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Old 08-16-2006, 11:46 PM   #1
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Fabat40 HB User
More drama

Please tell me if I'm wrong here and be nice... I won't get upset or offended though. Here's what happened.

I nominated this one lady in my staff for a promotion and a raise, (pending review) she reports to me. I've been mentoring her for about 5 years now and she's brilliant and ambitious and I can see a bright future for her. My only problem with her is her attire. I've mentioned this to her several times throughout the years I've been mentoring her and strongly adviced her on "dress for success" meaning, wear a nice suit or well-fitted pants or a sweater that doesn't go down to her belly button and show half of each of her breasts! Today was the straw... we had a huge meeting involving the CFO. I specifically invited her and of course, my boss was there who is aware of me nominating her for a promotion and a raise. This lady (who's 37 years old) showed up dressed like this:

Wearing a sleeveless, tank-top like blouse with laces around them which shows some of her stomach.
Wearing a pleated mini & I'm talking 3 inches above her knee and if she bends over a little bit, something else would show!
Then, get this! she was wearing a thigh-high black, high-heeled boots!!!!!!! and this is her attire in front of the CFO who heads the Finance dept in a multi-billion dollar company!!! The rest of us were wearing suits including me!!! It's not like I don't pay her enough... if she can afford a brand new BMW 750i fully loaded, she can afford 1 suit from Macy's! My boss and I were flabbergasted! the CFO's eyes bugged out and gave a disgusted glance at everybody in the room as if he's waiting for someone to jump out and say, "SMILE! you're on candid camera!" she sat there throughout this important meeting thinking she was cute... it's only cute if it's in her own private bedroom!

I asked to talk to her immediately after the meeting, we went into my office, I shut & locked my door and brought up the subject again of her attire! She started yelling at me and telling me that it's none of my business what she wears and I reminded her of our company policy (everybody reads and signs this policy booklet and it clearly states there what's acceptable and what's not) and daily decency not to mention how ridiculous she looks walking around like something I'd wear in the privacy of my bedroom when I'm role-playing with my fiance! She yelled at me and told me that I'm completely wrong and that I have no right to tell her how to dress. I reminded her that most people at the workplace has a perception of how other people "should" dress if they want to get anywhere within the company, unfortunately, it's the "game" we all have to play and that I'm trying to help her get ahead. She told me to fire her if I don't like the way she's been dressing. She's NEVER dressesed this ridiculously! close, but never to this extreme. She stormed out of my office and I'm seriously considering of replacing her. I've talked to a couple of other people who is just as brilliant as she is, but dresses much more professionally.

Am I wrong here? Would you jeopardize a six figure income to prove that nobody can control how you dress even though they're trying to help you? All I want is for her to cover up a bit... heck, some of my managers have been wearing jeans everyday except for important meetings and they make as much money as she does... Am I uptight? Am I uncool? Is that how a lot of people dress nowadays?

Thank you

Last edited by Fabat40; 08-16-2006 at 11:51 PM.

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Old 08-17-2006, 12:29 AM   #2
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
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caladbolg HB User
Re: More drama

Yes, of course that's how a lot of people dress nowadays - you know, all those people in their 20s-30s who'd wear something like that to go out for a night of debauchery.

Fabat, the only one who is out of line is her. Being her superior, you have every right enforce company policies on dress. Don't let her talk to you like that, saying you can't tell her what to wear. Of course you can! Furthermore it makes you look bad as one who is nominating her for a raise. If she wants to be difficult about the way she dresses, then let her be difficult - without her job, just as she requested.

Don't think that you're being "uncool" about the situation. Telling her now is protecting her from hearing it from the top guys. It's a good thing - she just doesn't realize it. Her attitude is ridiculous. It's not out of the question to wear something business casual to a job. Last I checked, it's absolutely normal, and expected of any employee.

So, 6 figures huh? Are you guys hiring any starving computer science grad students?

Old 08-17-2006, 03:51 AM   #3
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minijumbofly HB User
Re: More drama

Well, she seems spoiled and stubbon and these are not the qualities I look for in my subordinates regardless of talent or abilities.

Brilliant but uncontrolable people are far worst than ordinary average workers. They are the type that can bring down in a day what it took a hundred years to build.

