Mother needs insight.... - Parenting Issues Message Board

Marie55 · 10-12-2002, 09:39 PM

Mother/daughter relationship is very strained and I need some insight.

I was childless for several years then God blessed me with the most beautiful little baby girl. She was precious and the apple of my eye. I loved her dearly and still do. When the second child came along she did not move over to make room. I rocked the baby with oldest sitting my lap reading a book to her. I cooked meals while doing hoola-hoops with her at same time. She demanded constant attention.

We had 5 children in 10 years, so I was always busy with babies along with the older children. Discipline was always left up to me. My husband was from the old school of being the provider and when he came home watch tv or read newspaper and not help with children. Therefore he was always the sweet daddy and mother was the meany dishing out discipline when needed.

Our oldest daughter preferred attention in the negative way and by age 10 she was a handful. No matter what method I used it did not work, she was going to do as she pleased regardless of the consequences.

By the time she was 16 years old she hated her mother, but I still loved her and still do but the relationship between us has always been strained. She started pulling away, distancing herself and not opening up to conversations or anything, did not even want to hear her mother's voice. She always wanted money spent on her but we had a large family and money just was not there to take her shopping like some of her friends mothers did.

In other words, she has felt deprived, abused and unloved. All quite to the contrary.

At age 42 she wants a relationship with her mother but wants her mother to say things she wants her to say, in other words put words in the mother's mouth that are not true and wants her to make promises that simply are not realistic or does not apply plus give ultimatiums.

When she gets angry at siblings she ends up ripping mother up one side and down the other and mother is the blame for everything that has not worked out in her life. She is still single.

I am at my witts end on knowing how to deal with my daughter. She was raised with same rules, discipline as the others, however, she was disciplined more because she did more to be diciplined for. I could not let her hurt the other children, which she did on a regular basis.

She wants me to answer questions about the past. I really do not have answers for her. I did the best I could, God did not send instructions with a strong willed baby. I have turned it over to God, it has been too much for me and my health is fragile. She has become a religious fanatic to a certain extent but does not apply God's word to herself and relationship with mother. She has no respect for me.

Please advise how to handle this situation. No parent is perfect, we all make mistakes but we do the best we can.

Trying to sit down and talk with her just does not work, her anger, raised voice, accusations, demands, etc. defeat the purpose.

Tomorrow, we will probably have another sit down discussion which will leave us both in tears.

If anyone has advice I need it now.

Thanks,

Marie

ffsmith · 10-12-2002, 11:40 PM

Is it possible to see a therapist or a counselor with your daughter?
If you still love her and she wants a relationship with you this might be the best way to go and might help avoid too many more tears.

Now I am going to say some things that might sound like an attack on you
But this is NOT my intention.
I am just saying some things you might want to think about.

I am very bias because I have a mother who has done some very nasty things to me and I have no kids of my own so do not even listen to me if you do not want to.

Plus your daughter is old enough to be forgiving and nice if you are making an effort.

First you seem very close minded about your daughter. You have her labeled as the difficult child. The needy child. She is always a handful and never listens to you.
All these things may be 100% true, but to constantly interact with her with this attitude is not the way to
start.

You start with a chip on your shoulder that you did the best that you could and she is the problem,
And I am sure she starts with a chip that you were mean and you are the problem in her life and she was good.
You both start with attitudes that are not going to help the relationship.

You say, “she has felt deprived, abused and unloved. All quite to the contrary.”
That too is the wrong attitude. Again you may be 100% correct, but it will never change the fact that this is the way your daughter feels.

There is no point trying to argue that what she feels is wrong. Trying to point out that she was a difficult child will not help either. Using the logic that she was raised under the same rules and discipline as every one else is not going to work either because she is an individual and even the fact that she was the first child makes the situation unique.

Like you said you made some mistakes, and everyone does. Just make sure she knows that you truly are sorry.

Anger and emotion probably has clouded the way your daughter sees the past. I am sure you do disserve more respect then she gives you.

Raised voices never work. Tell her that this will not be accepted.

Now how to deal with the accusations, demands, ultimatums and the things she wants you to say.
DO NOT BE DEFENSIVE!!
This will just lead her to get more angry and louder.
Here are some examples of non-defensive responses
1 oh
2 oh, I see
3 that is interesting
4 you are certainly entitled to your opinion
5 I am sorry that you feel this way
6 I am sorry that you don’t approve
7 you might be right, let me think about that
8 I am sorry that you are so upset (hurt, disappointed)
9 please can we talk about this more latter when I (you, both of us) are not so upset.

Trying to interact in a non-defensive way is almost impossible with out practice and effort. So like I said in the beginning maybe you could both talk with a counselor.
You are a little vague on what all she is asking of you, but if you are uncomfortable with it than do not agree to it.

