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Old 08-27-2005, 02:58 PM   #1
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Hiya HB User
Should I say something?

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this, but I just wanted to get some feedback, although it probably won't change my mind. maybe I'm looking for some validation or just to vent, I don't know, but anyway...

Some of you may know about a male friend of mine who has periodically been a "friend with benefits" to a degree, though I've madeup my mind that part's over. But even though I guess I still want him as a friend, I don't really feel like he treats me or sees me as friend. i.e. he never calls just to say hi or never wants to really talk to me when I call just to see how he's doing. The only time he ever calls me is when he needs a favor or something. And when we do talk, he is rather crude, asking me perverted questions and being sexually crass. I guess I set myself up for this by the "benefits" but he knows I'm a good girl and don't that with just anyone, and that I only fooled around with him because I was just trying anything I could think of the numb this blinding, soul crushing pain I feel over my ex every day. So I feel sort of like a hypocrite by taking a stand now, but I really feel I deserve to be treated with more respect than that. I want to put my foot down and tell him I don't want to be spoken to like that anymore, but I know he'll just say he's only kidding and I need to lighten up and get a sense of humor. The thing that makes it worse is that there's this pretty young blond girl, a friend of his, actually she's the girlfriend of a friend and client of his, that he's hot for. He's told me he's frustrated and that she "scares" him because he likes her so much but he feels he can't trust her because she confided in him as a friend about troubles she's having with her boyfriend, his friend and client, and then didn't leave him. He still flirts with her really heavily, whispering in her ear, tickling her bare tummy, etc. and is upset because she hasn't left his friend and client. But I know he doesnt' speak to her like that. Of course they havent' been intimate at all, even though they've slept in the same bed, but didn't do anything because of her boyfriend.

It's not that I'm jealous. I have absolutely no desire for a romantic relationship with this guy, and I certainly never made any promises so I'm not making any demands. He's free to date, sleep with, fall in love with whomever he wants. I just don't know why it's so hard for people to treat me with any kind of respect when I see those same people bend over backwards to treat other people with all kinds of kindness and respect. This plus the fact that when he goes off on his rants about his church and God, and because I worship my own way in my own Catholic church and have my own views, he says I'm selfish, ignorant, blind, etc because I don't experience and worship God the exact same way he does.

At this point, it doesn't look like I'll ever be talking to him again, but if I do, I want to tell him to stop talking to me that way, but I just hate the idea of having to kick yet another person out of my life. It's getting to the point where I feel like maybe i'm such a stupid, annoying, terrible person that I don't deserve to have any people who genuinely care about me in my life and I'm just destined to live my whole life alone and miserable only having shallow, emotionally unsatisfying acquaintance-ships that never go beyond polite small talk and never establish true emotional intimacy with anyone ever again. I feel just like the character Janice in Friends, except I unfortunately don't have the blessing of ignorance that she had. I mean, what if she suddenly became aware of how Chandler and the gang really truly felt about her all along? And what if she never found any other people who liked or treated her any better than they did? How easy would it be for her to go on with her head held up?

Last edited by Hiya; 08-28-2005 at 07:00 PM.

 
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:42 PM   #2
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Re: Should I say something?

Hiya ~ Should you say something....YES!!! You know around here sometimes you just have to say it like it is......and this is just one of those times. The only reason that this guy treats you this way is because you allow him to. If he was a man who really was religious he wouldn't take advantage of your pain and further hurt you, he wouldn't talk to you in a crude and disrespectful way, and he wouldn't be pursuing another woman who has a boyfriend by sleeping in the same bed as her.

For some time I have told you that this guy only further diminishes your self esteem. In order to have any chance of restoring it you need to be able to show yourself respect. The first step is by telling this guy quite clearly that you do not wish to hear any of his crude or perverted remarks/questions. The next time he crosses that line you state quite clearly that you do not wish to continue the conversation and to only call when he can addressyou in the respectful manner in which you deserve. And then hang up. After a few times of this he will get the message that you mean business and will talk to you in the way in which you deserve to be spoken to.

I have a feeling that you're just going to have to give up this friendship. It is no good for you and obviously just leads you to feel badly towards yourself. You deserve to be around people who make you feel good about yourself.

What ever happened with the lady at work who invited you out for Karaoke??? And what about the married man who was going to look for a nice guy for you??? I would focus my efforts on that rather than this guy who obviously has nothing really good to offer you. You deserve better.

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody

Last edited by goody2shuz; 08-28-2005 at 09:14 AM.