I've met my share of this type and trying to compromise just spoils them even more. I just wish my boss is as forgiving as you are.

Old 08-17-2006, 04:09 AM   #4
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minijumbofly HB User
Re: More drama

BTW, in addition to the attitude issue. Let's touch on the dress issue as well.

Dressing is more than appearances, it reveals a person's inner character as to either how they feel or what they want to be.

Sure I enjoy casual attire but I wouldn't dream of going into a professional meeting with it. It is dis-respectful and immature for people to think their freedom of expression should be accepted over traditional value.

Your own reputation is on the line now, I believe you already know what to do. Don't let sentiments get in the way.

Besides, I can't even imagine if some of the well rounded middle aged men start to wear things like biker outfits or macho man tank tops to work....

Just the thought of it is grossing me out

Old 08-17-2006, 05:06 AM   #5
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susieq0726 HB Usersusieq0726 HB Usersusieq0726 HB Usersusieq0726 HB Usersusieq0726 HB Usersusieq0726 HB Usersusieq0726 HB User
Re: More drama

I am the Operations Manager of a company that deals with the same issue. We also have a dress policy that all employees must adhere to. I don't care how smart, hard-working or wonderful she is, if she can't comply with company policy, she's gotta go.
In addition, you can't allow her to dress like that and not let the other employees do the same. In long run it will cause more problems than it's worth. I'd cut her loose.

Old 08-17-2006, 05:37 AM   #6
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whackedback HB Userwhackedback HB Userwhackedback HB User
Re: More drama


I'll hire her.

Seriously, enough people (including your superiors) have seen her attire. I think you need to contact HR to ask what the proper channel is for providing official warnings before you do the ultimate act of termination. She's continuously violated company policy. Other employees may soon decide that they can break this or other rules as they see fit.

Take her through the process, and if she realized her job is "officially" on the line, then she has the choice to comply or seek employment elsewhere. Just to be safe, make sure that you can get at her work should she decide to do some kind of sabotage before she leaves.


Old 08-17-2006, 07:44 AM   #7
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Willapp HB User
Re: More drama

I would definitely take some action against her. You've already said that this is someone you've been promoting, and now your superiors have seen the way she dresses and how inappropriate it is, it will reflect very badly on you. They will think that you either agree with the way she dresses, or that you're a weak leader who can't enforce company policy.

As the previous poster has said, you need to find out from HR what the appropriate steps are to give her official warnings about her dress code. Assuming it doesn't improve, you need to fire her. I'd also consider personally apologising to those at the meeting, and make it clear that you don't condone how she was dressed and will be taking the appropriate steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

You gotta cover your own back

Old 08-17-2006, 09:55 AM   #8
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StenoLady1 HB UserStenoLady1 HB User
Re: More drama

No, I don't believe you're at all wrong here. You're not being "uncool." Cool has nothing to do with upholding a company policy regarding dress and physical image.

I'm in and out of courtrooms, law offices, engineering offices, CPA offices, massive corporations all day. I see all sorts of professional working environments, and in 12 years, I've never seen what you described someone wearing in a professional working environment. Even in Florida with the heat and humidity, professionals are still expected to dress appropriately. If this is how she wishes to dress for work, maybe she ought to find another line of work in a not-so-professional environment.

The fact that she argued with you about company policy also causes me concern. You've nominated her for a raise/promotion. Will she be this way with her next superior?

Like other posters have mentioned, I'd speak to HR about the dress and verbal conduct she displayed with you, her superior, and get the wheels in motion to get this taken care of. I believe this would reflect poorly on you in six months or a year when you are no longer her superior and she is reporting to someone else -- possibly even your boss!

Best of luck!

Old 08-17-2006, 10:33 AM   #9
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minnesotagirl HB User
Re: More drama

I agree with all of the above. I almost wonder if your employee has other issues with you as her boss and she's trying to prove some kind of point? But, I guess I don't understand how a person could dress that way and not feel totally uncomfortable. There are legal issues involved here so you need to talk to your HR department. She's making you look bad. Get this stuff in writing.

