I'm not sure where to begin, and would appreciate all your feedback!
December 2004 I met a new boyfriend, I'm 45, he's 44.
Everything was great for 3 months and then almost exactly at the 3 month point, he turned into a monster control freak about EVERYTHING.....
But back to the 1st 3 months. We met 3 weeks before Christmas, and really hit it off. Within 2 weeks we were falling in love.
At Christmas he showered me with gifts, more than I ever imagined. I thought he was overcompensating for something, but I was so happy with the way things were going at that time (but I did make a mental note, that it was just TOO much).
At the 3 month point, he would lose his temper in an instant, became bossy, manipulative, controlling, and volitile. I tried to communicate with him, to work things out. I told him he needed anger management (because that was what I thought the problem was at that time). I then found out thru extensive research that he has borderline personality disorder, and that the anger is not the problem, the anger is the symptom. I read the book, I hate you, don't leave me, and I am currently reading, stop walking on eggshells, taking your life back when someone you care about has BPD. These books opened my eyes! I thought maybe we had a chance at this relationship, but now that I realize why he acts this way, I think it's hopeless.
I wrote him a letter, before I realized that it is BPD, and now re-reading the letter, it's OBVIOUS that's what it is. I apologize for the length, but I think it's more explanatory to post the actual letter than to re-invent the wheel. I'm sad and disappointed because I feel that there is absolutely no chance, , of this working out. He has been calling, begging me to come back, but I see that's also a symptom, fear of abandonment, and doing anything to avoid being abandoned.
If anyone cares to read all this, here it is.
Iíve got a lot to say to you. I hope you read this objectively and really try to understand my point of view, because Iím speaking from the heart.
You have so many good qualities that itís a terrible shame that your need to control and dominate overshadows them.
Do you remember the note with the flowers? Donít change anything, Iím nuts about you!
Well you changed everything. How did you go from treating me wonderfully to yelling, bullying and trying to control? How did you go from treating me with respect to thinking you have the right to talk to me like a subordinate?
Iím pretty sure you act like this because of your father. Iím sorry but itís pretty obviousÖjust take a step back and try to look at it objectively. From what youíve told me about him, Iíve come to the conclusion that your father was abusive. You learned to act like him, evident in your bullying and your anger issues. You learned to try to control thru intimidation and fear because thatís what he did to you. Parents teach us a lot more than just our A,B,Cís, donít they?
Iím not your scapegoat. You are responsible for controlling your own anger.
I told you before. Iíve lived like that and donít plan on doing it again. Did you hear me when I said that? Did you understand? My ex husband was abusive. I recognize the signs.
One time you and I were discussing you rescuing your sister from an abusive relationship and I said (sarcastically) ďdid you ask your sister what she did to make him angry?Ē You looked surprised, like maybe you had a revelation and saw it from the other point of view. I thought maybe it would make sense in those termsÖÖ.did it?
Do you understand that itís never right to take your anger out on someone else? Verbally, emotionally, or physically?
I treat people the way I want to be treated and I canít remember EVER treating you disrespectful or raising my voice at you to try to intimidate you, calling you names, hanging up on you, threatening to leave you, storming out or any of the other tactics you have used on me.
XXX OPEN YOUR EYES
I have been nothing BUT good to you. What about all that nice stuff you said to me in the beginning? ďIíll do anything for you SweetieĒ. Was it just BS?
The one thing you can do for yourself is to get control of your anger, get control of your temper. You are responsible for itÖ..no one else.
You need to realize that this has nothing to do with me. You were angry before you met me and you will be angry the rest of your life unless you decide to make a change. Have you noticed that itís never your fault that you get angry? Itís always someone elses fault, whether itís me, your sister, your brother, or the driver who coasts thru a stop sign without fully stopping. Iím sorry, when you say ďyou make me so angry, StephanieĒ, it just doesnít fly.
I canít just turn my emotions off and back on again. I donít like the way you have been treating me lately and Iím tired of all your controlling ********. I see a pattern. Youíre nice for a while, saying what you think I want to hear, and then when I start believing it again then you start to tighten your grip and make unreasonable demands. You say weíre arguing. Weíre not arguing. Youíre mistaking whatís happening for an argument. Whatís really happening is, Youíre stepping on my reality, on my identity and Iím struggling to retain it. Your ******** about wearing the pants. What makes you think that you should make my decisions for me? What makes you think that if we have two different viewpoints that yours should override mine? Without even hearing me out, without even listening to my point of viewÖ..Because you have a penis and I donít? What makes you think you have the right to make demands on me and try to impose your will on me? If you had your way Iíd only speak when spoken to, and only then if Iím in agreement with you. Iím not a stepford wife.