 
Old 08-28-2005, 06:57 AM   #3
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Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiya
But even though I guess I still want him as a friend, I don't really feel like he treats me or sees me as friend. i.e. he never calls just to say hi or never wants to really talk to me when I call just to see how he's doing. The only time he ever calls me is when he needs a favor or something. And when we do talk, he is rather crude, asking me perverted questions and being sexually crass. I guess I set myself up for this by the "benefits" but he knows I'm a good girl and don't that with just anyone, and that I only fooled around with him because I was just trying anything I could think of the numb this blinding, soul crushing pain I feel over my ex every day. So I feel sort of like a hypocrite by taking a stand now, but I really feel I deserve to be treated with more respect than that. I want to put my foot down and tell him I don't want to be spoken to like that anymore, but I know he'll just say he's only kidding and I need to lighten up and get a sense of humor.
Hi Hiya, I'm really sorry to hear this is causing you stress and unhappiness. I can remember numerous other occasions where this FFWB has aroused a similar reaction in you, when you have been pretty sure you were no longer going maintain a relationship with him. I've always believed that if someone you know has more of an overall negative than positive impact on you, it's best to cut ties and move on without them in their life. It doesn't seem that your FFWB brings much of anything to your life other than reminding you of your ex, chastising you for not being over your ex, asking you for favors, and generally making you feel used, unappreciated, and sad. So I'm inclined to say that this should be the time you stick to your urge to cut him out of your life for good, but of course that's easier for me to say than you to follow through on, and I can certainly understand your reluctance to cut ties to one of the few people you consider a real-life friend. The best advice I can give you as far as how to proceed with FFWB is to think back on how he's effected your life both positively and negatively and evaluate which category dominates, then go with your gut in deciding how to handle him in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiya
It's not that I'm jealous. I have absolutely no desire for a romantic relationship with this guy, and I certainly never made any promises so I'm not making any demands. He's free to date, sleep with, fall in love with whomever he wants. I just don't know why it's so hard for people to treat me with any kind of respect when I see those same people bend over backwards to treat other people with all kinds of kindness and respect. This plus the fact that when he goes off on his rants about his church and God, and because I worship my own way in my own Catholic church and have my own views, he says I'm selfish, ignorant, blind, etc because I don't experience and worship God the exact same way he does.
Iím not quite sure I understand what his new crush has to do with your feelings toward him. I could see if he was sleeping with her with no regard for her boyfriendís feelings, but he seems to be restraining himself from crossing any really inappropriate line. She is the one whose behavior would bother me if I was in your position, but itís not uncommon that people get caught in between two potential love interests without being able to make any immediate, firm decisions and follow through on their choice. Iím not proud to say Iíve found myself in her situation several times in the past, but I donít think it makes either her or your FFWB so despicable that it should play a role in your considerations of whether you want him to continue to be part of your life.

You are well aware of how I feel about religion, and one of the main reasons I vigilantly avoid religious people is because I hate the way they assume that everything they believe is 100% correct and that anyone who disagrees with them on any point is not just wrong, but intellectually and morally inferior. I have yet to encounter a religion that doesnít encourage its followers to assume that they are right in everything they believe and that everyone who sees things differently is blind and ignorant. Because of this attitude on the part of religion and religious followers, the world has a long history of war, genocide, torture, and prejudiceÖand on a smaller scale, the vast majority of ignorance, hatred, and discrimination Iíve seen and learned about has stemmed from religious differences. Because of this and the moral intolerance and hypocrisy religion inculcates in its believers, Iíve made a concerted effort to limit my relationships and friendships to those who donít subscribe to what I consider to be ridiculous and illogical religious belief systems. Both because I save my intellectual respect for people who view the world through a lens of reason and logic and because Iíve found atheists and agnostics to be more accepting than religious people, Iíve been very firm about avoiding all but a select few unusually tolerant, open-minded, and intelligent religious people as friends and boyfriends.