Old 08-17-2006, 10:46 AM   #10
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galinaqt HB User
Re: More drama

I think you was very nice and fair to this person, most of the bosses will tell one time at most and if she disobey she would be in trouble. In my company dressing code reinforced and person will be just walked out no matter who she/he is. If she risk her job for opportunity to dress the way she wants she has problem. I wouldn't promote her and report it to your boss or HR.

Old 08-17-2006, 12:06 PM   #11
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dewdrop333 HB User
Re: More drama

I think that speaking to HR is the only thing to do. I too work in a very professional environment .. and while deep down I am a jeans and t-shirt person .. I wear slacks and a blouse to work .. EVERY DAY .. and hide the tattoos ... my hair is not purple (anymore) because I work with suits ...

Anyway .. the way she spoke to you when you addressed your concerns with her style of dress is inappropriate ... you need to talk to HR and find out how to go about documenting her disregard for company dress policy.

You may have to put out a memo about what is and what is not acceptable in the office (not you in particular but your HR department) .. and document, document, document.

I wish you well .. if she was smart ... she would get something that covered herself ... and wear that stuff on the weekend ... but people make their own choices ... so sad.

Good luck to you!
Mother is the word for God on the lips and hearts of children - The Crow

Old 08-17-2006, 06:58 PM   #12
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Fabat40 HB User
Re: More drama

Thanks for all of your responses everybody. I thought I was too lenient w/ her. When she first came aboard, I saw myself in her and she clutched onto me and asked to be my mentor. I was flattered and wanted to help. In the beginning, she wasn't dressing this way. Then as the years went by, she became more & more risque. I have given her 2 warnings in the past. After my boss called me into his office and ripped me a new one. I retracted my nomination. Went to the office of the Director of HR and wrote up her 3rd and final warning. After this, if she doesn't follow the rules, she'll loose her job. She's now on "restriction" meaning, she needs to show me all of her work everyday. I hate this... I have no time to babysit! I have better things to do than babysit! I feel embarrased about the whole thing... like you guy said, it reflects on me. And that's nothing like me.

When I gave her the 3rd and final warning, she signed it and took her copy and left my office with a smile. It's as if she wants to be fired. I don't know. The office of the CFO made a formal complaint to HR too about her "costume" from yesterday.

Thank you again guys. I knew I wasn't uptight...


Old 08-17-2006, 07:09 PM   #13
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eve40 HB User
Re: More drama

Not only is her dress inapproprate, but so was her manner to you. Fire her, or at least threaten to if her dress and additude doesn't improve, it's the best thing you can do for her. Make sure she knows why she's being fired. It's the only way she'll learn. Some people only learn by feeling the pain.

Old 08-17-2006, 08:29 PM   #14
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Angel77 HB User
Re: More drama

I think you handled it appropriately and showed great restraint!!!! I would have canned her arse right then and there!!! For yelling like that. She may be brilliant, but how much brilliance is outshown by a mouth that has no filter on it??? How far would Donald Trump have gotten if he treated the then upper management like she treated you...can we all say, "Would you like fries with that?"

If someone was paying me a 6 figure income, mentoring me and trying to help me move up the way you have helped her, I'd make damn sure I was polite regardless of what I thought....especially when it comes to clothes.

I would tell her, when the time comes, "You know we've discussed dress codes on numerous occasions, I have tried to be polite, but bottom line is this is company policy and regardless of what people want to wear, there's a policy for a reason. If you find it impossible to stick to, then you may want to find a job somewhere that this is acceptable." Keep it to the policy, don't put in opinions because some people take it as an opening to voice there own and since you've been open to listening or at least dealing with it in the past, she has seen fit to escalate her behavior...

and bottom line, she's making the choice on whether or not she wants to work there or not....maybe she's dressing this way to find a sugar daddy, so she doesn't have to work for a living!!!! Good luck....I'll wear a suit for you! You can reach me at.....nah, just kidding, don't want to go against ANY policies! Toodles, Angel
If you don't experience anything bad, you'll never appreciate the good when it comes around!!!

Old 08-18-2006, 08:58 AM   #15
Join Date: May 2005
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dewdrop333 HB User
Re: More drama

I bet she is looking into legal action .. as long as you have given her appropriate written warnings ... you have done your job .. and are in no jepordy ...

You aren't uptight dude .. you are professional .. it's a good thing.
Mother is the word for God on the lips and hearts of children - The Crow

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