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Old 05-01-2007, 03:47 PM   #1
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Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome.

For the last year and some months my brother has been dating a woman he was very very much in love with. He worked with her best friend and that's how they met, through the co-worker/friend. He invited me to their get togethers and I became friends with the group as well. My brother struggled with his insecurities throughout the relationship because 1) he doesn't make much money at all, 2) always worried he wasn't good enough for her and 3) she was very demanding (our mother is a hoarder and very uptight about how her house looks, doesn't like anyone in her house, but my brother's woman wanted ot be invited for Chirstmas but my mom didn't, and because her ex husband didn't want my brother in his house for some party he threw back in August and she went but only stayed an hour because my brother wasn't invited, then she felt my brother shouldn't see our parents on Christmas since she was invited, so he didn't come home at all, which really hurt my mom, she's 77 and doesn't have a lot of Christmases left) and she generally kept my brother on pins and needles trying to please her. Well, she finally dumped him for good three weeks ago. He's absolutely crushed, heartbroken. She kept calling him, "just to talk" and to make sure he's ok, and he's like "what does she want me to say? I'm not ok, and probably won't be for a while." she called and told him about the tv her mother bought her when she was 16 that finally pooped out, because "you're the only one who would understand...blah blah." Every time my brother heard her voice it was killing him, like ripping the scab off a wound and making it bleed all over again. They talked Thursday and he told her he missed her and she said "well...I miss you too...." with a tone that said "well, yes, we're going to "miss" each other but it's over, move on." So Friday he finally told her "I love talking to you, but after hearing your voice it takes me days to get over it, it makes me really really sad. The tone in your voice yesterday sounded like you're moving on, it's time to do that, so I need to try to do that, I've moved into a new place and it's a goo time for me to do that, I'm sorry, but I just don't think I can talk to you anymore, it's just too painful " and she got pissy with him and snapped at him "fine, I won't call you anymore!" and hung up, which made him feel even more awful. I am still sort of friends with the group, or was, so I went to hang out with them Saturday night, and my brother's ex was with a new man, hugging on him, rubbing his leg, whispering in his ear, etc. I'm trying to decide 1) should I even try to remain friends with the co-worker...she's a really cool person, but my brother's ex's best friend, so of course she's on the ex's side on everything, and looks down on my brother for not being more ok with the situaton, though I don't think my brother knows she already has a new man, he hasn't told me or asked me about it if he does know, so I don't think he does, plus his ex didn't even speak to me or look at me or say hi, so she seems to have written me off as well, or at least is uncomfortable having me there watching her with her new man, and to be honest, it was like a kick in MY gut to see it and 2) it has only been three weeks since the break up, and the level of intimacy that I witnessed, leads me to believe it most certainly was not a first or second date. I'm now wondering if she cheated on my brother with this guy. It seems rather likely, but I'm not sure. I could a) call the co-worker/friend and create and make more drama by asking her if the ex cheated on my brother and does he need to get tested, or b) I could put yet another daggar in my brother's heart by telling him what I saw and suggesting he shoudl probably get tested, or c) not say anything and cross my fingers and just hope that she didn't pick anything up from this guy and pass on to my brother that could cause permanent effects in order to spare his feelings. Why do people who seem to be decent and nice even end up being evil, selfish pains in the arses? I'm beside myself hurting for him, feeling my own loss of a friend and a sister in law figure, feeling betrayed because she told me she cares so so very much for my brother, yet couldn't be gracious or unselfish enough to say "oh, ok, I understand you need to heal whichever way works best for you. I'll miss talking to you, sorry we couldn't end up friends, maybe we'll run into each other a year or so down the line and can catch up, good luck to you." No, she had to be selfish and pull this emotional manipulation, when she's already sleeping with someone else. What to do, what to do??????

 
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:35 PM   #2
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

It is really hard to watch someone you love being so deeply hurt. And knowing that you really can't fix anything about the situation. It is up to you as to whether you can stand being part of that group, with her best friend in it. As to your brother, be his sounding board, listen to him, be there for him, all of which you are doing already. That is really all you can do, but it is no little thing, believe me. The subject of her supposed infidelity may come to his notice eventually, and you can gently voice your concerns about health matters, but you know him better than I do, so you are a better judge of whether to tell him about it or not. The risk is that if he knows that you knew, he may be hurt that you didn't tell him. All the best, Sera

 
Old 05-01-2007, 05:23 PM   #3
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

Well, if I were you:

1. I would quit this group. (It is not a long time you have been around and then you feel sort of out of place in it, as I could read from your words. You won't miss it very much, and then you know, out of sight, out of mind. Just forget these people, not only for your brother's sake, but also and especially for your own sake. They seem to be so shallow anyway.)

