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Old 02-27-2003, 11:23 AM   #1
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SciTeach HB User
Post Daughter of a Narcissist

I am 53 and have just determined in the last few years that my dad has classic symptoms of a narcissictic personality. Just finding out that his behavior has a name is a great relief, but living with him as a child and dealing with him as an adult is unbelievable!!!

He is currently the sole caregiver of my 81 yr mom, and mom has Alzheimers. Since he lacks empathy (a trait of narcissists) it concerns me greatly about the care my mom is receiving.

If anyone is familiar with narcissism and understands what it is like dealing with them (or if you'd like to know what I have to deal with) I would love to talk to you.

SciTeach

 
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:38 PM   #2
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Your realization sounds similar to my own experience. I am the same age mentioned and several years ago I began to plumb the depths of narcissistic family patterns.

My personal realizations were triggered by the progressive family problems involving an aging parent and a step-mother suffering from Alzheimer's disease. I have now read and researched many books by various authors who deal with narcissism and psychopathology.

There are several excellent books that reveal the structure of narcissistic disorders and the psychological games individuals and families play. I am open to discussing and exploring these subjects with you.

 
Old 02-28-2003, 07:21 AM   #3
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Chiron
Thanks for your reply. I am so surprised in the similarities in our situations. I wouldn't have thought it likely. I would love to know what books your have found useful as well as being able to talk to someone who really understands what dealing with a NPD is like.

Mom (81) was diagnosed about 3 years ago with AD. Dad (86) has never really accepted what is going on. He knows about AD because he reads about it on the internet, but he still doesn't "get it". He and Mom live in the next county about 45 minutes from me. He will not consider moving back closer to me even though he grew up in my county.

He will not give me a key to his house for emergencies. When I try to tell him he could fall and be knocked unconscious or have a stroke and leave Mom upset and unable to get help, his response is that nothing is going to happen to him.

Don't let me get started, there is not enough room on the internet for me to write it all. Is your stepmom still at home with your dad? Does he have any help with her care?

I need to stop now, but I would like to talk to you more. Thanks again for your response.

SciTeach

 
Old 03-01-2003, 07:19 AM   #4
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Ignorance is the mother of devotion. -- Robert Burton

My readings took place over a three to five year period of independent research and study. Each book I read in one way or another gave me an angular perspective of the destructive narcissistic pattern.

Often I could relate directly what I read in a familial way. In a search for personal understanding I read a number of professional books on the destructive narcissistic personality pattern:

"Narcissism and Character Transformation: The Psychology of Narcissistic Character Disorders" by Nathan Schwartz-Salant; "Alcoholism, Narcissism, and Psychopathology" by Gary G. Forrest; "Individuation & Narcissism: The Psychology of Self in Jung & Kohut" by Mario Jacoby; "The Destructive Narcissistic Pattern" by Nina W. Brown; "Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism" by Otto Kernberg; and, "Disorders of Narcissism: Diagnostic, Clinical, and Empirical Implications" by Elsa F. Ronningstam, Editor.

A more personalized account was given in: "Trapped In The Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists In Their Struggle For Self" by Elam Golomb.

After reading Gary G. Forrest's narcissistic profiling within the military environment I understood the general nature of the narcissistic personality: "Entitlement Deprivation," "Gender Identity," and "People Problems."

Several years earlier I shared similar observations with a school psychologist, speaking of "Functional Unsanity." Forrest discourse confirmed my observations to a great extent. I was somewhat dumb struck at all the time I had wasted in my life following a parental program of "Empty Promises."

At the same time I felt a lightness of being for several days as I reclaimed my energies. Unless you experience a casehardened narcissist first hand, you really cannot understand how "Rigid and Stubborn and Determined" they are to have their own way over others.

Cleverness and deception seem to be the order of the day. I know how frustrating the whole experience can be and I can relate to the human and economic problems realized therein. My own organizational parent was eighty-one when his health problems began with his second wife and her neurological deterioration.

She was younger than he was and he had more or less expected her to be taking care of him in his aging years. They both were of the old school and difficult personalities to be around, family included. He wanted to be King Of The Hill in his own castle for as long as possible.

They were in all ways fighting for a dominant position. Some discussion and consideration was given to a nursing home and an assisted-living environment, but a trusted professional family member discounted such a move, and in so doing completely alienated and undermined his own privileged position.

Estrangement was always part of the general status quo. "The Old Man" was determined to "take care of her" in every way, not wanting to leave her out of his sight for a moment, because "she might hurt herself." I had heard and experienced this before in the medical complications of the first marriage.

Allegedly, he did everything until his death some five years later. He progressively took over the cooking, cleaning, washing, feeding, dressing, and the maintaining of her personal functions of toiletry and bathing. It was really more than anyone could handle, including him. He was an enigma of personality, a walking contradiction of personal intentions. All the financial planning was for naught.

His life was about accumulation and investment and success; yet, paradoxically, he could not use his wealth to his or anyone else's advantage in a realistic way. It was always for the children, who were by and large grown adults. In personal and money matters, no one could get close to him without feeling emotionally abused.

He saw to it that she had more than adequate medical care, but his efforts were not enough to win her children over to his Will (To Power Over Others). Imitatively, they were just as determined to be as arrogant, stubborn, and ignorant as he was akin to be. I doubt they realized this, but I now believe they unknowingly mirrored his behavioral patterns as a family gamesmanship and one-upmanship.

There were alternative agendas involved as a highly competitive family game of economics began over who was going to die first. The extended families became involved in major conflicts of interests and positioning, emotionally and economically.

It is a very difficult story to tell honestly and judiciously, since no one could influence otherwise. He had to be in complete control of everything. He was always right, even when he was clearly wrong. Such behavior was in all ways an outrageous denial of any response-ability on his part.

When he finally fell ill, he went to the hospital and died within a week of doing so. She was placed in a nursing home, and a battle over a first and second Will came into play by a divided family, a family that was never really unified from the beginning.

The conditions of her care and treatment and the diagnosis of her having Alzheimer's disease were used as a leverage to undermine the will and the estate affairs. The complications were catastrophic and tragic in every way, but no one could leave “Will” enough alone in these antagonistic family affairs.

In hindsight, I often think that the only course of action that could have been taken would have been to take over his personal affairs legally by declaring him incompetent, but he was not incompetent. Rather, he was extremely functional, but in an unsound way.

As for myself, I kept my distance and pursued the path of knowledge as a wealth of understanding in these family affairs. I tried to keep it “in house.”

The family matrix is much deeper in psychological complexity; however, the above synopsis is a thumbnail sketch of what I have basically realized in the last few years.

How does my synopsis compare to your own experience?

 
Old 03-01-2003, 03:47 PM   #5
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After spending two years in therapy, I am convinced my mother is a narcissist. Conrol over her three adult children (41, 45, 50) is her main focus in life. She obsesses about her millions of dollars. She constantly tells us individually that she has removed one of us at one time or another from her will. (She can take it to the grave for all I care.) She is 81 years old and just a few minutes ago she left a message on my voice mail at home. She said she wanted me to come to her house so she can have a chat with me. It seems she doesn't think I have the correct vision for the successfulness of my business (which is very successful). She wants me to buy out other businesses in the area to show everyone in town how successful I am. (I bought the business in 1981 from my mother and father). It is killing her that she has nothing to do with the successfulness of what I have been doing. And her favorite thing to say to her three children is how much a disappoinment we have been to her. I could go on and on. But I know one thing, this girl isn't having a chat with her mother this weekend. LOL!!

 
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