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Old 06-01-2004, 01:18 PM   #1
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amanda1432 HB User
Wedding-Inspired Woes

My boyfriend and I have been together for seven months. I know realistically that he's not good for me in the long, long term (as in living together, or marriage--he has difficulty expressing his emotions, he is extremely sensitive, impatient, moody, and he needs a lot of alone time. I don't think he'd do well with children and don't want to torment myself by having any with him). However, we get along very well and I do love him and enjoy making him happy. It's not a crazy passionate I-can't-do-without-him love, but it is strong enough so that when he expresses his love for me I feel really great. I've been in relationships where I loved the other person primarily out of obligation, or guilt, and this isn't it. It's a quieter, steady, but very real feeling--I just enjoy being with him.

Anyway, we had a talk this weekend that was prompted by some bad behavior on my part. We went to his friend's wedding, and of course seeing the couple all happy with their friends toasting them made me feel sort of warm and fuzzy and thinking of marriage. I tossed off the question to him, do you ever think of marrying me? He hemmed and hawed and pretty much said no, which irritated me. I mean, I know I shouldn't marry him, but sometimes I enjoy dreaming about what our kids would be like, how it would be if we were always together, etc. Well, I had had a few glasses of wine at the wedding and commenced a fight where I said some pretty nasty things. For example, I said that he doesn't really love anyone, he just tolerates people to different degrees. I also told him I was exhausted from our relationship . These things I said are rooted in real feelings, but a lot of them came out at once and it went badly. (And they stem from the intensity of my feelings for him and the feeling that he doesn't return my feelings with equal force--frustrated love often turns to resentment, which I think is happening in this case and which manifested itself in my drunk diatribe).

The next day we had another talk where he basically told me that he didn't love me. We've been saying "I love you" since February (I said it first), but not very frequently--maybe once or twice a week. It's not something we would say to each other as a matter of course when hanging up the phone, etc. I would say it when I really felt it, such as when we were cuddling or when we were making love. Lately, however, I've felt more intensely and felt more comfortable saying it so that I felt like I was only saying it one-third of the times that I felt it. I didn't want to overwhelm him with it. He initiated saying it a few times, but I felt that as a rule I was saying it more frequently. I've noticed especially that he hasn't been saying it as much, and when I coquettishly ask, do you love me? he'll get irritated and say you can't ask someone if they love you, it's his prerogative whether he wants to say it, etc.

During our talk, he basically said that he hasn't been "ambitious" about our relationship for a few months. He said he doesn't want to move forward with anything, and not that we should regress, but he would be content keeping things exactly as they are now. I told him that I thought my feelings were stronger for him than his are for me, and he conceded this might be correct. He said of course it's impossible to know objectively, but that it's also natural during the life of a couple for one person to be more into the other one at any given time--these things run in cycles. Is this true of a healthy relationship??

There's a bit more to the story. It sounds funny (I know), but one of my boyfriend's most major problems with me is that I don't read the newspaper. He's very into politics and world events (and, in fact, his career centered on them for almost a decade) and says that one measure of intelligence is sensitivity to one's surroundings. I'm a pretty intelligent person, and he says that's one of the things he likes best about me. He gets really angry when I "play dumb" or when I ask what he considers to be stupid questions (even innocently). He repeatedly points out that I don't know anything about politics, sometimes in front of people. He says he can't imagine marrying someone who doesn't know anything about politics. I can understand such a feeling--I used to have a boyfriend who was extremely passive. He wouldn't ask for his steak to be recooked if it was underdone; he would never fight for himself for anything. It used to drive me crazy even though I really loved him and it was such a small part of his personality. So I guess I can understand that my present boyfriend has a really severe reaction to this particular deficiency. But don't you learn to look past these things when you care for someone?

Anyway, I think he's one of the most insensitive people I know when it comes to perceiving how others receive him. He doesn't understand that he comes across as patronizing and condecending to a lot of people we meet. I don't bring it up because it's just the way he is--you can't teach someone to interpret the reactions of others--it's just an innate talent he lacks, in my opinion. It used to drive me crazy, but as I fell in love with him, the importance of this flaw to me diminished accordingly. I don't know why I bring this up, it's just to illustrate that, as far as I'm concerned, when you love someone you accept certain things about them, especially when they are aspects of the other person's personality (world politics will never be a passion of mine--I enjoy ancient and modern literature, which he does not).

So, I don't know what to do. I mean, I think that we feel similarly that we will not work out in the long, long term. However, he feels like we can still have a relationship that does a lot for both of us in that it's fun and we both care for each other. However, I don't know. i'm not one of those people that thinks there is no point in dating someone if you're not going to marry them. Marriage or living together is not a goal for me right now--not at least for another 5 years. However, happiness is a goal for me. and I'm happy when I'm in a caring, emotionally committed relationship. I don't think I'll be able to be in a relationship where I love someone and am ready to be emotionally intimate with them when they do not have the same feelings for me or are not willing to express them. I don't know if the things he expressed were a result of being angry with me about the fight, or if he really just doesn't love me at all.