Maybe we have two different ideas of what a relationship should be. I want a partnership, you seem to think it should be a dictatorship.
Iím a strong woman. Iím not submissive. Iím a smart person. I have a brain. I have a mind. I have intuition. I have decision making skills. I have survival skills. I understand human behavior. Iíve learned a few things in my 45 years. I read all kinds of stuff. Iím up on current events, politics, etc. I work. I own and take care of this apartment building. I pay my bills. I take care of Junior. Iím responsible. I treat people with respect. I donít need to put up with ********. I can survive fine on my own. I donít know why you wouldnít think youíd be lucky to have a woman like that, and I donít understand why you would want to squash who I am and make me into a stepford wife. Itís not going to happen.
I told you before. I am not going to be with someone who manipulates, controls, or tries to bully me. My ex-husband did that. Have a baby or Iíll divorce you. Sign a home equity loan to pay my gambling debts off or Iíll divorce you. Do this or Iíll divorce you, Do that or Iíll divorce you. I lived like that for 10 years. I got away from it and it took a while to recover. I donít plan on living like that again. I donít have to. Do you understand that? Do you??
And you have the nerve to throw up in my face about a failed marriage? Let me tell you something that Iíve told you before. Maybe you forgot. My ex husband tried to manipulate, control and bully me into having a baby. Finally he left meÖÖnot because he wanted to leave me, but because he thought I wouldnít be able to live without him and would beg him back and give in to his demands to have a baby. Thatís called manipulation. Oh well, it didnít workÖÖ..do you see where Iím going with this?
In a way I feel deja vu with you taking all your stuff home and all your threats. I donít think you really wanted to go home. I think you were pulling the same **** my ex husband pulled. It was a controlling tactic. You thought I would beg you to come back and I would give into your demands of a key and kicking Junior out of bed. I would think this was understood, but I guess it needs to be saidÖ..Itís my house, my bed, and my dog. Do you remember when you pulled this **** on me before and I told you not to give me an ultimatum, because the next time you gave me an ultimatum regarding Junior, or anything else for that matter, I would personally hold the door for you? You nodded like you understood. Do you remember that? I doÖ..clear as day. I believed you, but you did it again, and again, and again. Only problem is, I didnít follow thru and hold the door, so you thought you could push the issue some more. I guess Iím partially responsible for allowing it. I probably should have nipped it in the bud.
This storming out angry ********, every time I see youÖ..this hanging up ******** everytime I talk to you on the phone. Itís getting very old. Thatís also a reflection of your controlling behavior. You call the shots that way right? You walk out when YOU want to. You hang up when YOU want to. Youíre controlling the situation that way, as a last ditch effort when you feel like youíve lost control because Iím not allowing you to manipulate me. Then you call up and say I love you, I miss you, like everythingís ok? I canít turn my feelings on and off like that. Hot and cold. I donít like the way youíre treating me, point blank. I donít deserve it.
I wish you could understand what youíre doingÖ..do you? If you donít understand what youíre doing, and realize that itís not right, you can never fix it.
Iím serious when I tell you that you have some VERY WONDERFUL qualities! I wish you would nurture those qualities instead of drowning them in your anger. You could be so much happier and healthier!
Iíve put a lot of time and thought into this letter. I hope you get something out of it. Itís not meant to make you angry, itís meant to make you think.
I wanted to add, that I have hardly seen him for the last month, because he drains my energy so much. I keep telling him no. Well he made an appt for a counsellor about the anger management, just because he thought that was the only way to keep me. I told him I was done unless he does something about his anger, and it won't change without counselling. So he's gone twice now, and I saw him once, after the first time, and don't really feel like seeing him anymore. I'm just so disappointed, and I don't even feel safe in my own house with him, because I don't know what he's really capable of. He's jealous of my dog, and continually tried to goad me into saying that he's more important than my dog. He can't stand that I put my dog first.
Acually I know there's no hope, but I'm still sad about it.
I re-read the letter, and I attached the wrong one, although it still has most of the same info (I revised it a few times). I don't think you guys want me to attach the other one, I've already made this longer than I should have.
I just know from reading about other peoples experiences, that there is no chance at all for this to work, and it also saddens me for him. I actually feel sorry for him. That's why I continued on in this relationship, long after I should have.