This choice has served me extremely well throughout my life, because with very few exceptions (all involving girls who were more religious than I would have liked), Iíve had no relationships with people who were selfish, disrespectful, insincere, hypocritical, judgmental, dishonest. I consider myself very fortunate never to have had a boyfriend deceive me or hurt me or to part with any as anything other than friends with a great deal of mutual respect and affection. So, Iíd suggest keeping this in mind when considering whether a potential friend or romantic interest is likely to have a good or bad impact on your life and self-esteem. I really donít think your FFWB has had a positive effect on you, in part because his religious beliefs seem to get in the way of him treating you with respect and consideration. They also seem to play a role in his self-centered way of treating (or more accurately, using) his friends nicely only when he wants or needs something from themÖthis is not the kind of person you need in your life particularly when youíre feeling vulnerable and want friends who will be understanding and supportive no matter what youíre going through. If I were you, I would tell him that youíd prefer to move on with your life without him in itÖall he seems to do is remind you of your ex, make you feel used, disrespected, and discarded. There are good people out there who would never treat their so-called friends in such a selfish, rude mannerÖyouíre a lot more likely to find these friends if you steer clear of religious people, which will also screen out a lot of people with ignorant, bigoted, and backwards political views which donít mesh well with yours. Some of the kindest, most accepting and genuine people Iíve encountered were introduced to me through liberal causes, and working for such causes allowed me both to meet great, caring, intelligent people AND simultaneously fight to save this country from the increasingly radical fundamentalist, hate-fueled, intolerant, repressive, bigoted extreme right-wing controlled society and political system.

You could feel good about yourself trying to save women, minorities, children, and our environment from being marginalized and subordinated and at the same time, I bet youíd be able to make some really wonderful friends who share your views and priorities if you looked into volunteering for environmental, anti-poverty, or womenís rights groups (especially those which battle domestic violence, combat evil anti-choice/anti-womenís rights fanatics, supporters of better health care and education for women and families, etc.). You could definitely hold your head up high if you got involved in important causes, were able to reach out and make a difference, and also meet accepting and caring people who arenít afraid of emotional intimacy and forming loving and open relationships with people outside their families and religious circles. Anyway, the best advice I can give you is to avoid intolerant, conservative religious nuts like your ex and seek out relationships with people who are his polar opposites in terms of their views and outlook towards people who arenít exactly like them. What do your instincts tell you to do about your FFWB? Would you be happier and more optimistic with or without him in your life?

 
Old 08-28-2005, 08:44 AM   #4
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netle HB User
Re: Should I say something?

When you don't have respect for yourself, people don't have respect for you. There are some people who can pick up on this weakness. They know how to take advantage of people who don't think they deserve any better. It souds like you've been attracting a lot of these people in your life.

I am sure it angers you that he treats this girl with more respect than he ever has with you. And the fact that she doesn't realize what kind of "pervert" he is probably gets under your skin as well.

Definitely speak up for yourself and put your foot down. I don't believe this is a healthy friendship and it's probably much better to kick him out of your life altogether but you should at least let your feelings be known.

In the meantime I think you should really learn to like and respect yourself. Do things that are good for you so that when you're ready to make new friends and relationships, it will be with people who respond to you in a positive way rather than those who merely want to use you.

 
Old 08-28-2005, 04:52 PM   #5
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Hiya HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesgirl37
Iím not quite sure I understand what his new crush has to do with your feelings toward him. I could see if he was sleeping with her with no regard for her boyfriendís feelings, but he seems to be restraining himself from crossing any really inappropriate line.

What do your instincts tell you to do about your FFWB? Would you be happier and more optimistic with or without him in your life?
Well, EG, knowing him, the only reason he hasn't slept with her yet is because she hasn't allowed it to happen yet. He really doesn't have any restraint when it comes to that area. He's always found me attractive and even put moves on me when I was seeing me ex, once when my ex (his friend, roommate and bandmate, by the way) was in the next room. It just irks me that he treats her liek she's an angel and treats me like I'm a filthy little strumpet on the side, and that's not what I am at all.

My instincts, I don't know. My instincts tell me that every time I stand up for myself or make a stand or say "don't treat me that way" without fail, 100% of the time, it results in my getting hurt worse or losing that person from my life. I have never once experienced self respect resulting in other people gaining respect for me. That has never happened for me, even once. So my gut instincts tell me that I was most likely destined to be alone for the duration of my life, and that I will never meet anyone that wants to be around me just to be around me. Not in a really intimate way, like I said before. To answer Goody's question, yes I went out with my work collegue and her friend to do some karaoke. It was nice. We made small talk, laughed a little, we each sang a song, then went home. But that's not what I consider a real relationship, that's an acquaintance. I seriously doubt that I will ever have a real "friend' ever again, no matter how much self respect I have or don't have. It just doesn't seem to matter. But I don't intent to call him again. His teasing, though he insists is all in good fun, sometimes even takes on a mean tone. I half jokingly asked him once why he's so mean to me sometimes, and he never answered. Just looked down, smiled and changed the subject.

