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Old 10-19-2004, 10:24 AM   #1
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Question My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

I have a serious issue that I need some help with. My son has had alot of problems at school over the years. I used to view some of his problems as kickbacks from the assaults he was going thru on the bus. However, the last assault by that bully was in March. My son is still having his problems. He has a problem with school work. What he doesn't get done at school, he's supposed to bring home. But it doesn't make it home. He tells me he doesn't have any, and it piles up until I talk to the teacher and he's forced to bring it home. So last week, his teacher and I decided on sending a work report home. I assumed this (work report) meant he would send a paper home to be signed each day that my son HAD work to do. When he didn't bring home the reports, I questioned him. His reply " I don't have a work report- because I got my work done in work room". I believed him, because it sounded logical. Then today, I got a call from his teacher, asking about the work report. He said my son told him his work was forgotten (at home) and his report was at home. I was baffled- because I spesifically ask my son every day about work and work report. He always tells me "none", and he never has anything in his bag (I check). He's a very smart kid. It's not that he doesn't know how to do the work- Its that he plain out refuses. And when he DOES bring any home, he fights tooth and nail to NOT have to do it. 10-20 minutes of homework turns into a 5 hour battle with him refusing, screaming at me, calling me names, telling me to shut up, breaking pencils, throwing chairs (among other things), etc..... He has been diagnosed with ADHD, and every time I've questioned his psyc doctor about this behavior, she raises his ADHD meds. I finally told her NO! at our last meeting- because the meds were NOT helping, and asked her to test for ODD-because that was what my therapist said it sounded like. She got a little paturbed with me, but said they could do some testing on him. HOWEVER, they said it could cost around $700, and they didn't know if our insurance would cover any of it. We're strapped financially, but this is actually looking more feasable than my other idea-which was sending him to Sullivan for assesment/help, to see if he was needing help and if they could figure out how to help him. And that would only help with school issues- not the temper. I just don't know what to do anymore. He has had a violent temper like this since he was a baby (used to bruise my legs up kicking me so bad that I couldn't hardly walk). I have to basically walk on egg shells around him. A couple weeks ago, he got mad and threw his shoe through his bedroom window. He's kicked through glass, beat his head into things, yanked his own teeth out, broke holes in walls-you name it. We had to take his bunk bed apart- because he was sitting on his top bunk rocking it back and forth (trying to tip it) when he got sent to time out (he was very angry). The doctors keep saying time outs work- but all they do is cost us more money and make things worse. I've tried time outs, extra work, repayment for broken things, I even made him pick pumpkins free of charge for the neighbor. I've tried rewards, punishments, taking things away-giving treats, Star charts, talking to him, letting him do his work after playing-before playing, everything I can possibly think of (and yes, I stick to each thing (consistant) to see how they affect him). I finally broke down today, and asked his math teacher to please give him detention. I don't know what else to do. I hate tarnishing his record with a detention, but he's going down a bad path, and I've run out of options. I love him so much. And I feel like an awful mother for asking the teacher to do this, but I know in my heart I did the right thing.

Any other opinions, ideas or comments are greatly appreciated.

He is also having work room today, and I'm going to his school and personally picking up his work. Also, If I can get my camcorder working, I'm going to try to secretly record him "doing his homework", so the psyc doc can get a better idea of what I'm talking about (thats not the only time he has his out bursts- but I know its going to happen when the homework is started-so I can have the camera ready. He has out bursts if I ask him to shower, change his underclothes, wash his hair, go to bed,eat supper, do homework, do chores, not to snack before a meal, sit and eat dinner, ect.)

Thanks,
ladyshy

 
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:25 AM   #2
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

Obviously you haven't been consistent with these punishments, because you keep changing your punishments,as you said. I would take EVERYTHING away from him, take away ALL free time and play time, and STOP walking on eggshells around him. YOU are the boss, not your son. Let him get detention, and don't feel bad about it. You'll feel much worse if your son grows up and doesn't get help for his obvious attitude problem.
I really hope things work out for you, but as the parent you need to step up and MAKE your son stop his behavior. Any behavior that isn't acceptable to you should not be tolerated from him, and you need to take control of the situation.

BTW, how old is your son?
Again, I hope your son stops this horrible behavior.

