Okay, here's my outlook on life. I'm all about finding the right woman to spend the rest of my life with. Obviously, love is probably the most important thing in life.
But, for some reason, I've never been really enthusiastic about having kids. Is it possible for a girl to feel the same way? I'm kind of having a small crisis tonight in that I'm beginnin top think I'm in some trouble. It would really be comforting for someone to re-affirm that there are women out there who are looking for love, a satisfying career, etc., but are not really looking forward to having children.
I'm 23 by the way, and I guess my sentiments could change, but I've felt this way for awhile now.
If women weren't 'enthusiastic' about having kids, then we wouldn't have had the first let alone the ones we had after!
Come on now. Of course most women are enthusiastic about having kids. But that isn't the issue here is it. Without sound patronizing, hopefully, your issue is the same as the 17 year old schoolgirls who get pregnant and then 'think' they are going to make fabulous mothers.
The root cause? They've got nothing really going on in life. Possibly they have left school without trying to obtain further education, get mediocre employment, and don't enjoy the same level of social life as their peers. In essence, they are bored, lonely and want someone to love and make them feel special.
I think this is what your problem is. I'm not saying it's weird or anything for guys to want kids...but take it from me, at your age I had one son and a daughter on the way. I was FARRRRRRRRRRRRRR too young, I cannot emphasise that enough. On the outside yes, I was doing exceptionally well for my age, good job, I owned my own home etc HOWEVER, I missed out on a LOT of life. Even now I tell my kids (11 & 15) that I wish I could have given birth to the same kids, but about 10 years later.
There is plenty of time to think about kids. But honestly, I think you need to look at yourself and ask why this is such a big issue right now? Of course most girls of 20 aren't going to be ready to have kids. If you are that intent on doing something like that now, find a woman who is of a ready age to do so.
Mad,
You missed the point entirley. He DOESNT WANT children (now anyway).
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I'm 23 by the way, and I guess my sentiments could change, but I've felt this way for awhile now..
The number of people that, at 23, swear they don't want kids that go on to wanting kids when they reach their thirties is very likely a very big number. If this is how you feel now. If you are determined to find a girl now to settle down with, then you obviously owe it to her to let her know you currently have no desire for kids. This view will likely change as you get farther along down that road of life. Being 23 is nothing at all like being 40. This is not good or bad, just the way it is.
And of course say you do find her and then decide at 32 that you want children and the wife says "No, we got married with the no kids stipulation". Where will that leave the two of you then?
if you find the girl you want to spend the rest of you life with be sure she knows how you feel before you ask her to marry you. Right now you don't want any kids and you don't know if you ever will. You're young. You're feelings can completely change in a few years or maybe they won't ever. Most girls are influenced by their parents wanting grandchildren. She could be in complete agreement with you about children right now but in a few years her feelings can change so keep that in mind.
And of course say you do find her and then decide at 32 that you want children and the wife says "No, we got married with the no kids stipulation". Where will that leave the two of you then?
That is an excellent point. I tell my daughters over and over that, to the extent possible, they need to be very clear with their potential intendeds as to what they will and won't accept in life and in a relationship. I tell them to expect to be held to what they say they are agreeable to. In other words, the games mostly women play in denying much of what they hear or say will come back to bite them later. Don't act like a sex goddess as a fiancé if you don't expect that this will be what your husband will expect after marriage. Don't agree to a lifestyle if you know you don't have it in you to carry out for a lifetime. etc.
In this case, if you really feel strongly about no kids, make that very clear and don't pick a woman that is ambiguous about it.
If the person *REALLY* loves you, they will accept the whole package. I am unable to have children. I knew it early in my twenties, so I am not sure if knowing this early on brought about the mindset of not wanting children, or if I just never really did. I don't want children and don't apologize for it. I enjoy my friend's kids as well as their neices and nephews, but it's a whole different life.
I have met men out there who are not interested in having kids and have found them on the whole to be very in touch with who they are and what they want.