I do tend to agree with you EG about most religious people. It's funny, but most of the nicest people I've met in my life, the ones that were kindest to me and never ended up hurting me, were those who were more on the liberal end of the spectrum. But again, that's why I feel pretty convinced I dont' have a soul mate waiting for me out there somewhere. I firmly believe in God and am a fairly good Catholic, though I dont' attend regularly anymore, but don't subscribe to all the tenants, and politically am pretty liberal. Yes, I've volunteered for various causes over the last couple of years, raising funds for animals, playing at a benefit to raise money for a family who lost their young son in a drowning accident, and other things, but again, never meet anyone where it goes beyond polite small talk. I know it must be me, something I'm doing or not doing, but if I still can't get it right enough at this stage of my life to even make one friend that wants to hang out with me, then it's most likely something that's too screwed up for me to ever fix. But I've decided to not call this guy again. Right now I don't even feel like speaking to him. I don't what I'll do if he should call me, which I'm sure he won't do until he needs something, a babysitter, a ride, money, or something. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 
Old 08-28-2005, 05:36 PM   #6
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Re: Should I say something?

Hiya ,

I'm so sorry you're feeling glum, sweetie. I really hope you are wrong and that some wonderful people who will treat you with care, love, and respect come into your life very soon. It sounds like you had fun with your friend from work at kareoke, so hopefully you can maintain that relationship and if you continue to hang out and do things together, who knows? Deep friendships don't happen overnight, in my experience they involve finding someone with similar interests whose company you enjoy and making a consistent effort to spend time together. I know you haven't had good experiences with making friends in the past, but from what's happened recently, it does seem like people are attracted to you and want to spend time in your presence, so please don't give up hope. And also, please don't get discouraged if you don't get a call back or a positive response sometimes...if everyone assumed someone didn't want to be their friend when something like that happened, no one would have any friends. But when your mindset is that you're not likely to ever have a true friend, it's easy to interpret little lapses on the parts of would-be friends as confirmation that they don't really like you. So please try to give people the benefit of the doubt and don't be afraid to make an effort over and over when you find someone you like. That polite small talk CAN and will turn into friendships for you if you make a concerted effort to pursue the relationship...of course your kareoke friend is just an acquaintance now, you've only hung out a few times! You can't expect too much without giving it plenty of time. I don't think your problem is people not liking you, I think you might be expecting too much too soon and since you deep down believe people won't really like you, you might be giving up too easily when in reality you could have developed a good friendship if you'd been more patient, more optimistic, had a thicker skin, and persisted even when you felt like they weren't interested, because more often than not signs like that aren't intentional or personal. Remember that thinking negative really can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but believing that you will succeed in forming lasting, deep relationships given enough patience and effort will also come true if you just keep the faith! Just keep asking people to hang out and do stuff, even if they are busy sometimes or forget to call you back, and sooner or later one of the people who wants to hang out with you will become a true friend. I have a good feeling about your kareoke friend from work, so try and keep your hopes up and see what happens with her, OK? Think about how much we like you here...it's just impossible for me to believe no one would find you as caring, intelligent, interesting and thoughtful as we do here . I think you're right to ditch the FFWB once and for all, as he seems to do nothing but make you feel sad, used, and bad about yourself. About women and men, it's an interesting topic, and you might very well be right...I guess there's really no way to know, and it probably varies not just from person to person but from relationship to relationship. I agree that in almost every relationship, one person tends to care more and can therefore be more hurt when it ends, except when that person has seen the end coming for awhile and had time to get used to it, as has happened to me in the past. I wonder if part of it is that it's more socially acceptable for women to be expressive with their pain when dumped and that's part of why we see them as more hurt by breakups...if you think of all the men here who are devestated and crushed by women leaving, I'd say that it's fair to say both sexes are affected deeply in many circumstances. Anyway, it's always fascinating to hear your take on things, and I hope your spirits are a little higher this week. Please hang in there, try to stay positive, and focus on the happy things in life, no matter how small...and also don't be so quick to give up hope of a friendship developing. Good relationships take lots of time, faith, patience, and effort...while other people's friendships may seem easy and effortless, they took more time and energy to develop than you might realize. So while your kareoke buddy isn't a friend yet, there's no reason she can't become one in time! And if not, at least you'll have someone to go out to bars, dinner, movies, etc. with, which you've said you've wanted for some time. I think you should be happy about getting to know her rather than assume it won't go past polite small talk. And try to keep putting yourself out there to meet open-minded and accepting people--are you still volunteering? Is there a cause you'd like to get involved with again or try out? Maybe your friend from work would like to help at a shelter or visit elderly people with you?