 
Old 10-19-2004, 02:11 PM   #3
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

I have a good friend that has ADHD and he is in the 3rd grade. She was having the exact same problems as you are and she finally was able to convince the teachers at his school that they needed to work together. She feels that the "ADHD" is used a lot by parents as an exuce for their rotten children and the teachers have become irritated when they here parents say that their child has it. I am not sure how good of an idea this is, but, his teachers did cut back on his workload so he could get it all done in class. He was still doing what the other students were doing, but instead of havng 25 math problems to do, they assigned him 10. It did seem to help things at home, because that gave the mom 1 less battle in the evening. Like I said, I do not know how good of an idea this is to do or not, but I can see this hurting him as he becomes older and has not been made to learn how to controll himself and he will probably exspect this from his future teachers.

I just wish I had some advice for you. I think taping his outbursts for the Docs is a great idea, but be very careful that he not see you doing it. It could be the end of your cam-corder. (that are not cheap) It might even be a good idea for you get a lot of footage on him and eventually play it back to him so he can see how he truely acts. That could be a real eye opener for him. IF he is able to make the connection that HE is CAUSING these outbursts and no one else. I am sure you get 99.9% of the blame from him.

This is not a disipline problem, it is a medical issue and should be treated like one to an extent. I hope that you are able to find soething that works for you and I hope it is soon. I can only imagine!

My friend will send her son outside to his "anger box". Her husband built an area that sorta resembles a sand box and there is a hammer that is attatched with a cable, a ball that is also attatched, and several other things that I can't remember. He is not allowed to throw a tantrum in the house. He is sent out side and he really uses the things in that area to relive his stress and then when he is done, he comes in the house as if everything is just fine. Keep in mind that everthing is secured and he is not able to hurt anyone else with these things. It also took him several months to realize that made him feel a little better. Kinda strange, but hey, you do what works for you I guess.

Wishing you the best of luck, and keep us posted!
Kim
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Old 10-19-2004, 03:40 PM   #4
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

Actually, Faithfullywaiting, I have been consistent. We have tried many different ideas, but they have been over a SEVERAL year span. You see, my son is 9, and its been going on for 9 years (since he was an infant). I have four kids.....obviously, if I was a bad parent-they would all be like this. But he is the only one with this issue. We have been doing the time outs for approx. 3-4 years. They are done when he acts up. The extra work and repayment is done to pay for things he has broke-however, he still gets the time outs. The rewards and punishments is the same as taking/giving. That was done for several years before the time out years-that also goes along with star chart-taking and giving stars(the star chart was done when he was 3 and 4 because obviously at that age- computers, sega, and dirt bike was no big deal....therefor we had the star chart-get a star for good-take one when they aren't. Full chart=McDonalds playland). I am now requesting the detention, because of the behavior that has to do with the homework issue. I feel that maybe consequences that are school related for school related issues may help. However- I am still going to continue with the time outs-at least for the time being. However, may change this discipline method-because its OBVIOUSLY not helping-after 3-4 years of being consistant. Thats why I asked for ideas. Because I have tried. ANd its not helping. And I know I need to stop walking on egg shells. But I think alot of people would walk on egg shells in a lions lair. I am sorry if you feel that is inconsistant. I have been through heck and back with this child. Please don't get the idea that I'm a bad parent. I have gone to parenting classes. I have enrolled into state programs to help, We've been to therapy and psyc visits.

Also, after you take everything from your child, and they are still acting up, what is left to take? What would I do then? Switch punishment and be inconsistant.

Also, keep in mind, that mental illness is deeply rooted in the male side of our family. I strongly feel this has something to do with my sons demenore.

One other thing. My son has severe issues with self esteme. He is legally blind, and has had a hard time accomplishing tasks that other childer find simple.....like playing ball, running and jumping, reading and writing. He is very bright, but he has his issues. Other kids and even adults tend to pick about these-thus lowering his self esteme. And yes, I said adults too.....like the baseball coach who wouldn't let him play baseball, because he wanted to teach him about sacrafice. My son can't see the ball well, so he had difficulty hitting and catching. His coach was trying to "teach the kids to be winners". Because he was not a "winner" in the coaches eyes- he chose....and these are the coaches words....."sometimes, a kid has to make sacrafices for the team. If that means he sits out all game-so be it-there's nothing wrong with winning".

I have been trying to build his self esteme. I feel self esteme is a big part of how a child progresses through life.

Also, would you treat a friend, or a dog or a cat better than you would treat your child? I sure wouldn't. I will NOT make my child fear me. I grew up afraid- and thats no life for a child. I will not beat my child. I was beat-and that is no life for a child. You didn't say to beat my child-I know that- but you came across to me cocky,arogant, and acting as if I sit on my hands and watch it all pass by. I am trying. I don't care if you want to acknoledge that or not.
thanks for your help,
ladyshy

 
Old 10-19-2004, 05:27 PM   #5
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

[removed]

Personally, I would search for a new counselor for the entire family. Everyone truly does wish you all the best
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Last edited by Moderator BAC; 10-20-2004 at 05:55 AM. Reason: Do not be judgemental. Everyone has a right to post. If you cannot be supportive - MOVE ON!