This letter was such an eye opener for me. It was like reading about my relationship with my BPD husband through someone else's eyes. You put it all into words so well, too. You and I are reading the same books, and it seems that we are both learning quite a bit. Some of it sure isn't very reassuring for us, is it? I, too, am heartbroken and disappointed. Like in your situation, my husband came on pretty strong when we first began dating and I, too, made a mental note of this.
I cannot tell you if it's a good idea to send the letter or not. I believe it is well-written and really spells it all out. My only concern is whether or not he will look at it objectively. I want to 'borrow' some of what you wrote for a letter I've been contemplating sending to my husband - yet I am fearful of the repercussions it will surely bring. He will be angry and defensive - and will close himself off. Presently, he has not spoken to me in a week and a half and I have absolutely NO IDEA why. His father was hospitalized...I sent a plant to him. He needed help with some phone calls...I helped with them. The week before, I showed up at a court hearing for a lawsuit he has pending with a former customer (he is self-employed as a contractor). He seemed genuinely happy to see me standing in front of the courthouse waiting for him. He was affectionate. The following night I brought dinner since he was low on money from paying his attorney. I surprised him the week before with new jeans, shirts and socks because he was depressed that he couldn't afford to buy these things and he really did need them. These are my 'crimes' I guess. I cannot think of anything I have said or done to warrant the way I'm being treated. And, quite franky, I am tired of this.
You and I seem to be experiencing the same feelings. I feel like I'm drained all the time...my husband sucks the life out of me with his demands. I do try to meet the demands that are reasonable, but I have been resisting the unreasonable ones...and distancing myself from the dramas, many of which he brings onto himself - but I do so with 'love' as the workbook recommends. I listen to the problems (which are always someone else's fault), offer ideas for rectifying them and offer plenty of encouragement. I still get treated like some criminal. It's certainly tiresome, isn't it?
Like you, my husband is jealous of my dog. When we married, I left the dog with my 82 yr old mother who is a widow. I didn't want her to get too lonely. Due to her age and health, I did stop in many days after work to take him for a brisk walk. I mean, heck - I love the little guy no less, know what I mean? I missed him. I love and care about my mom and want to be sure she's OK & doesn't need anything. He HATED this. Told me I had psychological issues and diagnosed me with everything from split personality disorder to ADD to munchhausen (sp?) syndrome. In the meantime, HIS dog (who has serious housebreaking issues) was NEVER left home alone. HIS dog went everywhere with us, even to places that were not appropriate to bring a dog. Dinner at a restaurant around the corner? The dog waited in the truck with the engine running on a spare key so that the heater or air conditioner could be on for him. He would take the dog to his job sites each day and it was the same thing...let the truck run all day with the A/C on to keep the dog comfortable (yet he'd complain about a lack of money only to waste money on gas like this). Invitations to a friend's house? Same deal...the dog was in the truck being kept warm/cool. It was to the point where it was an embarrassment.
You sound as though you've reached the same point I'm at...I feel like I have nothing to lose anymore. His behavior seems stable for days, even weeks. Then, out of the blue, he will snap and take things out on me. I do not deserve to be treated like this. Love should not entail this much work, constant effort - and only on my part. You and I have feelings just like they do - and we are ENTITLED to have those feelings.
So good luck and keep me posted on how things go for you. I'm still reeling from your letter because it reflects so much of what goes on in my head 24/7. I read it last night and couldn't sleep because I was 'adding' to it and editing it in my mind.
hi Scared Wife, thanks for replying. I already sent the letter, a while back, to try to get thru to him, this was before I realized he has BPD. One thing I did say, in the revised letter (I had a few different versions), was....
do you really love me or just the idea of who I would be if I did everything your way?
but even now, I realize, even if I did do everything his way, it just wouldn't be good enough, He would find something wrong with it.
I know I should cut my losses, it's only been 9 months. Thank God, he started acting up before I let him move in with me. He was practically moved in anyway, he was there every night, and putting pressure on me to give him a key. I knew in my gut that was a bad idea, and I didn't give the key. He would have just come and gone as he pleased, stormed out and think he had the right to just come back into my house, my life anytime he pleased. I thought it was a control thing with him, wanting the key.
Feel free to use whatever you want from my letter, I hope it helps. I'm sorry that you're in this situation. I know it's a little harder for you to just walk away from your husband, than it is for me with a boyfriend of 9 months.
