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Old 03-02-2004, 05:18 PM   #1
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rape?

is it rape if u tell a guy no a million times and he doesnt listen to u but then have sex and go along with it bc u know if u say no it wont work anyways? this happened to my friend and i believe its rape but im not too sure.

 
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Old 03-02-2004, 05:30 PM   #2
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Re: rape?

Yep. There are ALOT of people when they get raped after several no's become submissive.....No means No...

 
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Old 03-02-2004, 10:09 PM   #3
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Re: rape?

It depends on what the actual situation was. Was this all in one night? Were they dating and she kept saying no,but one night just said "Oh okay,Im tired of fighting you,just go ahead" and went along with it. Or did he force her down and say" I'm having you whether you like it or not" so then she gave up?Rape is a serious charge.I think we need more specifics to comment.

 
Old 03-02-2004, 10:47 PM   #4
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Re: rape?

it was all in one night. he just wanted her really bad and she wasnt sure if she should so she kept saying no. then they went back to his house to chill and they were just sittin on the bed and he kept tryin like really hard and she kept sayin no then just gave in bc there was no point of tellin him no anymore. p.s. they arent goin out either. they r just friends.

 
Old 03-02-2004, 11:09 PM   #5
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Re: rape?

Well to me, if she just gave up and let him do it,and didn't try to get away then it's not really rape. Unless he was threatening or something, but it doesn't sound that way. If she really didn't want to do it,couldn't she have just gotten up and left?

 
Old 03-03-2004, 07:16 AM   #6
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Re: rape?

Actually rape has alot of gray areas and force doesnt always have to be used to rape someone. Look at women/men who are drunk/drugged and have no control or lose consciousness those times force is not used since the person isnt fighting or trying to flee.
When a person says no over and over but then freezes and the sexual act occurs that doesnt mean he/she consented to sex but it does mean it can still be classified as rape. Many times people who are victims of child abuse or even previous rapes they dont fight when it comes to situations like the one this girl was in. So it can still be considered rape even if force isnt used.

Your friend should report this and the sooner the better...the longer she waits the harder it is to prove. Or if you cant get her to report it have her talk to someone like through a rape crisis phone number or rape crisis place.
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Old 03-03-2004, 07:21 AM   #7
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Re: rape?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibabe
is it rape if u tell a guy no a million times and he doesnt listen to u but then have sex and go along with it bc u know if u say no it wont work anyways? this happened to my friend and i believe its rape but im not too sure.
There are only two ways NO doesn't work. One is after a woman says NO and a man uses force or threat of force to have his way anyway. This is clearly rape. The other is if a women says NO but ultimately gives in without the use of force or threat of harm by the man. This is called very bad judgement and is not rape.

Unless there was force, or unless the threat of force was present, it is not rape. If a man continually asks for sex and a women says no, but there is no sense of danger or imminent harm, then the women bears responsibility for staying with the man and then ultimaltey giving in. We can never confuse the horrific act of rape with the extreme poor judgement of a women giving in.

When we start categorising poor judgement as rape it waters down the terrible nature of the act and places in the same category women that have been subject to force and humilation with those that have been too weak minded or lack the resolution to leave a situation they don'e want to be in.

If there was a real and present concern for harm to the women in question, this changes things. But given the information provided in the original post, this does not sound like the case.

When a man starts to pressure you to do things you don't want to do...GET OUT! If you ultimately give in because you become too tired of hearing it or too tired to keep up the game, you have allowed yourself to make a decision based on poor judegment. Giving in was the wrong decision and getting out would have been the right one.

To me the key to this senario is that the man kept asking and pushing for it and the women kept saying no. Then, after having this oportunity to see exactly what he wanted and how hard he was willing to press for it, she still decided to go to his house and chill on his bed. He pressures her for sex and she goes to his bedroom to "chill". Bad decision.

Again if force was involved, no question it was rape. If not, I hope she learned something from the experience.

 
Old 03-03-2004, 07:26 AM   #8
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Re: rape?

Why didn't she just get up and leave when he started hassling her, instead of staying there. If it was me and I had to say NO more than once then I would have left, plain and simple. In my opinion this wasn't a rape, unless there is more to it that you're not telling us (or she's not telling you).

 
Old 03-03-2004, 07:41 AM   #9
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Re: rape?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoff9600
When a person says no over and over but then freezes and the sexual act occurs that doesnt mean he/she consented to sex but it does mean it can still be classified as rape.
I have to disagree. If a person is in control of all their mental and physical faculties (i.e., not drunk, drugged, sick, incapacitated, etc.) and there is no attempted use of force or suggestion that force or harm is or may be involved, it is a simple matter of poor judgement. You cannot place the responsiblity for bad decisions on others. Absolutely, NO means NO. But it only means no if you enforce it. One way of ensuring that No will mean NO is to leave the presence of the person that doesn't want you to say NO. If you are free to do this with no threat of harm, then this is your responsibility to do.

