for this child. I know yours isnt this bad. She sounds just a bit jealous of the baby, but nip it in the bud before its too late. Also there are 2 books by James dobson that were a great help to me while raising my 2, though now I wish he would come out with some to help me with teenagers. His books are: The Strong Willed Child, and Dare To Discipline.

 
Old 08-01-2004, 08:41 PM   #6
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

Desert,
What does the 5 year old say is her reason for screaming when the little one is on the floor?
Terry

 
Old 08-01-2004, 10:28 PM   #7
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edaisy80 HB User
Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

I've had this problem with my son a little. I still do ocassionally. They think if they set there long enough screaming they will get their way. Another poster suggested putting the little plastic door knob cover on the inside of your daughters door since she won't stay. I've done this one before. It does work. I have my kids about 2-3 minutes and if they don't stop they can go to their room. Their only hurting themselves by doing all this screaming. I also live in an apartment. So I know how you feel about what other people will think. I had to let my neighbors know that if they heard my son screaming it was because he was in his room. They've even came down to my house and heard him and were like "wow how can you stand it?" I just told then after a while you kinda just learn to ignore it. Maybe your 5 year old is jealous of the baby. Have you always lived in the same apartment? Maybe she feels as though her space is being invaded. My son doesn't like his little sister to play with his toys. OK Thats fine but the first time he walks over to pick up her toys I remind him that he doesn't want her to play with his toys so don't play with hers. Also maybe you could see if your daughter would like to help with the baby. Say "her name" would you mind going to get me the babies blanket so she can sit on it. Ask her to join the 2 of you. Then sit down on the floor on the blanket with the baby and play for a few minutes. If your oldest daughter starts screaming then ignore her for about 2 minutes. If she doesn't stop. Take her to her room and tell her when she can be a big girl she may come out. After she stops crying walk in to her room and say "hey would you like to sit on the blanket and play with the baby?" if she says no then say " OK you may come out of the room now and do a puzzle, color, or watch a favorite t.v. program while mom plays with the baby for a few minutes." Keep asking her if she wants to help with the baby everyday. Let her help you feed her. I think she's just jealous. Buy them a toy that they can play together. Oviously let the big sister be just that the big sister. I boughy my kids a you that had ABC and it made noise. My daughter was 1 my son was almost 5. At first he got mad when she youched it but I had to let him know it was both of theirs noy just his and touching doesn't hurt. I also bought my daughter a Laep Frog karoke machine for Christmas last year. They now take turns holding it while their singing. She's will throw tantrums just because she's a kid but maybe they won't be so many if you try some of the suggestions listed by myself and other posters. Your the only one who has to deal with her so you'll know which ones work best for her. Good luck.

P.S. I know its really hard to space your time out between to kids one is a baby and another who is five. But at least for 15 minutes a day sit down with the oldest and do a little activity with her. Like coloring or drawing. Maybe do a puzzle or read a book. Give her a few choices to choose from. I let my oldest son who is 9 stay up 30 minutes later then the other 2 kids. He likes to just sit and cuddle on the couch. My daughter and I usually color for about 15 minutes everyday or read a book (sometimes we even turn on the radio and dance together) She's 2 1/2. And my 6 year old son and I usually draw pictures on a magna doodle or a not pad. He tells me what he wants me to draw and I draw it. And then I will tell him what I want him to draw for me. If my husband is home before dark. My oldest son will take walks with me. I will take my youngest to the park. And I will play in the sand box with my little girl. My husband watches the other 2 so that I can give them this time outside with just mom. My husband works alot of hours.( usually from 4:30 a.m. until about 8:30p.m.) He's a drill sgt in the army. So its a big thing for the kids to just go walking or to the park with just mommy and no one else.

Last edited by edaisy80; 08-01-2004 at 10:43 PM. Reason: mistakes

 
Old 08-02-2004, 08:01 AM   #8
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

I too will send my daughters to their rooms if they are crying hysterically. I really don't call it time-out. I just acknowledge that she is upset about something and it is OK to cry but she needs to do it away from the rest of the family because it hurts our ears and distracts us from doing the things that we need to do. I tell her that she can come out after she is calm and not crying anymore. It is important to express emotion but not to go on and on and interfere with the rights of the other family members.