It has become so hard to understand what it is that he wants. One minute he gives the impression of just wanting 'out'. I had paperwork drawn up at no small expense - he signed all but the final required document. Hardly indicative of someone who wants 'out' of a marriage in my opinion. He will be loving one minute, ugly and hateful towards me the next. Everything is always about HIM. I'm not entitled to any thoughts, feelings or opionions if they vary even slightly from his. In those instances, I'm wrong - selfish, evil, deceitful, sneaky, mentally ill, you name it and I've been called by the term.
It's very hard to let go. Because I remember the man I originally met - who showered me with love and affection. Was this all fake? An act? It all seemed to change as soon as that marriage license was signed. He'd even tease me about how I promised during our ceremony to 'obey'. I have a written program of the entire ceremoney, word for word. 'Obey' is nowhere in it.
His finances are a complete disaster...and he blames me. HE is the one who refused to open bills/bank statements and tend to things. I offered help right from the start and was told he had it under control. In 7 months of marriage, my sizable savings account was slashed in half just from keeping up with rent, utilities and my personal expenses. He has done NOTHING - for himself, for me or for our marriage. He told the counselor he had no time/money for the sessions because of his desperate need to focus on making money. Imagine my (& the counselor's) shock & disappointment when he signed up for flying lessons a month later. This is not 'commitment to a marriage' in my eyes. He's self-focused and that's it. He shows terrible jealousy towards me because I own a 9 acre piece of property. You & I would see this as an asset, an accomplishment. He calls it an a**-ache. He tells me I have a psychological issue regarding my mother & my dog...yet I've seen him climb into a hot tub buck naked with his little shitzu with an erection.
Another person on this board suggested I leave him alone because he may be starting to realize he's got problems. I can only hope and pray that is the case. I'm afraid and extremely reluctant to count on anything anymore. I would be there for him to support him if this were the case. I just cannot go on any longer being used and treated like a doormat while his unemployed, homeless friend reaps the benefits that I, as his wife, am entitled to yet never receive. He's really good at justifying his reasons for this and tells me I should not take it personally. How can I not? Only a total idiot would stick around for someone who continually treats them with a gross lack of respect. I'm not an idiot. I can see the writing on the wall. Like you, I get a lot of promises that turn out to be nothing more than empty promises.
It must be equally difficult for you because you were drawn to this man the same as I was to my husband. There was something there and, I'm sorry - some things just cannot be faked. If you have the opportunity and the willpower to break away, I hope you will do that. It has not gotten any better for me. Hard as I try to get him to see the light and in such gentle, supportive ways...it has not worked at all. He remains in denial. Good luck to you. I'm here to support you regardless of the path you take.
scaredwife - yeah my BP has complained about going to counselling, why is he spending all this money, blah blah blah, yeah a $20 copayment.....all this money...., but the flying lessons made me laugh......mine flies remote control planes and those aren't cheap either.
I think people with BP constantly try to bluff, and if you call their bluff, they are thrown for a loop. Like when mine took his stuff home, and said he was done, he expected me to chase him and beg him to stay. I let him walk out the door because as I explained before, my ex-husband tried that tactic on me and I recognize it as manipulation.
I see your husband refusing to sign the last document that is necessary, as bluffing. He's hoping that as he signs the other ones leading up to the final one, that you will change your mind and beg him to work things out.
I used to be manipulated easily when I was married, and younger, but with time I've learned to hold my ground.
How long have you been married? How old are you guys?
It's just unbelieveable, how they change from the way the originally acted, isn't it? I was telling my friends within a couple months of meeting him, that I'm going to marry this guy......LOL, Oh My God! Thank God, I didn't!
He just was so wonderful in the beginning, but he's definately not the guy I fell in love with. He keeps telling me he misses me, and asks don't I miss him? I tell him, I miss the guy I fell in love with, I don't miss the guy who verbally abuses me and can't control his temper. Actually I'm not sure I even miss him anymore, I'm just terribly sad and disappointed.
Wow - these similarities are awful scary. My husband started out with the remote control planes just before we married. He started out with 2 or 3, and I'm well aware of the costs involved. We married in late October of 2003 and by mid-May of 2004, he asked me to leave because of my mom, my dog and a multitude of other things that changed &/or grew by the minute. Even the psychologist struggled with keeping up with his complaints. Part of MY issue with him was the fact that out of these 7 months that we lived together, I paid the rent & utilities by myself - along with my land payment, car payment, cell phone & two credit cards, etc.. His claim? The money just wasn't coming in (he'd started a $40,000 home addition a month before we married - don't ask, because I have no idea what he made off that job or where it went). While I shouldered these financial responsibilities alone and was being accused of making bad financial decisions...he would come through the door with a big, brand new airplane tucked under his arm...like a kid on Christmas morning. By the time I was sent home to my mother, I think his collection contained 11 airplanes. Add to that a new laptop computer that he somehow found the money to acquire as well. AND...he accused me of 'sabotaging' his life, his business.