2. I wouldn't tell anything to my brother. At least not now, as his pain is so fresh. Maybe later, years ahead, if he ever picks up the subject with you again. (Wait a minute. How old is your brother? Do you think he is such a fool as to have had unprotected sex with that girl? If he did, there's nothing you can do about it, except hope for the best. He should have known better. Anyway that the girl quickly entered another relationship doesn't mean she was having it at the same time she was with your brother. Maybe your frustration with her is making you see it that way. Think otherwise that your brother was lucky to have lost her before anything more serious could have developed between them both.)

3. I would stop being so protective of my brother. (You are probably older than him and feel that he is rather too emotive and inexperienced. But there is little actually that you can do to help him to get more mature. Sorry to say so, but you are not his mother and then again he is a man already. He has to go through experiences and learn through his own mistakes. If you are really friends with him, you can go out together and perhaps you can introduce him to your own friends, both boys and girls. Maybe he now needs friends more than he needs anybody else. You can serve as a filter or jumping board for him, but not as a safety net.)

Best to you and him.

 
Old 05-02-2007, 08:40 AM   #4
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

that's up to how close ALL your relationships are, including your brother, new friends etc.

While it's a difficult decision when trying not to hurt your brother's feeling, I'd have said something to my brother to make the healing process quicker althout not so easier for him.

First, it is the truth that his ex moved on pretty easily (she might have done it out of pittines, but the fact remains that she has moved on), second, that might give your brother a new perspective and making him stronger on getting over her (he might see her disrecpetful of his feeelings while calling him and hanging out with another man).

worst case scenario, she might still has feeling for him, that;s why she is calling him back but if that's the case she is being quite quick in finding a replacement (she is either immature or a biatch, both cases not so good for your bro)


As far as your position in the new group, that again depends on how close you're with them..If it gets personal and ugly, you;d have to distance yourself ..itf all are mature people that understand that couple get together and/or break up and its not their place to butt in you can keep your freindship ..if that;s fine with your brother too (it might bother him..so you better ask him how he feels about that)

 
Old 05-02-2007, 08:57 AM   #5
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

RE: the last post, no, I'm not older than him, I am his little sister and he is 47 years old. This break up has just hit him very hard. I think he saw this woman as his last chance to be happy, to get married, to be with someone and have a real relationship. Of course I'm protective of him, I'm protective of my parents, of everyone and anyone I love, and I make no apologies for that.

Anyway, I have decided to distance myself from this group, as hard as it will be for me. They are the only friends I have and my only social contacts or connections. But Ijust no longer feel comfortable or even really welcome, nor do I care to sit there and watch my brother's ex run on and smooch with her new man so soon after breaking my brother's heart. And it only being three weeks, no, I of course don't know for sure if she cheated on my brother, but just judging by the level of intimacy I witnessed between her and her new man, it was most certainly not a first or second date. It takes a little time to establish that kind of intimacy. We are all grown ups, not randy, bed-hopping teenagers, and I doubt that she would be rubbing his leg and smooching with him if she had only known him a very short time, like three weeks or less. That's why I feel it probably started before she officially broke it off with my brother.

As for my concern about STD's my brother was with this woman over a year, as I stated, and they were talking marriage. From my brother's standpoint at least, the relationship was very very serious. He did things with and for her kids, etc. If he trusted her and felt they were a done deal, and she was on the pill, then yes, it's possible they had unprotected sex, as many seriously commited and married couples do if they have both already been tested clean and they both trust the other is not sleeping around. Even if they were having protected sex, the herpes virus can be transfered even while using a condom, if the virus is on an area that is not covered by the condom, which of course is very possible, and that area comes into contact with unprotected area of the other person. If she started sleeping with this other guy while still sleeping with my brother, even if it was protected, there is still a chance something could have been passes, though a small chance. I have decided to wait about 6 months, which is how long it takes for the herpes virus to show up on most tests, generally speaking. I also feel telling him might alleviate his feelings of responsibility. he blames himself completely for the break up and holds her completely blameless. when he has had some time to heal, and learns how fast she moved on to someone else, perhaps he will be able to put it in a little better perspective.