 
Old 08-28-2005, 06:00 PM   #7
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Hiya HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesgirl37
Hiya ,

And try to keep putting yourself out there to meet open-minded and accepting people--are you still volunteering? Is there a cause you'd like to get involved with again or try out? Maybe your friend from work would like to help at a shelter or visit elderly people with you?
Well, we used to play at retirement centers before my work schedule changed, so I can't do that anymore. But maybe other opportunities will pop up. We'll see. Thanks for yolur input and support. I guess I'm just vey impatient because I'm just so tired of feeling like this. Every day it takes a little bit more out of me and it's getting to the point where I'm starting to, not really screw up at work, but just not as sharp and "on" at my job, and I just can't care like I should. I feel so stupid, so emotionally needy, like "somebody please love me!!" but that's actually kind of the situation! I just don't know how much longer I can handle being so alone and so unloved without totally going off the deep end. Plus my experiences with the "ex" and my old best friend and the FFWB has sort of given me a love/hate thing with people. I desperately need human comanionship, but at the same time, I have a lot of pent up resentment and anger toward the human race in general. There are still individuals that I love and care for like family and work people and all you guys here, but generally, it's hard not to harbor some ill will very generally speaking. Not good. All the childhood junk aside, because I think I've dealt with as best I can, and that's ancient history, but back to the ex AGAIN, how dishonest he was and how he would scrutinize and criticize everything from my cooking to my musicianship to my dancing (I've won contests but he said I looked silly, "bobbing up and down") and then frowned at me, sucked his teeth and said "why are you like that?!" when I exhibited insecurity. I don't understand how someone who calls himself a Christian can willfully, knowingly wreck a fellow human being like that. And he was my last hope, the one I was counting on to show me I was worth loving, deserving of admiration, affection and companionship and some semblance of normalcy.

Last edited by Hiya; 08-28-2005 at 06:05 PM.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 12:51 AM   #8
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Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiya
he was my last hope, the one I was counting on to show me I was worth loving, deserving of admiration, affection and companionship and some semblance of normalcy.
Okay Hiya, something is really really wrong with this last statement of yours.... can you see how wrong it is??? Maybe that is all your ex really was to you... he was NOT the love of your life or even a love of your life... it seems he merely was a representation and manifestation of Hiya's "hope" come to life- in the flesh, speaking, talking, carrying on a life of its own- you saw him not for who he was but what he represented... and that is as you put it - hope. And thats why it seems you are still clinging to him... because he still represents that hope in your life that one day you will be loved and cared for and socially accepted, I dont believe you are hanging on to him because you loved him or he hurt you, but just for the reason I stated. Okay, I hope I am not sounding too nutty, but I hope, okay now I am hopeing that you will snap out of this trance that you are in... and somehow gather the courage to turn that hope you enlisted your ex to carry for you over to its rightful owner- YOU. You can hope, we all hope, to be loved and socially accepted and when you do that I think you will start taking more responsibitly for creating your own happiness and not looking to your ex for it. So Hiya- You will be the rightful owner of "hope"... and as the rightful owner of anything, it will be YOUR responsiblity to see that hope gets the nourishment, and cultivation from you it needs to grow into something promising and rewarding. You can start cultivating hope by calling that new friend of yours and asking her if she would like to go out again - this time maybe just the two of you - maybe to a comedy club or dinner and a movie. Hows that for hopes first baby steps provided to him by his new and rightful owner, Hiya?

Last edited by soulster; 08-30-2005 at 12:55 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 01:47 AM   #9
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Re: Should I say something?

Hi Nini, I think Soulsterís insightful post could not be more accurate and that she has stumbled across a really key point you seem to be missing in your memories and conception of your ex which Iíve been trying to precisely pin down and put my finger on ever since I first heard all the details of your story. I have often wondered why time and time again, you mention your ex in every single post in which you describe how you are feeling about things. You seem to see him as the embodiment of all the qualities you have longed for so long in both friends and a lover even though he quite frankly seems to lack much of any desirable traits. He was pathetically and pitifully insecure, hypocritical, judgmental, delusional, selfish, self-absorbed, mean, insensitive, uncaring, borderline abusive when deep down heís a weak and insecure man who spends his life either manipulating and making nice women miserable or letting some aggressive woman dominate and manipulate him. I really donít understand how you can associate him with everything good about love and friendship when in actuality he lacked just about every commendable quality weíd look for in a person we care for deeply. But I wonder if your deep-seated sadness and heartbreak over what your ex represented is not in spite of all his failings as we've tended to assume, but instead precisely BECAUSE he represented all your hopes for men and love yet ended up disappointing both of your ideals in this respect so completely and irrepairably.