He is 35 and I am 41. I feel more like a parent than a spouse. He spies in my personal email...claims to be hacking into my company's email system (which my boss assures me is unlikely), eavesdrops on my phone calls with my girlfriends. Sent me out to get a hobby a few months into our marriage, which I did and he later complained to the psychologist about - my Tuesday night class from 7-9 was relayed to the counselor by him telling the guy 'she's never home...her father warned me of her tendency to run wild'. I've been accused of having a boyfriend, criticized for wearing make-up to work but not when we dash across the street to rent a couple of movies. It got totally ridiculous and he's BEWILDERED as to why I won't move back in?
That's why the wording in your letter struck me so hard. When you described you being a strong, intelligent woman...you were also describing me. You're a terrific writer!
Still no word from him at all - only phone messages being left with me through my cell number for him...from the trailer park people and co-workers. If I receive any more, I think I will just direct these people to his parents' number. Let them decipher which messages are important and use their gas to deliver them. (I don't think he has a phone at his mobile home yet.) The last time he had a period of time like this, it was in late January and in late February the emails came. They insinuated that it was my responsibility to contact him to ensure he was OK. I guess my well-being never comes into play nor is he responsible for seeing to my needs. It's a one-way street.
I'll try to sign in later on tonight after my stint at running wild tonight...I take primitive rug hooking classes on Tuesdays from 7-9 - with his estranged friend's girlfriend. I'll try to keep my wildness in check with all those older matronly women I'm hanging out with.
LOL you made me laugh, with your running wild bit!
So you guys seperated in May 2004? Over a year? He's at a mobile home near his parents? Are you still in your place? I don't blame you for not wanting to get back together at this point.
Another thing mine brings up about my dog.....what are you gonna do when that dog dies and you have no one to love you, cuz you pushed me away?
He's told me that I can tell my friends that this relationship ended because of a dog in the bed......LOL yeah right
that was one of the many times he suppossedly broke up with me.
Thanks for your complement btw about my writing.
His jealousy scares me because I worry if he would try to do something to hurt my dog, like poisen him or something.
What a 'wild' time we had! Cutting our wool strips on those cutters and working at our rugs. LOL I'm the youngest one there, too. So I really got em wound up! lol Glad to make you laugh. If I didn't maintain some degree of a sense of humor throughout all this, I'd probably go off the deep end.
Still no contact at all from my husband. I carry my phone around like an idiot hoping for a call that may never come. You can't tell me he can't hit a pay phone somewhere or stop by his parents' to use the phone. But...get this one.
At 10pm tonight, I got a call from an unfamiliar number. I answered it hoping it was him. It was another co-worker who I'd never heard of asking if he was 'home'. I said no, he's not - may I take a message. He left his name & number and asked me to have my husband call him in the morning. WHAT IS UP WITH THIS? Everyone calls except HIM?! And, why is he handing out my number? To save face over the fact that he doesn't have one? Talk about feeling used as a messenger service. If he thinks I'm going to drive 30 miles round trip to deliver these to someone who treats me like crap, he'd better think again. What do you make of this? This wasn't the guy who's called two Sundays in a row...it was someone I'd never heard of.
I'd love to work things out...but not by myself. Not when you consider I'm not the one with the problem here. He, too, complained about the cost of counseling...my insurance was paying 80%. He complained about my dog as well - even after I quit bringing him to the condo for visits. His dog relieves himself all over the house & he said my dog was causing his to do that. Funny thing was...it worsened even after I quit bringing my dog in (he's a chubby mutt - what kind of dog do you have?). Don't fall for that crap he says about when your dog's gone ... who's going to love you. I hear stuff like that CONSTANTLY. I'm always hearing things like that. "Nobody's going to tolerate your crap, Lori." "You should be glad to have such an honest guy in your life..."
Well, I'll jot a note to you tomorrow from work. Hope you're coping ok today. I'm 'trying'. Have a great evening!
I have no idea why you keep getting phone calls for him. Could it be that he didn't go to work, and they're trying to find him?