If the woman in this situation was in control of all her faculties and was not under any threat of harm, it would be a huge injustice to make the accusation of rape. If I keep asking someone for money over and over and they choose to stay in my presense and listen to my incesent pleas for money, and then they give in to my constant whining...shame on them. While I would certainly be a complete jerk for acting this way, it would be irrresponsible to charge me with stealing. Tell me to get lost and then send me away or get away from me yourself. That is where the decision needs to be made. Not charging me with stealing after they gave in and turned over their money to me. One can make all sorts of scenarios and what ifs with previous situations of abuse or rapes, but that is not what the original post suggested.

Again, this stems from a question of impediments to self control and potential threat. If she was in control and there was no fear of harm, she miust learn from the very unfortunate lesson.

 
Old 03-03-2004, 08:09 AM   #10
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Re: rape?

Yes, it was rape. If a woman says no, then sex is out of the question for the rest of that evening, even if she says yes later that evening, and the man has sex with her, he can be charged with rape. I knew of a guy that got into trouble like that. Check with a lawyer, they can tell you about the rape laws, there is a lot of gray areas when it comes to rape/date rape.

 
Old 03-03-2004, 09:05 AM   #11
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Re: rape?

In my opinion, this is not a rape. She has the power to refuse. If it gets physical from his side and with the nature of force I think it will be 100% rape. But, to me and the way you decribe it is not a rape at all...

 
Old 03-03-2004, 09:13 AM   #12
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Re: rape?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael26288
If a woman says no, then sex is out of the question for the rest of that evening, even if she says yes later that evening, and the man has sex with her, he can be charged with rape.
I need to be either enlightened or educated on how a women under no threat of harm can go from a state of being clothed to a state of being unclothed, then on to a physical state of having a man enter her and not have this be a decision she made. No threat, no harm, no force. Her clothes do not fall off of their own volition. If he starts to take them off and she resists and he resists harder, this is force. If he starts to take them off and she "gives in" under no force and under no threat of harm... this is a bad decision.

I would have to see the case proceedings to believe that a rape conviction has ever occured after a women, in full control of her faculties, agreed to sex where no hint or threat of harm existed.

Defense Attorney: Did you try to get up from the bed?
Woman: No

Defense Attorney: When he exposed himself, did you fear that if you got up and left he would come after you in a threatening manner?
Woman: No

Defense Attorney: Did you fear if you had physically resisted that you would be in any danger
Woman: No

Defense Attorney: Could you have gotten up from the bed if you decided to?
Woman: Yes


A conviction of rape that comes from this dialog would be a huge missapropriation of justice. Rape is a horrible thing and men that are convicted of rape should see very little mercy. Women that "give in" to sex and then regret it later should understand the difference between rape and bad judgement.

Keeping in mind that we know very few facts associated with this particular incident. We only know and can only opine over the information provided by the original poster.

 
Old 03-03-2004, 02:21 PM   #13
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Re: rape?

i had something kind of like that happen to me once...

first off, i lost my virginity the first time i got drunk...he wasn't drunk...i was so outta it i didn't know what was going on...all i remember is he entered me and moments later a friend came in the room and he quit...is that really rape...some would say so...

then, when i was 18, my senior class was spending the night on the school lawn...a guy i had had a relationship with before ran into me down away from everyone else (i went down there to go to the bathroom)...but anyhow, i said no several times, but he still entered me...and just like the first time, somebody came within earshot and he quit...i was kinda like that girl you mentioned...i said no several times, but quit when he went ahead and did it anyways...

i never turned either guy in because i wasn't sure if it was considered rape or not..especially the second guy (i had had sex with him in our relationship)...now it's too late to do anything about it, and i'm still not sure if either case was considered rape or not...is it considered rape when they enter you and quit seconds later?
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Old 03-04-2004, 06:37 AM   #14
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Re: rape?

Use your search engines people and look up rape laws, Skibabe's freind is a victim of "acquaintance rape" also called "date rape " and "hidden rape" she is also a victim of "sexual coercion". By the way Villagegal, the law says if a woman is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, she is unable to give consent for sex, and it is considered rape. A person can get into a rape incident so easy and not even know it. Sorry if I upset any of you with this post.

 
Old 03-04-2004, 10:38 AM   #15
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Re: rape?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael26288
Use your search engines people and look up rape laws, Skibabe's freind is a victim of "acquaintance rape" also called "date rape " and "hidden rape" she is also a victim of "sexual coercion". By the way Villagegal, the law says if a woman is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, she is unable to give consent for sex, and it is considered rape. A person can get into a rape incident so easy and not even know it. Sorry if I upset any of you with this post.
You say, "Yes it was rape", but then you go on to support your position based on examples such as "acquaintance rape...date rape...hidden rape". The problem with this is that each one of these is based on any of the following: force, cohersion, drugs/alcohol, etc. One example from many:

“Acquaintance Rape” is the act of forcing sex on a date or acquaintance. In Michigan, sexual contact without consent is defined as “Criminal Sexual Conduct.” Sexual contact, including touching, through force or coercion or with a victim who is helpless or mentally incapacitated is sexual conduct punishable by imprisonment and/or fine.

The original description provided of the actual situation did not hint at any force, threat of harm, or altered state of mind.

 
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