No wonder you feel angry and frustrated that things worked out the way they did with your ex--could it be at least in part because he represented your hopes and let both you and himself down in ways too deep and complex for you to have fully considered and acknowledged up until this point? You associate your ex with all the wonderful qualities you dreamed of in your ideal man, yet he ended up failing to live up to each and every admirable trait you envisioned him possessing and every standard of decency and consideration you held him up to. No wonder you still have such a hard time admitting and accepting what a compete failure that he and by proxy, your hopes for your ideal man, has become in turning his back, one by one, on all his professed rigid and impossibly strict ideals. I can understand why having such a man in your past has made you extremely frustrated, angry, and bitter at the human race in general, for he seems to have disappointed you and failed to live up to your vision of him just as other people youíve known have consistently let you down and failed to fulfill your expectations of how decent, caring people should treat the people who play important roles in their lives.

As I mentioned in my other post to you from this evening, one thing I am extremely pleased to see is no comments along the lines that you ex had the potential to be your dream man and build a wonderfully fulfilling, lifelong partnership and family with you, but that you somehow blew it. I really, really hope you can see just how backwards you had things when you advanced that assertion: you are not the one who failed in your responsibility as a decent, loving person. On the contrary, you did everything within your power to be kind, understanding, caring, and forgiving towards him while all he did was let you down time and time again by failing to live up to the standards you envisaged for a loving boyfriend and also falling short of the ridiculously rigid, hypocritical standards he set for himself. His bitterness and disappointment at his own failures and shortcomings clearly made him an angry, miserable, self-loathing man who vented his frustration and rage at the only nearby target, who just happened to be an incredibly loving, sensitive, and emotionally vulnerable woman who would have great difficulty ever recovering from the disrespectful and shameful treatment he showed you. Now instead of his insecurity and self-loathing manifesting itself as cruel intolerance toward you, who was kind, patient, and forgiving enough to put up with it, it vents itself as masochism as he allows himself to be constantly bullied, manipulated, and humiliated by his domineering, overbearing wife.

Please try to look at this man objectively, as an entity separate from all the sadness and disappointment with which he is inextricably intertwined in your mind: you torment yourself by imagining that he has a happy, ideal family life these days, but in all likelihood, he is every bit as miserable and insecure as ever. Weíre talking about a man who tormented you and himself by holding your relationship up to some ludicrously rigid standard which he must realize he has failed to live up to in the most hypocritical and pathetically cowardly way imaginable. All his lofty ideals have been tossed aside and for what? A life of being bossed around, disrespected, and emasculated by a mean woman? It sounds like his dysfunctional, unhealthy childhood gave him only the most warped and despicable model of adult relationships to follow: either he needs to be in the role of the cruel, selfish abuser his father took, as he was with you, or he has to conform to the self-loathing, cowardly victim role his long-suffering, spineless mother played throughout his formative years. Honestly, he sounds like a really screwed up, pitiful, and miserable human being who would have made your life even more miserable than itís been without him if you allowed him to keep methodically chiseling away at your self-esteem and self-respect through his rude, disrespectful, and increasingly abusive and dismissive treatment of you. And now he is playing that same role by letting his wife trample all over whatever dignity and self-respect he once possessed, undoubtedly filled with disappointment and self-loathiing over how much he has compromised and outright failed to uphold the ideals he always upheld with such an exaggerated sense of self-importance along with a healthy dose of condescension and contempt for anyone who didnít agree.

Just imagine how miserable he is now that he has turned all that vicious, impassioned loathing on himself for being a spineless hypocrite and abandoning all his ideals only to ordered around and humiliated on a daily basis by an outspoken, domineering elephant. Now he has become the kind of cowardly, hypocritical, weak and spineless man he always overcompensated in an effort to avoid becoming becomeÖNini, I donít care how unhappy and unfulfilled you are in your life, I think your ex is even more miserable and tormented by self-hatred than you an imagine, and I really hope you stop subscribing to the ridiculous idea that heís living a happy, fulfilling, and satisfying life now that heís moved on without you. You are better off alone than he is letting some elephant trample all over his masculinity and dignity, and self-worth; I bet he is nothing more today than a broken shell of a man with little concept of what a healthy, empowering relationship would feel like, and even less memory of what it was like to have any dignity, ideals, and confidence. As hard as this might be for you to conceive, I have little doubt that you came out with the better end of the bargain following your split, as it is always better to at least be free and unattached rather than have your self-worth ground further and further into the dust each and every day by a domineering woman who humiliates and emasculates him at every turn. Considering what a big fuss he made over his rigid and radical religious and societal ideals, he must be absolutely ashamed to be crawling around kissing an elephantís butt as he veers further and further off the course of the beliefs he made such a pretense of adhering to at all costs. Nini, this man never had any healthy models of how a mature and equal adult relationship should be conducted; the only relationships he knows are those in which one partner systematically crushes the otherís dignity, self-respect, and any resistance whatsoever.