I've got a pug, and he's the sweetest little guy! He will be 14 in November. He's not going to be around forever, why should I be asked to pick someone who treats me like crap over him? I told him, I love Junior, and I don't know why you expect me to apologize for that because I'm not going to. Yes I put Junior first, that's what you do for someone who depends on you for their care and well being. I've asked him over and over, what he would do if he was dating a woman with children? Would he expect her to put him first over her kids? He says that's different because it's "just a dog". You don't know how much I hate that phrase.....when ANYBODY says it. The first time he tried to give me an ultimatum about my dog, I laughed at him because I thought he's got to be kidding! He wasn't, and I fluffed it off because it was so ridiculous. Oh, you'll love this one.....he's even asked me.... if we were in a boat... (you know where this is going, right?), and the boat tipped over, who would you save? I laughed and said, of course I'd save Junior because I would guess you'd be wearing a life jacket and you can swim so you wouldn't need saving. And I'm thinking....is he worried about saving me? I told him, first of all we will never be in that situation, and second of all, who would save me?
He tells me I'm selfish. I told him, "I'm not selfish, that's just something you say when you're not getting your way"
Heres our most recent IM conversation from yesterday after he wrote and told me he feels like I abandoned him......so typical huh?
ME:I'm sorry you feel like I abandoned you. I didn't abandon you. You pushed me away. I tried for 6 months to make you see what you were doing. I told you over and over that I wasn't going to be with someone who treats me bad. You continued to swear at me, call me names, and be disrespectful. How long did you think I would tolerate it? Forever?
Now that I've learned about borderline personality disorder, it all makes sense. It's like solving a puzzle. Now I know why you act the way you do. It still doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it ok. I really wish you would look it up. You would really be surprised.
HIM: As I have told you befor and for the last time, leave me alone if you dont want to see me. I will not seek help for myself or us unless you see me and stand by me. That is all will say to you. I also know that 70 % of wemon have this problem also. Yes I have looked into it. Thats all will say to you goodby
ME: - I think you mis-interpreted something. It's not 70% of women, it's 70% of people with this problem are women and 30% are men
so you have looked into it?
HIM: You know where I stand with us. Call me and tell me you would like to see each oher and talk about this together or leave me alone. Thats all
ME: you didn't answer my question. What did you find out when you looked into it? Do you think it sounds like you?
Again, he's trying to use going to counselling as a barganing chip for me to see him. Why do I want to see him? It's just stress that I don't need. When I'm alone, I'm at peace. I don't even know if I should respond to him anymore. What's the point?
This is amazing, isn't it? The way things get twisted back to us. My husband has a serious lack of respect when it comes to the female mind as well. I'm continually told that women make bad decisions because they make them based on emotions; men make logical decisions. Oh really, then why are my bills current and yours are not? What does 'emotion' have to do with that? Why do I actually 'own' something and you do not? You have no idea how idiotic his statements begin to sound when he knows I'm aware of his poor decisions.
Pugs are so adorable! You just keep taking care of that little guy who I'm sure loves you to pieces just as my chubby mutt, Stu, does. I adopted him from the APL in 1999. He's been great company for my mom as well since my father passed away in 2002.
Your IM with your estranged boyfriend sounds identical to an IM I had with my husband during the winter months. I wasn't even as direct as you were (I was still walking on those eggshells) and he took it terribly. Said I didn't even begin my email with a proper 'hello' first of all and he did not appreciate the insinuation that he had a disorder (but I guess it was OK for me to sit there for the past year listening to him diagnose me with everything under the sun). I'll have to dig it up so that I can share it with you. You'll be amazed at how he twists things. He, like yours, was quick to point out that women are the ones most often diagnosed with this disorder. I guess when he read that, he interpretted it to mean that men are NEVER diagnosed with it.
These phone calls just baffle me to no end when you consider he is obviously not speaking to me. I wonder if he's doing this intentionally to try to prompt me to hop in my car to drive over there and deliver it? That would surely be much easier on him than for him to contact me with the apology that I deserve. I know how this is going to pan out, too. If/when he DOES call or email, he will dog me about how I'm playing games and not acting like a caring wife, yada-yada-yada. The one-way street thing again.
Well, I've got to go take care of my First Aid/CPR/AED students. Lunch has arrived for them so I need to get set up. I will talk to you later. Have a great day.
The Following User Says Thank You to Scared Wife For This Useful Post: Justsad (04-20-2011)
boy do they sound similar. I think mine knows that I can talk circles around him and he doesn't have the skills to defend himself. I've told him I think he has a comprehension problem because what I say and what he thinks I said are different a majority of the time. It's funny how he thought 70% or women have this......no it's 70% of people with it are women. He just doesn't seem to understand stuff he reads or stuff I say......it's always misinterpreted. I try to be as clear as possible. I think I communicate fairly well and it's very frustrating when someone can't understand when you've been as articulate as you possible can. Yeah he tells me I have problems, I'm insecure, etc. I said yeah I am a little insecure, but not insecure enough to stay in a relationship that's not healthy. Not insecure enough to stay with someone who doesn't treat me right. He didn't know how to respond.