No, I don't think she called him because she still has feelings for him. I think she's just incredibly selfish and self centered and expects the whole world to turn the way she wants it to. It was way off base for her to have gotten angry with him for his simply wanting to heal without having her rip the scab off the wound making it bleed all over again. Which is why I have decided to just separate myself. This group really cares about her, and I have lost all feeling and respect for her.

 
Old 05-02-2007, 09:11 AM   #6
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

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Originally Posted by furtiva View Post
As far as your position in the new group, that again depends on how close you're with them..If it gets personal and ugly, you;d have to distance yourself ..itf all are mature people that understand that couple get together and/or break up and its not their place to butt in you can keep your freindship ..if that;s fine with your brother too (it might bother him..so you better ask him how he feels about that)
Thanks for the words. For me, it's not a matter of maturity so much, but how we each feel about how the situation worked out. She didn't speak to me at all, as I said, when she was there with her new man, I don't know why, she could have still been angry with my brother for saying he couldn't talk to her anymore, which she had no right to be angry at in the first place, and passed that anger onto me, or she could have been uncomfortable at my seeing her with her new man. Anyway, I am deeply disappointed with her. I have always thought rather highly of her, but she handled this issue very selfishly and coldly, and I just dont' care to be around her, because I don't think I could be around her without getting into it. Her best friend, the co-worker, is really the only one in the group that I'm close to at all. I don't care about not having any of the others in my life anymore, but I will miss the friend. But I feel very strongly about it, and I know she will defend and side with my brother's ex, and when I feel so strongly about something that it makes me this upset or uptight, I simply can't be around people who disagree with me, well, a better way to put it is people who can't be on my side. No one is ever always on your side or will always see eye to eye with you on everything, but something this huge and emotionally charged, I need to be around people who can see and feel and understand what we're going through and be supportive of that, and I don't think they can be.

Last edited by Larrylou'smom; 05-02-2007 at 09:46 AM.

 
Old 05-02-2007, 02:19 PM   #7
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

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Originally Posted by Larrylou'smom View Post
RE: the last post, no, I'm not older than him, I am his little sister and he is 47 years old. This break up has just hit him very hard. I think he saw this woman as his last chance to be happy, to get married, to be with someone and have a real relationship. Of course I'm protective of him, I'm protective of my parents, of everyone and anyone I love, and I make no apologies for that.

I am sorry I made a mistake, but I didn't have the right information, and somehow I was led to think he was a young man. And I am also sorry to hear that he is probably hopeless in terms of ever finding another woman again. Of course he shouldn't think that way. Maybe you can help him see the best side of things and convince him that it is never too late. He should simply look in the right places from now on. Of course it is right to be protective of the people you love. I am also that way, and I can relate. However, I find that being supportive is better than being protective. If you overprotect, you make growing difficult, and when you fail, you are bound to feel somewhat guilty. I think that if you want to be protective it's better when your protection is invisible and subtle, never conspicuous. Well, this is my opinion.

... I also feel telling him might alleviate his feelings of responsibility. he blames himself completely for the break up and holds her completely blameless. when he has had some time to heal, and learns how fast she moved on to someone else, perhaps he will be able to put it in a little better perspective.

Well, now I get a new perspective here. You may be right wanting to tell the "truth" to him. But also prevent him from harbouring too much anger and hate towards this woman. I am not telling you to make her look good, but that she is probably a silly and stupid woman rather than really evil. Best of luck to your brother.
...

Last edited by pendulum; 05-02-2007 at 02:20 PM.

 
Old 05-02-2007, 02:27 PM   #8
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

Well, that's just it, he's not angry with her at all, he has no ill feelings toward her at all. I do wish he would get just a little angry, then he wouldn't see himself as such a loser. But I dont' want to tell him she's already with someone else just to paint her in a bad light to him, just first of all so he can take care of his health if he needs to, and second, so he can see it's not all his fault. He feels like it's all his fault and that he just wasnt' good enough for her. She wasn't a bad person and she was quality in that she wasn't a doper, she was a respectable suburban mom with a good job and nice friends and her kids were well taken care of and well behaved, etc. She was just demanding and somewhat selfish and I suspect she went into the relationship knowing that she wanted something other than what my brother was. If she loved him at all, it was for what she hoped he'd be one day, not for who he was in the here and now, and that's not his fault. I just hope in time he can see that, get his life a bit more on track, and get to a point where he can try again. Right now he's saying things like "I guess I'll just be alone - never going to find anyone that good again - I'm just meant to be alone forever." I just hope he can turn that around soon. thx

 
Old 05-02-2007, 04:24 PM   #9
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