Terry

 
Old 08-02-2004, 01:10 PM   #9
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DesertSkies03 HB User
Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

Quote:
Originally Posted by edaisy80
I've had this problem with my son a little. I still do ocassionally. They think if they set there long enough screaming they will get their way. Another poster suggested putting the little plastic door knob cover on the inside of your daughters door since she won't stay. I've done this one before. It does work. I have my kids about 2-3 minutes and if they don't stop they can go to their room. Their only hurting themselves by doing all this screaming. I also live in an apartment. So I know how you feel about what other people will think. I had to let my neighbors know that if they heard my son screaming it was because he was in his room. They've even came down to my house and heard him and were like "wow how can you stand it?" I just told then after a while you kinda just learn to ignore it. Maybe your 5 year old is jealous of the baby. Have you always lived in the same apartment? Maybe she feels as though her space is being invaded. My son doesn't like his little sister to play with his toys. OK Thats fine but the first time he walks over to pick up her toys I remind him that he doesn't want her to play with his toys so don't play with hers. Also maybe you could see if your daughter would like to help with the baby. Say "her name" would you mind going to get me the babies blanket so she can sit on it. Ask her to join the 2 of you. Then sit down on the floor on the blanket with the baby and play for a few minutes. If your oldest daughter starts screaming then ignore her for about 2 minutes. If she doesn't stop. Take her to her room and tell her when she can be a big girl she may come out. After she stops crying walk in to her room and say "hey would you like to sit on the blanket and play with the baby?" if she says no then say " OK you may come out of the room now and do a puzzle, color, or watch a favorite t.v. program while mom plays with the baby for a few minutes." Keep asking her if she wants to help with the baby everyday. Let her help you feed her. I think she's just jealous. Buy them a toy that they can play together. Oviously let the big sister be just that the big sister. I boughy my kids a you that had ABC and it made noise. My daughter was 1 my son was almost 5. At first he got mad when she youched it but I had to let him know it was both of theirs noy just his and touching doesn't hurt. I also bought my daughter a Laep Frog karoke machine for Christmas last year. They now take turns holding it while their singing. She's will throw tantrums just because she's a kid but maybe they won't be so many if you try some of the suggestions listed by myself and other posters. Your the only one who has to deal with her so you'll know which ones work best for her. Good luck.

P.S. I know its really hard to space your time out between to kids one is a baby and another who is five. But at least for 15 minutes a day sit down with the oldest and do a little activity with her. Like coloring or drawing. Maybe do a puzzle or read a book. Give her a few choices to choose from. I let my oldest son who is 9 stay up 30 minutes later then the other 2 kids. He likes to just sit and cuddle on the couch. My daughter and I usually color for about 15 minutes everyday or read a book (sometimes we even turn on the radio and dance together) She's 2 1/2. And my 6 year old son and I usually draw pictures on a magna doodle or a not pad. He tells me what he wants me to draw and I draw it. And then I will tell him what I want him to draw for me. If my husband is home before dark. My oldest son will take walks with me. I will take my youngest to the park. And I will play in the sand box with my little girl. My husband watches the other 2 so that I can give them this time outside with just mom. My husband works alot of hours.( usually from 4:30 a.m. until about 8:30p.m.) He's a drill sgt in the army. So its a big thing for the kids to just go walking or to the park with just mommy and no one else.
I want to thank all of you for the suggestions. It's such a tough situation to deal with. First, to TerryB's question, I've asked my 5 yr. old many times why she screams and doesn't want the baby on the floor but she all she said is that she doesn't like her on the floor, that's it. I can't get any other explanation. I assume that she is afraid of the baby invading her space which I don't know how she is going to react when the new baby get's here cause I am a little over 4 months pregnant! lol Anyhow, I have asked her to help me with the baby many, many times and she has no problem with that whatsoever. Once in awhile I will catch her playing with the baby while the baby is in the playpen. She'll hand her toys or play peek-a-boo or something like that but she also can antagonize the baby very badly. She'll touch her or something and if the baby doesn't want to be touched at that time she will start fussing. Well my 5 yr. old will keep doing it on purpose till the baby get's really frustrated and ends up crying. My husband and I tell her to stop that and to be nice to the baby but she does not listen at all. She just keeps on doing whatever it is that she is doing. I'm sure you can imagine how frustrating this is for me. Like I said before, as soon as I try to put the baby on the floor that's when the screaming starts. I've asked my 5 yr. old many times if she would play with the baby or me and the baby but she won't anymore. It's weird because she never had a problem with this before when the baby was smaller. My husband and I keep trying to explain to her that the baby needs to be on the floor just like her so that she can play and learn how to walk but it doesn't matter to her. I am going to keep trying different things to see what works the best. I've been putting the baby on the floor in the morning the past couple of times while my 5 yr. old is still asleep lol. But still, she needs to learn that I am the mommy and she cannot control me. I also put the baby on the floor if my 5 yr. old goes to the store with her dad or if he takes her outside to play. All I can say is I have one strong willed child on my hands LOL. (waiting for my hair to turn grey LOL).
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Last edited by DesertSkies03; 08-02-2004 at 01:11 PM.