He may be testing you with the phone calls to see if you ever will deliver them to him. I wouldn't, if I were you.
So would you respond if you were me, or just let it go? I think it's hopeless. You can bring a horse to water, you know? I just feel bad that he thinks I abandoned him, and I know that's part of his game.....
Yes, they certainly do sound identical. If it weren't for the age difference, I would think we were talking about the same man. We probably do have enough sense to talk around the bs they give us, but unfortunately it seems to get us nowhere. There is nothing wrong in your communication that I can see, just as I doubt you have trouble comprehending anything I'm saying. I, too, used to try to be 'specific' and 'clear' to the point where I felt like I was talking to a toddler. My husband is highly intelligent and is very skilled at throwing me off balance with no prior warning. It doesn't take me as long as it once did to 'right myself' again and stand my ground. Now when I do that, he will find a different topic to dredge up or threaten me with.
I'm continually told that I'm the one with the insecurity issue, too (and who isn't insecure in some way to some degree?). However, I don't suppose phone calls and emails to him from old girlfriends would have anything to do with that, would it? I don't suppose finding a bunch of old pictures on the seat of his truck...many of them of old girlfriends...has a thing to do with it either. But...he will try to throw ME off balance by saying I had the audacity to 'sneak off' to Boston on a business trip with my boss...even though I'd asked him to go with me when the trip was first mentioned. He accuses me of going to my mother's (when we lived together) to meet a boyfriend...all it would have taken from him was a drive-by and unannounced visit himself to see that this was anything but true. It's how his mind works...constantly puts me on the defensive and I walk away from the conversation why I even had to defend myself in the first place.
I don't like the way your boyfriend is issuing that ultimatum (I've had so many of those myself that as soon as I recognize one, it makes me want to scream!) of how he will not get help for himself or the two of you unless you see him. I might have replied that with or without you, HE will benefit the most. The help is for HIM, not YOU. That may be pointless to point out though if you know he won't 'hear' that. You may want to redirect that ultimatum without making it seem like one by telling him you wish you could see him but cannot consider it unless if he is getting help. Put the responsibility back on him, not on you. If he's online frequently, I would sit back to see if he approaches you. If he's anything like mine, he'll find some 'reason' to do so. It may not happen immediately, but it will happen. I wouldn't IM him though. If you want to send an email, that might be different and easier for you as you won't find yourself locked in a debate that you may not be in the mood for. I paid a $300 cell phone bill in November because when my husband stormed out of the counselling session, I called him to see where he'd gone, if he was OK, etc. (again - trying to show that I loved/cared). It only escalated into a debate/fingerpointing match with suicide threats from him...which is what kept me on the phone for so long.
If/when you read that workbook, you will learn about how someone with BP manipulates us through FOG...Fear (of losing the relationship, etc), obligation and guilt. Believe me, I glanced through the first pages of this workbook online and paid more than the cost of the book itself to have it shipped to me overnight. It will help you assess your actual situation to make a decision that is right for you, not him.
I'm just going to start redirecting these callers to his parents' phone number. I'm still a little miffed over the lack of a personal thank you from his father or from his father via his mother. Yet, I think that his dad is probably so preoccupied with 'fixing' up his son with at least the basics & is starting to monitor his paychecks a little more closely that it was just an honest oversight on his part. A few friends have agreed with this concept as well. I'm also going to work on my version of a letter because yours really motivated me so that I can get it into the mail this week. I would probably feel differently about handling things as I am if I hadn't been treated so shabbily & hatefully during Labor Day weekend. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept though that when someone treats you like dirt, you hardly feel like showing up on the doorstep again. The interesting part of his behavior is that he's pretty careful not to do it in front of his friend, although his friend has heard some things & made it a point to tell my husband he knows a really good psychologist. Maybe he is beginning to realize he's got a problem? I don't know - probably just more wishful thinking on my part as usual.
Well, hang in there & let me know how things are going on your end. I hate to encourage or discourage you. Don't fall for those ultimatums though. Nobody knows how hard that is better than I do though. Don't just follow your heart...listen to that other little voice inside of you.
When you say the workbook, is that seperate than the regular book? I just bought the book, and didn't see a workbook.