You did not blow your once chance at happiness by not ending up as his wife; if anything, I firmly believe that you saved yourself from a life of abuse, repression, and humiliation he would have inflicted on you if he had the confidence to play the domineering, rather than the masochistic and submissive role he so admired in his long-suffering, victimized martyr of a mother throughout his formative years. Today you are a strong, empowered, independently successful woman while he is a broken, pitiful man enveloped more each day with contempt for the man he has become despite all his desperate attempts to overcompensate by veering so far in the opposite direction before settling into the role of the helpless, pathetic martyr he always so valued, cherished, and respected in his mother. You are so much better off than he is; I have always known that intuitively but it is only after reading Soulsterís perceptive and incisive assessment that I have been able to pinpoint the specifics of how his life became so miserable and veered so far off the extreme, backwards, and traditional course he always clung to with such desperation. Please read and carefully absorb soulsterís wise counsel and along with your past posts and all the advice youíve received from other posters and give serious consideration to whether what I have said could perhaps incude many kernals of truthÖI think you know deep down your ex must be miserable and humiliated that his life has deviated so drastically from the ideals he used to cling to so stubbornly with more than a hint of desperation and overcompensation.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 06:04 AM   #10
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goody2shuz HB Usergoody2shuz HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiya
......but back to the ex AGAIN, how dishonest he was and how he would scrutinize and criticize everything from my cooking to my musicianship to my dancing (I've won contests but he said I looked silly, "bobbing up and down") and then frowned at me, sucked his teeth and said "why are you like that?!" when I exhibited insecurity. I don't understand how someone who calls himself a Christian can willfully, knowingly wreck a fellow human being like that. And he was my last hope, the one I was counting on to show me I was worth loving, deserving of admiration, affection and companionship and some semblance of normalcy.
Exactly what kind of hope were you hoping to get from a guy like this, a guy who puts you down, a guy who wouldn't accept you for the beautuiful dancer, singer and person that you are???? Nini, what hope is there in finding that in a person who is so incapable of giving you the things that you so need....the love, companionship, admiraton and normalcy that you need in your life!!! What exactly is normal about him??? How was what he said to you and showed you anything normal in life??? If anything it speaks volumes of abuse, neglect, self centeredness and everything that you DO NOT need in your life. Why would you base your everything on your ex who was incapable of giving you anything that you ever needed??

Soulster's post says exactly what you need to hear, Nini, and what many who care about you here have been telling you for some time now. The HOPE you are looking for lies within YOU not your EX!!! You have been looking for something that you never had and never will get from HIM and can only get from yourself, only as an abused person you have sacrificed your self for somebody who doesn't even deserve it!!! I KNOW Nini, because I have been there. You need to look within and grasp at the little bit of hope you still have left and rebuild upon it. Do not see or equate every single person to your EX.....start looking at the good in life the good in you so that you can restore the hope that you have lost and sacrificed by loving someone who was not deserving of that love. PLEASE do not give up HOPE.....instead look for it once again but in the right place!!!

Start off by looking in the mirror and telling yourself that you are a beautiful person, who's a wonderful cook, dancer and singer. Who possesses great talent, and yes who can also be insecure at times like we all tend to be, but is alright and beautiful just the same. But most of all that you are a person deserving of love, companionship and hope for finding those same qulaities with another person.

You can do it, Nini, but the only way to do so is to give up hoping that you will ever find it in your EX but within yourself instead. You have been looking in the wrong direction and it is about time you look in the right one. Do not be afraid....your friends are here to show you the way.