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Originally Posted by Larrylou'smom View Post
Right now he's saying things like "I guess I'll just be alone - never going to find anyone that good again - I'm just meant to be alone forever." I just hope he can turn that around soon. thx
I have read all your posts over the months I have been here, and you have said much the same thing about yourself. Interesting, not-meaning-to-be-impertinent-just-curious, Sera

 
Old 05-03-2007, 08:46 AM   #10
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

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I have read all your posts over the months I have been here, and you have said much the same thing about yourself. Interesting, not-meaning-to-be-impertinent-just-curious, Sera
Yes, he's a Cancer and I'm a Pisces, the two most emotional, sensitive signs in the zodiac. Of course I don't want him to give up on love especially if he really wants to have it in his life, but who knows. Maybe neither of us was meant to be with someone. I look around and I see how easy it is for other people to hop from one person to the next like it was nothing, and his ex, already sleeping with someone less than three weeks after their break up, and here I am, hanging out in every club in town, spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on singles clubs and events and every online dating service on the internet, and nothing. Well, I can't say "not so much as a second date" anymore because I had a second date last weekend, but in any case, who knows. When you've had the love of your life and lose it, it's hard to start to picture yourself with someone else. In the 10 years that I have been post break up from the love of my life, I've only met one man in all that time, with the dozens and dozens of men I've met, that I connected with and that made me feel like I'd met someone special that I could reall spend time with. Unfortunately, he was married, so he wasn't an option at all and I couldn't do anything about it. But with his financial situation being what it is, the age that he is, he just feels so low. I don't know.

I hope he's not going to be one of those people who were meant to wind up alone, I hope I'm not either, but the truth is not everyone ends up happily married to their soul mate. Lots of people end up sad and alone. It just might be we both are meant to be those kind of people, who knows? Every experience like this makes it harder and harder to deal with people. it's like now I have such a chip on my shoulder, whenever I meet someone new I almost feel like "ok, so what are YOU going to do to f*** me over??" But I guess we'll see how it will all shake out.

 
Old 05-03-2007, 09:44 AM   #11
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

I'm a little confused about why your relationship with the friends has to be all or nothing. Couldn't you continue your friendship with the one woman you really like, and see her one-on-one? You mentioned that you won't like that she takes the ex's side, but do you even have to discuss it? There's probably a million other things you could talk about. Friends aren't always going to agree with us, and I think defining it as "taking sides" is not really going to do anyone any good.

I definitely understand your sympathy for your brother, but I think you might be personalizing it a bit. A breakup takes two people, and you only have his side. Whether she is with someone now or not doesn't really matter at this point. If you truly believe that she was sleeping with this person prior to breaking up with your brother, perhaps you could gently suggest to him that he see a doctor as a precaution, not because you know for a fact that she was cheating (since nobody does know this).

This might be a really great time for both of you to help each other.

 
Old 05-03-2007, 10:01 AM   #12
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

I have to agree with bulletproof. If you are concerned for his health please do tell him gently. Herpes can also lay dormant for many years and during times of stress or immune problems show up. And that wouldnt be good to find that out then because if he is with someone he might blame it on that person.

You have a right to be protective I am as well with my big sister. I am an overbearing mother of 4 who is 33 and treat my sister as tho she is my little sister. She and I just fell into those rolls. We are very supporitve of eachother and do the same for one another. And i dotn make excuses either LOL....If you love him and want to truely protect him then tell him what you know.

As far as the friends in the group. Personally I'm mean when it comes to protecting my sister and I wouldnt get along with anyone whom i saw dump my sister then be with someone else so fast so i wouldnt hang around any of them. Obviously the ex didnt say anything so poop on her because if she were truely a friend she would have said hi and kept talking to you. True freinds stick together. If you have questions about the one you really liked well tell yoruself this...does she treat you different? does she act different now with the ex around? if so then poop on her too. lol I have ONE friend I trust with my whole heart aside from my family. That's it. I talk to poeople but other than that just one. I like conversations but friends are a rare find if you really trust this one girl then figure out if she is for real and do what you have to do.

 
Old 05-03-2007, 10:59 AM   #13
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Re: Poopie and weewie choice, complicated, not sure if need advice, but input welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
I'm a little confused about why your relationship with the friends has to be all or nothing. Couldn't you continue your friendship with the one woman you really like, and see her one-on-one? You mentioned that you won't like that she takes the ex's side, but do you even have to discuss it? There's probably a million other things you could talk about. Friends aren't always going to agree with us, and I think defining it as "taking sides" is not really going to do anyone any good.