What do you guys think--is it good to get or remain emotionally close with someone who has expressed reservations about developing the relationship further?

 
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Old 06-01-2004, 01:37 PM   #2
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Salinas1 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Wow, you two sure play a lot of games. I guess that is one way to pass the years.

My question is why would you want to invest significant time, effort, emotion, frustration, energy on a relationship that you know is destined to end. Even the most well intended relationship can end, but yours is destined, with a capital "D", to end.

Why aren't you out there looking for someone that you don't say these things about. Why aren't you looking for that someone that you see as a legitimate life partner instead of playing with a realtionship that is over before it starts.

 
Old 06-01-2004, 01:55 PM   #3
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GirlHarley HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Amanda - sorry to be blunt here but your living in a dream world of your own making and should you continue this relationship of never never land you will never have all the things you desire.

You two are no match - He told you as well as he could so why bother continuing this relationship if that is what you want to continue to call it?

I apprecitate your honestly thru out your post, you painted a good picture of yourself and this guy and as an outsider - Listen to me and others who will plainly see what you refuse to see - He Does Not Love You and there could be no happy ending to this relationship with thoughts of you marrying him or changing him -

You have visions of marriage, this man does not. Even if you thought you could marry this guy - whatta you think he will change? You will change him?
You vision children with him? WHY? Your setting yourself up for failure instead of a successful relationship that could lead to marriage and then children - but this relationships have ALL the RED FLAGS and all your seeing is WHITE wedding bells.

Please check out many of the posts on these boards from woman who have their hearts broken that are still in deadend marriages because they did not
or could not see all the red flags as you have pointed out in your post.

 
Old 06-01-2004, 02:05 PM   #4
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eightball61 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

There are a lot of guys that don't share emotions or feelings. If you got a guy that did there would be a lot of girls calling you lucky. It is good to have someone open as you are but its hard. Its hard to communicate like this but you'll have to find ways that he be open. I use a Journal with my GF which works out well because I was the same way.


You said "However, he feels like we can still have a relationship that does a lot for both of us in that it's fun and we both care for each other." He allready said he doesn't see a future with you. If you are looking for more then just move on. This guy wants to keep you to say he has a GF and and keep your benefits....Lose the Looser

 
Old 06-01-2004, 02:13 PM   #5
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Ninispjc HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Amanda - I believe that problems can be worked out if both people really want to work them out, so I really don't say this lightly, but I do think you'd be wise to end this relationship before it gets any more painful to do so. Whether you know it or not, your confidence and self esteem are being slowly chipped away by this guy. If your ultimate goal is to be married someday, why are you wasting time with someone you know will never marry you? And more importantly, why would you want to marry him given how little you seem to have in common and how cold he can be to you? Wouldn't you love someone who, when you say "I love you", he looks into your eyes and says "I love you too, sweetie" and gives you a little kiss? If that's what you want, why not go for it? Like Susan Sarandon kept saying in Thelma and Louise, "we get what we settle for." You can't love him into loving you. Take some time to seriously consider what you want out of love, out of a relationship, be honest about how much of what you want you are actually getting from this guy. I really think you deserve better.

 
Old 06-01-2004, 10:05 PM   #6
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maybe helpful HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Whoa. It became REALLY obvious to me that you dont really know what you want out of this relationship. There were SO many contridictions in the post, and it made me question what you really felt about the relationship and this guy. For example~

"I don't think he'd do well with children and don't want to torment myself by having any with him"

Followed right up with~

"I enjoy dreaming about what our kids would be like"

I am a dreamer too, and I know its easy to get wrapped up in those thoughts. But if you are so sure you wouldnt have any with him, why entertain the fantasy?

"i'm not one of those people that thinks there is no point in dating someone if you're not going to marry them"

But one of the first things in your post is~

"I know realistically that he's not good for me in the long, long term"

And even in KNOWING these things, you still became irritated that he didnt say he wanted to marry you, when you know you dont think hes right for you.

My suggestion, or at least my opinion, was that you are really torn between what you feel, and what you know. You KNOW hes not right for you, that there would be conflicts of interest in your lives together, that there are things that you find hard to tolerate, but the more your around him, the more time you spend, the deeper your feelings become, and sometimes that takes over, doesnt it?

I would suggest taking some time to REALLY decide wether or not your head or your heart has more say in the matter. But please keep in mind, he has already acknowledged that you may feel more for him then he does for you, and thats not a good thing in a relationship. Ive been in one like that, where I felt more, and it failed. Then I was in one where HE felt more, and it failed. Now I can honestly say I am in one now that is very equal, both of us feeling the same, and it has never been better. While its true your relationship goes through times where one of you might like the other one better, or enjoy their company more, emotion should be steady. Take some time to decide what you REALLY expect from this relationship, set a goal and go for it. And if he holds you back, maybe its time to move on.

Good Luck to you.