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody

Last edited by goody2shuz; 08-30-2005 at 06:08 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 10:56 AM   #11
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Hiya HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Thanks soulster, EG and Goody. EG, you always give a person a lot to think about!! Wheeeww! I think you may be right, though I really don't know. I guess I figure because it was so easy for him to walk away from me, that he would never marry someone he didn't really love. I mean, all I really have to go on is what the mutual friend/FFWB has said, and he's hardly the most sensitive, observant person in the world. He could have it all wrong, and besides, it's really none of my business. All I need to know is he made her his wife and partner, not me, and when the FFWB told him I was in crisis and would he be willing to just sit down and talk with me to see if I could get some closure, he couldn't be bothered. That's all I know for sure, and I guess that's all I need to know. I have to assume she just had qualities I didn't. She's probably a republican, and agrees with him other issues where we sort of butted heads, like legalized abortion, homosexuality, women in the military, and things like that. Plus, since she was divorced and sexually active since at least the age of 19, she was probably much more exciting in bed than me, and I think he always did need a "take care of things" kind of woman, the type who didn't mind being responsible for bringing the sunscreen, blankets, towels, hand wipes, everything to the pool/beach and all he has to do is show up. At least at the time, I wasn't that kind of woman. I wanted a man who was a little more "take charge" as well. I wish that made it hurt less, don't really know why it doesn't.

Even though my head probably knows he wasn't good for me, my heart will always ache for him, for the moments he was kind and sweet to me, the moments in his arms or holding his hand and finally feeling for the first time in my life like I actually belonged here on this planet. The truth is, I'm just so lonely it's unbearable. I don't really bother looking inward anymore for answers, because let's be real, loneliness is the one thing you can't cure by yourself. But thanks for all your support. I know I talk a lot about this one incident a lot in my posts to other people, but it being my one and only experience with love and romance in any way shape or form, it's all I have to go on, but I do see other women going through the same thing, and I just hope I can put it to use somehow by helping younger girls avoid the pitfalls I landed in.

Last edited by Hiya; 08-30-2005 at 11:02 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 01:49 PM   #12
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evy38 HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Hiya,
You are right on the mark. You have every right to call your friend on his behavior. Unless you enjoy dirty talk, and have done so with him in the past, he has no reason to believe you would enjoy his manner of speaking. I think calling him on it, in whatever way you are comfortable, would be a very good step for you.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 01:59 PM   #13
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Hiya HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evy38
Hiya,
You are right on the mark. You have every right to call your friend on his behavior. Unless you enjoy dirty talk, and have done so with him in the past, he has no reason to believe you would enjoy his manner of speaking. I think calling him on it, in whatever way you are comfortable, would be a very good step for you.
Yes, I think you're right, no matter what the consequences would be. Although it would make me sad to have yet another person walk out of my life, no matter how big a jerk, I must admit it was actually a bit thrilling when I called him on the grabbing my steering wheel while I was driving thing. And I managed to do it without being whiny, weepy, bit**y or anything, just firm and no-nonsense, and it worked! Ok, so that's one for Hiya. So maybe it will work again.

 
Old 08-30-2005, 02:34 PM   #14
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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evy38 HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiya
Yes, I think you're right, no matter what the consequences would be. Although it would make me sad to have yet another person walk out of my life, no matter how big a jerk, I must admit it was actually a bit thrilling when I called him on the grabbing my steering wheel while I was driving thing. And I managed to do it without being whiny, weepy, bit**y or anything, just firm and no-nonsense, and it worked! Ok, so that's one for Hiya. So maybe it will work again.
I agree, taking control, when necessary, is a real kick. It makes you feel right and strong and in control, at a time you are feeling like you have no control.

 
Old 08-31-2005, 03:44 PM   #15
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eaglesgirl37 HB User
Re: Should I say something?

Hiya, just wondering if you've talked to him or anything since you last posted? I remember you telling us about finally standing up for yourself and calling him on being such a jerk and not heeding your repeated polite requests. Some people are just really clueless and need you to be completely blunt and straightforward with them. Quite frankly, while I know it's sad to watch someone walk out of your life, I think it would be really good for you to cut him off and have that much less connection to your ex and all the emotions associated with all that pain and heartbreak. I definitely think it would be a good thing for you to take a stand and demonstrate (to yourself more than anyone) that you love yourself and you are done with letting anyone treat you as if they don't love and respect you. I think Goody's advice was awesome and that it might help to think of your relationship with your ex as abusive, since it had as much of a destructive effect on you as any abusive relationship I've ever heard of. And Nini, I feel really bad about how what I said about you mentioning your ex frequently might have come across...I actually always look forward to your posts and find what you have to say absolutely fascinating, so I for one am happy whenever you share your own experiences. I know that the wise, heartfelt advice you have to offer is relevant to a large percentage of the people who post here with troubled relationships, so I think the more you can share your own experiences, the better chance you have of saving other people from the same heartbreak you went through learning important lessons about love and life the hard way. Please keep sharing with us, Nini, as we think you're amazing and brilliant and very, very wise and insightful!

 
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