If your think what she is saying is untrue, than say that you have a difference of opinion but still respect her and her opinions.

I do not know what to say about the religious fanaticism, in my opinion it is best if that stays out of the relationship all together because it just clouds the issues and is ammunition for both sides

At some point you may have to make a choice that it is just too painful to have her in your life. At that point you can cut off these sit down discussion and all interaction that is just is not healthy for you.

Even if she does not want to see a counselor with you, I think you might be able to learn some techniques for dealing with the situation and your feelings by seeing one alone.

Again this is all just ideas do not take me too seriously

Good Luck and Thinking of You

[This message has been edited by ffsmith (edited 10-13-2002).]

Marie55 · 10-13-2002, 12:21 PM

Thank you ffsmith. I am not offended at anything you had to say. I need to hear from someone else about how to try and handle the situation. I want my daughter in my life but want it to be a pleasant one.

I can give you a fresh example. Last night I showed her and other daughters a book by Beth Moore about prayer a SS Class member had loaned me recently. Since my oldest daughter has been in many Bible studies, etc. I thought she could give me her opinion as to how good the book was and whether it would be worth spending the money to purchase. The first thing she said was "Don't read this book and try to apply anything to me." I replied that the SS Class member had loaned the book to two other members and they both bought their own copy. What I was wanting to know if she thought the book was worth the price. My daughter also said she had done the Beth Moore study series.

There was no conversation before or after regarding our relationship but she leaped to cut me off at the pass so to speak.

My daugher lives in another city, too far for either of us to travel to see a counselor together. I will most likely seek a counselor here and go. I have tried to reach my daughter thru the years but she has only the same thing to complain about over and over, that is we don't have a good relatioship, I don't have the same relationship with her that I have with other daughers. I do not get ripped up one side down and the other by other daughters, so naturally the relationship with them is more pleasant and not strained. She does not let go of anything, holds onto grudges forever. Actually she has not verbalized the exact thing that is bothering her. I wish she would write down the things she wants to clear up, then I would know what is troubling her and perhaps be able to give an explanation to her satisfaction.

I have a forgiving heart and I know she does too but there is a road block in the way for her to forgive.

Thanks for the non-defensive replies. Yes, I have automatically taken the defensive when being attacked. That probably added fuel to the fire.

Yes, my daugher is God's wonderful blessing, beautiful, intellient, talented, many redeeming qualities. This makes it even more difficult to understand her roadblock in our relationship.

Yes, I was vague because I only have vague info from my daughter as to what the problem is.

You mentioned she is an individual. Very true, I had to work with 5 different personalities and what worked for one did not work for another, I had to try and find what would work with each one of them. My oldest daugher was my challenge, I never found what would work. Try to give her more love and she pulled away. However, all were expected to have respect for one another. She apparently did not feel this applied to her.

I spoke with the peditrician one time about how to deal with her. He said to draw a line on what had to be disciplined and let the other slide. I did that, but it did not solve the problem. I drew the line that discipline would be dealt with if she hurt the other children and tried to be blind to her many other infractions. This did not work.

Thanks,

Marie

ffsmith · 10-13-2002, 02:43 PM

Your example about the book shows that there is no doubt that your daughter is also stuck in to behaving a certain way. She jumps to the conclusion that you are attacking her or using that book against her.
When this is not your intention.
This is NOT a good thing for her to do.
Obviously she feels threatened and does not have good confidence. I can relate to that. And even if there is no good reason for her to feel that way, she does.

But again you have to be non-defensive and say ‘yes you are right I will not try and apply it to you”
It sounds like you did ok

It is normal for you to be closer to the daughters who do not rip you up and down.

But, it is also normal for your daughter to resent the fact that you are closer to the other daughters.
I am sure this makes her feel very bad even if she is mostly responsible. Or if things start with her behavior as you say

Your idea about writing things down is great.

Have her do it. Maybe you could exchange letters every week. Talk about your relationship and just talk about every day life. If being mother and daughter did not work maybe just try just being friends at this point.

You are probably never going to be able to give an explanation to her satisfaction.
She is going to want an apology for something??? And want you to take responsibility for something???
I am not saying she is right but I think you will at some point have to make a decision as to how far you are able to go and admit to for the sake of the relationship.

When you say ‘She does not let go of anything, holds onto grudges forever’
You are hinting that you want her to do something and she wants you to do something.
Like you say there is a roadblock there.

I wish I could pin point the roadblock for you but I can not.
Maybe she can not either?

Can she meet with a counselor or a therapist alone about the relationship??