I have also dated a man whom I loved deeply, and who told me (years into the relationship) that he could never really consider being with me for the long term because I could'nt have children, and he wanted more. (He already had two that he was seeing only on the weekends). This hurt, because a health issue is not something that you can change about yourself.
But it was just that comment that put everything into perspective for me. He went on to have another child with another woman whom he is not with, so now he has 3 children that he is not with. Which would have been better? The love of a person who would have been with you through thick and thin, or 3 women you only sort-of liked, procreated with, and now there are 3 great kids, but you're alone?
I guess what I'm saying is, kids can be great, but love with the right person can be just as great. I think that too many people are looking for something or someone to define them when they don't know who they are or what they're here for, and it's not really fair to the child to create them for that purpose.
My sister just spent five years with a man who throughout the relationship insisted that he didn't want kids. My sister didn't mind too much in the beginning but as she started to progress into her 30s she figured she'd better take this a bit more seriously.
Anyway they had everything financially they could want so this wasn't an issue but his excuse always was "I don't want to share my life with a kid because I'm too selfish and I want you to myself"...fair point I guess, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
However after fighting him for several years on this issue, she then started getting very broody and started seeing other men etc. She left his a$$.
NOW he's crying every day begging her to come back and saying he WILL have a baby if that's what she wants. Problem is he fought her so hard on that, she no longer loves him and whilst she still wants a baby, she just doesn't want it with him.
Moral of the story: If you really love someone, don't dig your heels in JUST so you can win, because you will eventually lose.
Relationship are not always about wanting kids. Different people have different outlooks on what they want. This guys goal are sorta like mine. He want to get a good life going before even thinking of a kid. He wants a girl to go out, have a good career, and someone that wants to established themselves.
In ways this isn't a back view. Why not work on the love and getting the things you want before having a child. Once a child is brought into your life alot of things get put on hold. So why not set a career and life before moving on the family wagon.
Well in the case of my sister both were established, both are very financially secure, nice house etc...money in the bank.....and in their 30s....at which point do you say ok we are established enough?
I am 24 years old and just got married in December to a wonderful man. I always said I never wanted children (I also said I would NEVER get married! ) I like kids, but was never the kind of girl who "Oh, all my life I never wanted to be anything but a wife and mother." Nope. I was the independant girl who could and would Do It By Myself!!! And I still do--to a lot of degrees.
Since meeting my now husband, the thought of children is a bit more appealing. Neither of us wants children soon....we like to go and do and play and are still at the age that we can do that. We don't want to be strapped to a mortgage right now or not be able to go out to dinner or take a spontaneous road trip because we can't find a sitter, etc.
I never thought that I would entertain the thought of having kids nor did I think I would want to "settle down" with someone for the rest of my life. I have been pleasantly surprised by the changes in my viewpoint as I have grown and experienced new things. As some of the other posters have mentioned, you may not want children NOW. Hell, I don't want children NOW. But I can no longer rule it out entirely in the future. Just be aware that your feelings on the issue may change. I certainly didn't anticipate that mine would.
Of course they change but I really don't see why the original poster is making such a huge issue out of it. It's not like he's married and it's an immediate issue in his life. Geez.
I can actually see why he is making a big deal out of this. Before I met my Dh the guys I had dated were interested in marriage and kids and at the time I wasnt. Even in high school while I was planning out what I wanted to do the guys were talking of marriage and kids. But then I realized most those guys that is all they had ever known. Small town mentality of finish high school,get a local job,marry and have kids. That wasnt for me and I had acutally planned on if I did get married it wouldnt be until my 30s and if there were kids if wouldnt be until a few years after that. Most the guys I dated when I told them that they werent interested any more. But then I met DH and those plans changed. I got married at 20 and my first son was born after I was 21.
Now on how I can understand he is making a big deal out of it even though he isnt in a relationship or such is simple. It isnt easy to find people who feel the same. A lot of people both men and women see relationships as a series of steps. Those steps for most do tend to include having kids. Not everyone wants to follow those steps and to find someone the feels that isnt easy.