 
Old 08-02-2004, 02:01 PM   #10
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Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

After reading that, I say to heck with the neighbors. Your child's well-being is more important. You can briefly explain to them that she is "very emotional" or "high-spirited" and reasonable people will understand. If you don't try to work on this issue she will continue to have tantrums as she gets older and no one will be very understanding at that point. You will be blamed as a bad parent or your daughter will be considered psychotic. People can be mean even without a cause. Do what you need to do. Your daughter has to be your first prioritly. My 5 year old that has OCD is also a little oppositional and her psychologist says to not give into it or I'll have a monster for a teenager and she will not be able to fix things then. I don't argue with her any longer. Only a quick explanation is given. "I'm the boss." "It's my way or time-out." "You wear appropriate shoes or you are not going, it's your choice." "You throw a fit in the store, then you will not go again until you are old enough to control yourself." "If you don't pack up to leave when I tell you, I won't feel like bringing you again for a long time because it is too aggravating for me." By-the-way, she is a doll for others so I assume that she tests things out on me first.

Having 2 daughters, I am always worried about sibling rivalry. I plan for the older child to be out of the house with kids her own age often. These outside activities have improved the older one's self-esteem. Also, when she comes back she seems to play better with her sibling. If you are home-schooling you really need to get her out with other children anyway. Hey, maybe she'll decide to ditch the diapers. Peer-pressure works great for that. Imagine a diaper under a leotard for example.

We also have zero tolerance for hitting, kicking, or basically not keeping your hands to yourself. I might sound mean but I have never spanked my kids. We have tight control though and no multiple chances. When we are in public, I am proud of them. Some things I learned from books, respected friends and the psychologist.

I really feel for you. You have a tough nut to crack but you probably can learn ways to redirect this ship. I know that you are not ready to seek help but it can sure get you going on the right path fast. People with easy kids just don't understand how lucky they have it. The kids thrive in spite of marginal parenting. Exceptional kids require exceptional parenting.

Terry
2 daughters, 5 and 8

 
Old 08-03-2004, 06:13 AM   #11
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edaisy80 HB User
Re: Horrible problem with 5 yr. old....