About the ultimatum thing, I did turn it around before, and tell him that this will never work unless he went to anger management. That's what got him there the first time. Then he wanted to see me, telling me I should throw him a bone, he went to counselling FOR ME, FOR US......(never for him and his problem). So I thought maybe he is right, and I saw him on Friday of Labor day weekend. It was ok, he was on his best behavior, but I was still wary of him. We rented a couple movies and had an ok time, but I probably would have preferred to be alone. He wanted to see me Saturday, but I went out during the day with my mom and when I came home I did a few things, and was tired so I laid down for a nap about 5:30. He called an hour later and I told him I was sleeping call me a little later, he did. I was still tired. Finally when he called at 8:30 again I told him don't come over, I'm tired, I'm just gonna sleep. I slept until the next morning. I wonder if it was just from the stress and pressure of having to see him again that made me so tired. So Sunday I saw him, I went with him to watch him fly his plane. He's asked me a lot, and I never did, but I told him I wanted to this time. I thought I was making an effort, but it seems like my heart's just not in it the same as it was. You get beat down and worn out after a while. Mad at yourself for falling for the same stuff over and over after hoping it will be different. I'm smarter than that! Why do I keep trying?
So then he went the 2nd time for counselling, again trying to use it as a bargaining chip to get to see me. I feel mean when I reject him, but I told him, the way he's been treating me I'm not in the mood to see him.
I'm between a rock and a hard place.
I know you don't want to influence me, but try to answer this honestely.....
If you weren't married and had only been with the guy for 9 months, like I have, would you walk away, knowing what you know now?
I feel so bad for you...because you are as torn as I am. Unable to decide, latching onto every 'good' moment, wanting to desperately believe that he sees his behavior & recognizes that it's not appropriate and shows a willingness to get help. I, too, seem to fall for every bone he throws my way. You are no more of a sucker than I am. Please believe that. As I mentioned before, it's HARD when you remember those first wonderful months, the attention/affection. It felt so good and 'right' - I thought I'd found the most wonderful man on the planet and asked myself who in their right mind would let him go. He's gorgeous - beautiful blue eyes, perfect skin and long, brown hair...like a male model. I find I'm asking myself, "Where did he go? When did he slip away and where did this guy come from?"
At first, when his 'friend' came onto the scene, I resented him...he was an intrusion that might interfere with my 'work' on this relationship and a hindrance to my husband's wallet, something he could ill afford then as well as now. Soon I found him to be a blessing because I KNOW he sees and hears the things my husband says and does, and he has made some comments that should have really struck my husband between the eyes to wake him up. It hasn't worked yet. That I know of. I sit here each and every day wondering if this guy's asking where I've been, what's going on, what did you say/do to her...One night he went so far as to come right out & tell my husband that he's lucky I didn't show up one night at the hotel to strangle him in the middle of the night. He said it lightheartedly yet I knew why he'd said it. He was validating what I was experiencing and I needed that from an outsider. I really did.
That workbook is called The Stop Walking On Eggshells Workbook. I got it through Amazon. It's in my car right now. Tomorrow I'll take it into work with me so that I can give you more info off of the front of it. I didn't order the book, so how is it? The workbook has action steps for you to work through.
I fell in love with my husband right off the bat. There were troubling isolated incidents that I ignored and shouldn't have. They were definitely within the first 6 months of the relationship. As I recall them, I realize now that I was sacrificing my dignity for him and should have broken it off, but I didn't. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have issued a direct ultimatum to him back then that if he didn't seek help, I would have no alternative but to end the relationship. In later conversations during troubled times, he inadvertently revealed that this was his fear. I didn't spot it though. It's all coming together as I educate myself on BPD. The workbook has a section that helps you distinguish whether or not you are a 'disappearing' person...no time for friends, family, interests, etc. I was and probably still am to a certain degree a disappearing person.
That's why I'm urging you not to think only with your heart here. And I truly know how hard that is - because I did that and I'm where I am today. If it doesn't feel right, if you question his determination/dedication and sincerity, I would strongly consider ending the relationship. The psychologist warned me that my husband will get worse as he gets older. I didn't think it was possible, but it obviously is. He saw him as needing INPATIENT, LONG-TERM care, which is costly, and intensive treatment for no less than 3 years. Add to that the possible need for drug rehab. Do you really want to sit around for that length of time keeping your fingers crossed for something that may not happen? I'm not sure I can. Hang in there, Rose. I understand your dilemma and will help you as best I can with it.