 
Old 10-19-2004, 08:23 PM   #6
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

[removed]
ksavage,
thanks for the reply, and again I am very sorry for getting upset with you the other day. The outdoor angry box sounds like a good idea. So does the work thing. I don't think his eng. teacher would go for it-but his math teacher probably would. Italked to his teacher this afternoon. My son had 19 pages of work from the last week that needed done.
I agree, I do think its a medical issue. And I do catch alot of the blame for it....not just from him though. Which is understandable, I guess. He does come across as an unruly, undisciplined, spoiled child. But I know that he's not. There's just something more that I can't put my finger on. I also feel that the ADHD title is misused. When my son was diagnosed with it- I was floored. He's active, but I never really seen his activity level as a problem (my 5 year old is a different story )When I took him to the doctors- his doc was leaning towards bipolar. Then we took him to the psyc, and she said ADHD. At first- I rejected the whole diagnosis. I couldn't see how his mood swings/outbursts could be linked to it. I agreed to therapy and strattera. The therapist explained that the outbursts were from impulsive behavior. I eventually agreed to add concerta- because I just didn't know what else to do. But I had to put my foot down when she wanted to keep raising the meds-because I didn't feel they were helping. I'm going to get a new psyc/therapist. I really think I need a second opinion.

Thanks for your help,
ladyshy

Last edited by Moderator BAC; 10-20-2004 at 05:57 AM. Reason: Please do not address unsupportive or derogatory posts. Instead notify me by e-mail so I can take care of them. Thank you!

 
Old 10-19-2004, 10:12 PM   #7
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

Have you ever considered that your son may just be bored with class? I remember back in grade four, there was a kid like this, turned out he was incredibly intellegent, but just was not being challenged enough. Kids go through many ohasis, I wish you all the luck with dealing with this. Go for ice cream and try to jsut talk to him about it. No one fights over ice cream, and people find it harder to play games, lie or hide behind facades while they eat. (Or at least that is what my grandfather tells me)
Good luck
Francesca

Last edited by franstranges; 10-19-2004 at 10:12 PM.

 
Old 10-20-2004, 03:27 AM   #8
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

Hi I just read another post you replied to and it was about battered wife syndrome...Are you currently being abused or have been in the past by your husband or were you talking about your childhood ? If it has happened to you, has your son witnessed this ? Im not trying to put you on the spot, but I use to be in an abusive relationship and my son witnessed a lot of it and had a lot of problems as a child, just wondering if that could be causing your sons behaviour problems ?
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:15 AM   #9
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

hi,

It sure sounds like you have your hands full! Has your son had a multidisciplinary evaluation?? because it sounds like there may be more going on than just the ADHD.
ODD is a common co-morbid condition with ADHD though the ODD is usually treated with Behavior modification not meds. I think for your sanity and well-being you need to get some more answers as to what is going on.
It's very hard to be in your situation because people will tell you that these kids just need a good spanking or more severe punishment and that will fix everything, but that's not the answer because a lot of these children really can't control themselves. If you have other kids who do not display these tendencies it would appear that even more so, something is going on with your son that needs to be addressed.
Who diagnosed your son with the ADHD and how old was he?A lot of young chilldren are improperly diagnosed and put on the wrong meds which actually end up making the problems worse. Good luck and I hope you get some answers soon!!

 
Old 10-20-2004, 07:47 AM   #10
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

franstrang
Being board with class is a possibility. I know last year he was in high levels than most of the kids- but this year they have lowered him some. He is very smart. He has some probs with reading and writing because of his vision- but for the most part he's very very bright.....especially in math!

haleysmum
I was abused both-as a child and wife. As a wife, the physical abuse was minor (happened every now and then). Luckly, the children never witnessed any of it (they were questioned), then I left, and my husband got counceling(realized he had a problem finally!) We both wanted to avoid the escalation where it would put the kids at risk.

juliennes

I don't think he has ever had a multidisciplinary evaluation. I've never heard that mentioned. They are finally going to do an eval. of some sort on him-but they didn't say what it was called. It's been put on delay right now though-because they are talking a price of $700- and I don't have it. I'm going to look into the councelors/psycs. In a different closer town-they go on income-and visits-no matter what kind will only cost us $4.00. I've just always taken the kids to this psyc. Because she was highly recommended by doctors as "excellent". He was diagnosed when he was 6- by the psycologist. This same psyc doctor, diagnosed my other son when he was only 3.....However, his diagnosis I believe is 1000% correct. He is hyper! Not violent like my nine year old though. He does ornary things-but not violent. My nine year old is the only one out of the four that has these fits of rage.