Desert,
Your really going to have your hands full in another 5 months. I can see why its so overwhelming for you. For one being pregnant really takes a toll. Are you going to home school your oldest daughter? If so maybe you could find a play group for her so she can see how other kids her own age act. My son is a little monster (lol) just a figure of speach. But seriously he throws tantrums and screams when hes at home. But he can go to school and everyone tell me how great he his behavior has been. Its only been like that for the past 8 months. At his other school I was getting phone calls at least once a week asking me to come get him. If it wasn't a phone call I was getting a letter (every day) from his speech teacher or regular teacher telling me how defiant Caleb was. He has an older brother but of course his brother was "too big" to play with him. This year he's had a really great teacher. He does eveything she tells him to do. Sometimes he might start to say BUT and she's like Cab (that's her name for him) and he says "OK Wilson" and does what she tells him too. Its really frustrating at times. BUt if there a subsitute teacher you better forget it because Caleb will not listen to her. One subsitute actually had to call me one day because Caleb was just being so rotten at school. Everytime she told him to do something he said "NO!" She said Caleb would you like to go outside "No was his responce." Caleb its time to go in "no again". So after going through this until like 1:30 in the afternoon she took his Hulk action figure from him. Of course he was mad. She told him "Caleb Hulk has to go to time out until the both of you are doing what is told". (Caleb likes to talk for his action figures). She took hulk away and Caleb told her "I'm going to tell my mommy on you." She told him ok go ahead. She called me and let me know what was going on. (Caleb doen't stay mad for long so I told her he probably wouldn't even mention it when he got home.) Sure enough not one word about it. Anyway! I think that since your pregnant and dad doesn't mind taking your oldest daughter for a while maybe you should see if dad will watch the baby too so you can get away for a while. Even if its only for a hours so you can go to a resturant and get a meal and sit by yourself or call a friend to meet you. If you don't your going to get overstressed and its not good for you or the kids. I was lucky that Caleb went to school for 3 hours a day monday-friday when I was pregnant with my daughter. I used this time to go grocery shopping, my doctor appointments (I let them know that either I come in the morning or I was bringing my son they scheduled morning appointments), me and my best friend would go to lunch at least once a week. Or best of all I would catch a nap. You really need sometime to yourself right now. If husband is home let him know ok on Wednesday or (whatever) day of the week it will be your night to feed the girls so I can take a walk or whatevr you want to do for an hour. Don't feel bad because he worked all day he helped to make your children too. My kids are 9,6, and 2 1/2. I don't always get a day for myself like I used to because of husbands hours but soon the oldest will be back in school and my daughter will start taking naps again. I will be able to read a book or talk to a friend while she's still sleeping. My husband and I decided when Caleb was almost 2 that I would stay at home with the kids instead of working until he went to school. He was going to a baby sitters and we just thought at that time maybe he wasn't getting the right attention he needed therefore that's why he wasn't acting his age. Well we were wrong. We found out about a year later after going to doctor after doctor trying to get thing done that he has a learning disability. Well we kinda slipped up and I got pregnant with my daughter a couple of years earlier then planned. So now I'm home with them until she starts Kindergarden. I don't regret it at all. With my oldest so I missed alot because I was going to school. With Caleb I missed alot because I had to work. (my oldest 2 boys are from a previous relationship) My husband and I have been together since Caleb was 8 months old. I believe the hardest job you will ever have is being a parent. I'm thankful that I got to see everything my daughter has done. I've been there for her first words and first steps. Somethin I missed with the oldest two. My step-dad tells me just to take it one day at a time and while I'm taking care of the kids to make sure to take care of myself. Once your oldest daughter makes friends she will more then likely just ignore the way and not even care anymore if she's on the floor or not. Do you have anyone who can help you besides for your husband? Maybe you can do a trade off with a friend. I used to do this also when I was pregant. I would watch my friends kids while her and her husband went to dinner and she would watch mine while I caught up on my sleep. My husband was deployed so he wasn't 2 much help at this time. I love him anyway LOL. We moved back closer to where my mom lives about 15 months ago. I thought wow now the kids will get to see their nana and aunts and mom will get a little break once in a while since husband works from 4:30 a.m. to about 8:30-9:00 p.m. at night 6 to 7 days a week. Big joke on my part. Husband doesn't want the kids to stay with anyone but my mom and sometimes they can go with one of my sisters. But in April my mom moved 2 1/2 hours away and my sister started working 2 jobs ao half the time especially since its summer I wind up with her son who by the way is a teenager. I'm not looking forward to those years. It like there 2 year olds all over again. Well i wish you the best of luck. Your doing a good job being a mother so you just need to remember that. And don't worry about what others think when your daughter screams their not the one who have to deal with her you are.

 
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