 
Old 06-02-2004, 08:18 AM   #7
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amanda1432 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Thanks a lot for your input, everyone. This is a situation where I knew what the answer was before I even posted, and just wanted to confirm it with myself before taking the next step.

I know that I can't let myself be with him. It doesn't feel good to crave love and affection from someone and constantly be rebuffed--it's been very damaging to my ego. And it's not that he is a mean or cold person. He just doesn't feel the same way about me that I do about him, I guess.

Oh man, I'm not looking forward to the next step. I feel drained already, mentally and emotionally, and I haven't even initated the breakup sequence.

Just the thought of not having someone and starting dating again depresses me. I suppose it can't be as difficult as loving someone who doesn't love me, though.

 
Old 06-02-2004, 08:26 AM   #8
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SophiaM HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Amanda, he IS a very critical and cold person. You sound so intelligent and it shows in your writing, and yet he constantly belittles you because you don't know as much as he'd like you to know about world politics! This is ridiculous. You're not putting him down for his lack of knowledge about world literature, as you pointed out in your post. You might think it's a detail, but I bet he is critical of you in a lot of other "insignificant" areas as well. Such people are toxic, no-one is ever good enough for them and they make you feel horrible about yourself. I once had this boyfriend who was constantly criticizing me and calling me a failure because I didn't go to an ivy league college. I went to a decent college, paying for it myself, working full time while attending classes, and I graduated with honors. Yet, to him, I was not smart enough, because my college was not Harvard. Not that he went to Harvard himself, mind you. Get rid of this loser. There's got to be a better guy out there for you!

 
Old 06-02-2004, 08:57 AM   #9
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eightball61 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanda1432

Just the thought of not having someone and starting dating again depresses me. I suppose it can't be as difficult as loving someone who doesn't love me, though.

Starting over can be depressing but do you want to be depressed in this relationship?

You shouldn't be in a relationship if someone doesn't love you back. It is very difficult to progress things into the future not having someone love you. Things are justr going to be set up for failure if you don''t do someone about it know because if you go on with a future with this guy things will probablly end. Don't waste your life and look for happiness.

 
Old 06-02-2004, 10:16 AM   #10
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GirlHarley HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Why do people think that starting over is depressing or that it has to be depressing and lonely?
My god…Why can’t you think of it as Exciting?
Exciting knowing that you don’t have to beg someone for love, beg for attention, having someone embarrass you …..That is depressing – and That is lonely and that is with being with someone…

A life alone is not depressing unless you allow it to be. Keep thinking Negative and that is what you will become –
Think positive and that is what you will / not only become / but attract.

Enjoy single hood, Embrace it, and if a relationship is what you want that is what you’ll get once you know what You Don’t want….

 
Old 06-02-2004, 10:40 AM   #11
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eightball61 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlHarley
Why do people think that starting over is depressing or that it has to be depressing and lonely?

It can be depressing if you were really involved in that person that you were in a relationship with. If my GF just broke up with me out of the blue I wouldn't be happy I would be feeling down.

Yes, people people do heal differently but the ones that are happy to start over are those that weren't involved in the relationship that much. Its good to get over things and not dread on them but it can be hard sometimes.

Some people denicate many years with a person and when all fails they fear they have no place to go and they can't maintain it all on thier on. People can get over these humps but they have to be strong and no sob forever.

Thats my view to that question.

 
Old 06-02-2004, 01:43 PM   #12
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Salinas1 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlHarley
A life alone is not depressing unless you allow it to be. Keep thinking Negative and that is what you will become –
Think positive and that is what you will / not only become / but attract.
….
Tell it, GH, tell it!

 
Old 06-02-2004, 06:57 PM   #13
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SophiaM HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlHarley
Why do people think that starting over is depressing or that it has to be depressing and lonely?
My god…Why can’t you think of it as Exciting?
Exciting knowing that you don’t have to beg someone for love, beg for attention, having someone embarrass you …..That is depressing – and That is lonely and that is with being with someone…

A life alone is not depressing unless you allow it to be. Keep thinking Negative and that is what you will become –
Think positive and that is what you will / not only become / but attract.

Enjoy single hood, Embrace it, and if a relationship is what you want that is what you’ll get once you know what You Don’t want….
It sounds like a paradox, but many times it's true. Thinking negatively has never ever helped me attract anything or anyone good into my life. Yup, usually when I'm in that mode, I notice more and more obstacles arise, to magnify my frustration. However, when I'm relaxed and content, things seem to go smoothly without much effort. Hmmmm.....

 
Old 06-03-2004, 07:47 AM   #14
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eightball61 HB User
Re: Wedding-Inspired Woes

[QUOTE=SophiaM] Thinking negatively has never ever helped me attract anything or anyone good into my life. QUOTE]


I hate thinking negativiley and hate being around people that are this way. People who are negative just bring down my self esteem and I hate feeling down. Its good to know that here and there are some people in this world that are very posaitive....Thanks guys

Just needed to add that

 
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