thanks,
ladyshy

 
Old 10-20-2004, 09:52 AM   #11
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

Sometimes I really do think that ADHD/ADD is used too often as a diagnosis. So many disorders encompass ADHD tendencies that Psychs. are too quick to just say it's ADHD than delve deeper IMHO. I would try a Pediatric Neurologist if you can swing it some how...I know you said money is an issue so I'm not sure if this is a possiblity, but it's something to think about as they might be able to give a more thorough evaluation and see the whole picture as to what's going on here.
Has your son had an evaluation done by the school? Not sure by your post if he's having difficulties at school other than not bringing home his work...but a school evaluation might be able to give you some answers as well.

Last edited by Juliennes; 10-20-2004 at 09:53 AM.

 
Old 10-20-2004, 12:11 PM   #12
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

The school hasn't done any evals that I'm aware of, other than for special help (title 1). He's supposed to be getting extra help for his reading and comprehension stuff. He is also signed up for an after school program called power up- but they evidently haven't started it yet, because they haven't been having him go there. The school never told me what day it started for sure. Then again, my son may just be balking on that also. I think I better call the school and check.

The troubles are at school and home. At school he sits and doesn't do his work-thats how he's acumulating so much to bring home. He has been in trouble for his temper also and fibbing.

 
Old 10-20-2004, 12:21 PM   #13
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

You can have the school district evaluate him at no cost to you...if he is in a public school district. It would be of no cost to you and then they would have to implement an individual education plan or "IEP" I believe he would qualifiy for an IEP just for the ADHD as it stands now. With the school evaluation and an IEP in place they would have to take a more active approach to making sure he gets what he needs as far as school work being done, or making adjustments to his work load etc. so it is a positive experience for him.

 
Old 10-20-2004, 12:44 PM   #14
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

I am sorry if you have stated this in a priror post, but I have a 2 year crawling on me 1/2 the time I am on the computer.

OK....does your son have outbursts as school as well as he does at home? Is he as violent at school? Or does he just sit there and stare off into space?

If he is sitting doing nothing, is it possible for him to set closer to the teachers so they are able to get his attention & tell him he needs to do his work w/out drawing attention from the rest of the calss?

I am not sure if you work outside of the home, but is there way for you to go to school and spend the entire day with him? You could go to every class and maybe that would give you more of an idea what changes can be made to help him. I know that at the age of 9 I would have "died" if my mother went to school with me, but you need to do what works for him.

He has so many other issues going on right now, I would like to know if they have him in a mainstreem classroom, or if he is in a special needs class. I am a bit confused on the classification of "legally blind". I think that means that he has glasses and can actually see, but his eyesight is just very poor. How is his vision corrected? (hope that ? made sense)

I know that we have discussed is behavior at home and I feel like I have a good idea of what you are talking about, but the only other issues that you mention about school is that he does not do his work. If he does not cause troubles at school and have tantrums there as well, that will be very interesting. That would show that he in fact CAN controll himself. Keep in mind......I am grasping at straws at this point. I truely don't know what it is like & guess I should shut up until you havr the to answer my many ?'s
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:13 PM   #15
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Re: My son is tooooooo stubborn!!!!!

Quote:
Also, would you treat a friend, or a dog or a cat better than you would treat your child? I sure wouldn't. I will NOT make my child fear me. I grew up afraid- and thats no life for a child. I will not beat my child. I was beat-and that is no life for a child. You didn't say to beat my child-I know that- but you came across to me cocky,arogant, and acting as if I sit on my hands and watch it all pass by. I am trying. I don't care if you want to acknoledge that or not.

I apologize if I came across as arogant and cocky. I didn't mean to be, and I never meant to make you feel like a bad parent. I'm sorry you have these issues with your son, and was simply trying to make suggestions, I didn't mean to point my finger at you. I never said to "beat" your child. I would definitely treat my child MUCH better than any animal, or even friends. Having a strong authority hold over your children isn't necessarily to make your children fear you. I just feel many children aren't taught respect for their parents. Obviously we need to take each case individually. However, again, I would still not walk on eggshells around him. No child has that right in anyone's home. I'm sure you have done all you can to help your son, again I'm sorry I came across arrogantly. Forgive me.

 
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