I feel really bad for you because you obviously love your daughter, but more than that you are looking for a way to make things better. And just the fact that you did not get super defensive about the things that I said shows that you do have an open mind.
There is no doubt that she will need to also have an open mind and make just as much of an effort as you.
Both of you are going to need to change your ways of thinking in order for the relationship to improve.
You did nothing terrible in the past. You were a good mother and did try your hardest to do the right thing.
You do deserve a lot A LOT of credit for this. But as you say mistakes were made and you were just not able to find a good way to deal with her. This is something that you may need to take responsibility for even though you might not see it as your fault. It is also something your daughter needs to get over and let the grudge go and forgive.

I also have a grudge against both parents that I will not let go of.

I will never forgive my father for promising me that I would be able to operate one of his businesses. Then not only did he not give me a fair chance but instead of admitting that he mislead me he blames me for making him go back on his word, calls me a “failure” and lately “crazy” and “ill”. If he would just admit that he hurt me badly it would be easier for me to drop this grudge, but he can never do that and because of this I can not love him like I wish I could. I hurt too badly

My mother has done things like refuse to write one page with my father stating what their intentions were for the businesses in the year 2000. She has written a very nasty letter to my lawyer behind my back that she refuses to ask him to return. She acknowledges that she knows these things have hurt me badly. Yet she will not write the page to this day and will not get the letter back?

Things I have forgiven or let go of it the time my mother made deposits into my accounts at tax time with out my approval because she needed to for her taxes to come out right. (She did not consider at all what it did to my taxes) I also try to forgive her attitude that she is entitled to have taken over (when I went into the military) a roadside business that I had started because she says I had “abandoned it”. She probably has to say this just so can live with herself. Still every year she runs that business it does bother me a little. I am determined to not have this be a wedge and thus give her and easy way out (just write one page and get one letter back) but it is hard when she insists on blaming me for her actions.

Now I am NOT saying my experiences are in any way similar to yours. But I thought I would share them with you as they are about grudges and forgiveness.

Wishing you the best.

Marie55 · 10-13-2002, 09:17 PM

Thanks again for your help. This afternoon we had a talk and prayer time with our daughter before she returned to her home in another city. I asked her to forgive me for the things she feels I did in the past and present but that was not enough. She said I probably did not even know what I had done and that is true, so I asked her to name the things so I would know. She could not, only saying it was little things here and there all thru the years that had built up and she could not take it anymore.

She did mention a recent email I sent asking her what kind of quilt she wanted me to make for her and sent a URL for her to look at a pattern that I thought might be close to what she wanted. She said I was ugly in the email. Hey, I only asked about a particular pattern and all I wanted to know was whether it came close to what she had in mind. I want to make a design she would enjoy. She called to discuss the quilt and she decided she might want a king size. Since I have carpal tunnel surgery on both hands, my hands are weak and fingers go numb some times. This makes hand quilting very difficult for me. I told her if she wanted a large quilt I could make the applique designed quilt top but she would need to have it quilted because my hands would not hold out to do it. She took this to mean that I would not make a quilt for her. Finally found out that she has a quilt handmade by each of her grandmothers and she wanted a hand made quilt all the way by me. Now, I did not say I would not make a quilt, just was letting her know I had physical limitations. To her this was another infraction on my part. Bad hands or not, she wanted me to quilt a large quilt. No thought for my pain, only what she wanted.

To clarify the quilt thing, I started crocheting bedspread or tablecloths for each child when they married, to be an heirloom wedding gift. I did make a coverlet for first daughter to marry and a tablecloth for the second daughter to marry and now have a tablecloth about half way made for a son, next in line. Another son married and I have not started his and he has been married 5 years. It takes me a long time to crochet these (bum hands). Since my oldest daughter has not married she asked if that meant she did not get a tablecloth. I told her I would make one when I finished the wedding gifts. She decided she would rather have a quilt instead for a throw on the sofa. I was not going to leave her out just because she did not marry but did need to make the wedding gifts first.

She did agree that she needed to be less sensitive and insisted I needed to think about what I say before speaking. I say yes to both, but if what I say does not seem to be anything wrong with it, never fails but my daughter will make someting negative out of it.

I am in hopes our discussion this evening will help but only time will tell. No, she will not go to a counselor or theapist because she does not feel there is anything wrong with her, it is all her mother and her mother needs to make all the changes.

Emailing back and forth is not the answer, she picks my emails to pieces turning everything I say into negative . She will find something wrong with everything that I write, so that is not an option.

At this point, lots of prayer for both of us, in hopes the roadblock will be resolved.

I found this forum and felt someone here might have some insight since most of you apparently have problems with parents or others. I felt it would be good to get opinions from those who have been on my daughter's side of the fence, to help open my eyes to possible problems.

Sorry to hear about your grudges. It is a shame that all families cannot be close and loving. I do hope things will work out for you and your parents.

Marie