I definitely understand your sympathy for your brother, but I think you might be personalizing it a bit. A breakup takes two people, and you only have his side. Whether she is with someone now or not doesn't really matter at this point. If you truly believe that she was sleeping with this person prior to breaking up with your brother, perhaps you could gently suggest to him that he see a doctor as a precaution, not because you know for a fact that she was cheating (since nobody does know this).

This might be a really great time for both of you to help each other.
Yes of course I know a break up takes two, and that's the point I've been trying to make. My brother's side of the story is that it's all HIS fault, HIS fault, he takes all the blame. I try to tell him she was not perfect either, that in the long run she just wasn't the right one for him, but he will hear none of it.

As for remaining friends with the co-worker/friend, it just depends I suppose. When I do see the co-worker/friend, she asks me how my brother is doing, as she is concerned, so it is a common thread that we have. I am certainly not going to hide the fact that I am very disappointed with the ex, which she may have a problem with since the ex is her best friend. I suppose whether our friendship lasts will really be more up to her than up to me and whether she can stomache what I have to say and how I feel about her best friend. And just to be absolutely clear on this matter, I do NOT hold the ex responsible for making the decision to break up with my brother if this relationship just wasn't what she wanted. I don't even really hold against her the fact that she moved on so fast or so easily, well maybe a little, but not entirely. what I am really upset with, what really disturbs me most, is the fact that my brother was not mean at all, not bitter or nasty, all he did was kindly and gently tell her that he loved talking to her and misses her but he needs to move on and start healing and he simply can't start getting over her while continuing to talk to her. She could have, and if she ever gave a darn about him she WOULD have, said, "ok, I understand, I'm sorry you don't want to stay in contact, but if that's what you need, ok. Hopefully a few months or a year down the line we can at least run into each other and be friendly and civil. I wish you all the luck in the world." But she didn't say that. The only real reason I'm upset with her is that she chose to make it all about her yet again and get angry and pi$$y with him and say "fine, I won't call you again" and hung up on him, making him feel even worse, as she jumps in bed with someone new, all cozy and happy and hunky dorey. That's not someone who ever really cared about him. I know for a fact that she said that because I heard it not only from my brother but from the co-worker/friend. And I saw with my own eyes how cozy and happy she is with her new man, so where does she get off getting angry with my brother for his simply wanting to get just a little closer to where she already is and probably has been for over a month? She has her head up where the sun don't shine if she can't understand even a little bit why just the mere sound of her voice would be pulling the scab off the wound and making it bleed all over again for my brother, and he just needed to leave the scab on for a while so the wound can heal. D'uh!!! What is wrong with some people, doesn't she even have a heart at all? It was totally wrong of her to have held that against him. Period. That's what makes me want to kick her butt.

I agree that my brother's ex being with someone else now does not matter really, only that it's proof that she was never as emotionally invested in the relationship as my brother was if she needed no time to mourn or to heal like one usually needs after a break up. She obviously experienced no feelings of loss or sadness over the relationship and is perfectly fine, and was perfectly fine even before they officially broke up, which puzzles me since the co-worker friend told me that when my brother came over the ex's after the break up to drop off her keys, the ex called the co-worker friend and told her "I'm a basket case!" So I have absolutely no idea what's goin on in her little brain. All I know is, like I said, my brother blames himself and only himself for the break up. I try to tell him it takes two, and I hung out with them quite a bit during their relationship and I witnessed her being rather critical of him, and I talked to her myself about our mother and she made up her mind to hate our mother even before she met her, but all my brother can say is "I can't really blame her" for anything. The fact remains that the ex has totally fallen out of favor with me, and I don't intend to hold my tongue or pull punches regarding that. If the co-worker/friend is understanding of that, then I suppose we can still be friends one on one, since it really is just too painful to see the ex with her new man. I tried to get up and play guitar Saturday night in front of them and I started shaking uncontrollably and could hardly regulate my breath, my ears started pounding and even after I sat back down I couldn't stop my hands from shaking. I realized it was because I was so upset at seeing her so intimate with someone new soooo soon. It just showed me she never really cared that much for or about my brother, and that really hurts. I feel like she lied to me when she told me she cares soo soo much about him. And that's the one thing I simply can't abide, is being lied to. So I think if I do continue a friendship with the co-worker/friend, and if she wants to as well, it will have to be when the ex and her new man are not around.

Last edited by Larrylou'smom; 05-03-2007 at 11:03 AM.

 
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