Since there is such a small group that prefer childfree living it is hard to find partners so yeah it can be a big deal. It isnt easy to date and feel that this could be the one and then find out that a sticking point is whether or not to have kids. Then say a person does give in and have kids even though they didnt want to. That can open a whole other can of worms such as resentment,changed relationship,and or even divorce.
I do know some people who live child free lives and wouldnt change it for the world. One of those friends knew from a very young age she didnt ever want children. So it is very possible that even at 23 one can decide they dont want kids and not change their mind later in life or regret their choice.
A good way to find someone who shares the same opinion is to look into childfree living and you should be able to find out some info on groups and such to help you maybe find some women who feel the same way.
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at which point do you say ok we are established enough?
The point of being established is when the both you are ready. People do make mistakes and somtimes things happen sooner than planned but thats the point to adjusting to life in general. when did you feel established? When you decided to get married and have your son. Sometimes it takes people longer than other.
My case I want to wait till about 30 for my first child but I will plan on somthing happening earlier.
I can also see why the poster is concerned... because it is TOUGHER to find a female with the same perspective. Most women have been conditioned all of their lives to think of themselves as mothers in the future tense...(I won't even go into how *WRONG* I think it is for society to be doing this to girls, although it's getting a little better). I think the chances of a female finding a male who is uninterested in having children, is far more common than the reverse scenerio. No one's making an issue, just asking a question--which is what these boards are for.
Madskillz..so, did your sister ever get married and have those kids?
I can also see why the poster is concerned... because it is TOUGHER to find a female with the same perspective. Most women have been conditioned all of their lives to think of themselves as mothers in the future tense...(I won't even go into how *WRONG* I think it is for society to be doing this to girls, although it's getting a little better).
My suggestion is that he moves into a big city then and meet a career women. Some of these women are very denicated to thier careers and don't have time for a child.
This sounds odd but it could be somthing for him to look into. He may be living in an area where its hard to find a women that doesn't have perspective to have a child to make a good family.
He can still have a good life and good work career at the same time.
I haven't read everypost here, but it sounds like you've gotten some good advice. 23 is so young. I just read an article on Quentin Terentio and he just turned 40 and just recently decided he wants to have kids. Hanging out with Uma Thurman's kids made him reconsider. You've got another 17 years to go before you get to where he is. I think the best thing you can do now is not sweat it so much. There are organizations of people who don't want kids, you can check them out on the internet and find a meeting near you. But just date, enjoy, have fun, and be honest. If you think you might get serious about one girl and she may get serious with you, be up front with her about how you feel about kids. That's pretty much all you can do. But I think it's only normal to waiver on your feelings. When I was in my early 20s I really wanted kids. In my late 20s, I was sure I didn't. I thought I might in my early 30s. Now at 39, I'm devastated at the prospect of never having any. It's what I want more than anything in the world, now that I'm so close to having to accept that it may never happen. Be honest, and let love lead the way. You never know. 10 years from now, you could be playing with a niece or nephew or neighbor's kid and realize you'd love to be a dad, and meet a wonderful woman who would make a great mom and have 5 kids and live happily ever after.
This is an interesting topic. I didn't read the whole thread but I was compelled to reply.
I never wanted to have kids. Before I got married to my husband, he expressed that he wanted to have kids. He knew how I felt. And I explained the reason why I didn't want kids. I tried to change my mind to make myself want kids, but I couldn't do it.
My mother is no way happy about my decision.
As time passed, my husband (before we got married) changed his mind and now is totally against having kids.
Not all cases end like that. There has to be a mutual understanding of what each person wants before marriage.
) I like kids, but was never the kind of girl who "Oh, all my life I never wanted to be anything but a wife and mother." Nope. I was the independant girl who could and would Do It By Myself!!! And I still do--to a lot of degrees. 
