Hi people; anyone who's read my recent 'abusive son' thread will know what's happening here.
I got a text about half an hour ago from my bf (or ex, or whatever the F he is to me now, I dont know) Here goes the conversation:
Him - "Rachel I need to get my rent card, dont mean to be annoying you and I know what you said (I had said the night he was collecting his stuff that he'd better get everything he gave a ***** about out of the house that night cause after he left I was going to have a merry old time tearing whatever he'd left belonging to him to shreads) but I forgot a couple of things I'd like to have (obviously the f---er knew I didnt have it in me to wreak his stuff) If it suits you I'll try to get them later today. Or if you'd prefer you can drop them up. Let me know.
Me - (trying to play it cool and not lose the head) If you list what you want I can drop them up to you shortly. I'm going out soon and will be on the motorway anyway. (this was actually true)
Him - Thank you. On top of your pc, my folder on security, under the stairs my folder from fourth year. On the side in the kitchen, my shaving set. My rent card. I think that's it but I'm not sure.
Me - You paid your rent last. Are you sure you gave me back your rent card? It's not in my handbag. The folder and files will have to wait because I can find neither. Only your shaving kit is here and you may as well wait until I've got the rest together. Thank you, by the way, for taking the harddrive when you knew all the music was on it. That was very decent of you and not mean spirited at all.
Him - I'm sorry. I honestly forgot. If you want you can borrow it and put the music on your pc or I can do it for you. Just let me know when you want it.
Me - If you think my major concern here is music you are very far wrong. My major concern is that my relationship is trashed because we came to an impossible impasse over our two kids. I dont have any credit left. I will look for your stuff and have it to you in the next day or two if that's ok.
Him - Rachel I've had a look in my wallet and I cant locate (locate - dont you just love the snazzy words when there's BS goin on.. ) my rent card. Will you have another look in your bag? I can get another, just dont want to be missing payments.
Well people, what do you make of this exchange??? I find it very noticable that when I mentioned our relationship he had nothing more important to come back at me with other than f--k-ing rent cards..
Do you think there's anywhere we can go from here? I'm dying to know from an outside perspective are there anything kind of subliminal messages I'm not reading in this exchange?? Please dissect it and have a look at what's been said here and tell me what you think.
I'm going out for a few hours now and am going to be caught in the height of the rush hour over his bloody files and folders etc; I'll be back in a few hours and hope there'll be some words of wisdom on this thread to keep me sane when I get back! Thanks in advance people!
Me - If you think my major concern here is music you are very far wrong. My major concern is that my relationship is trashed because we came to an impossible impasse over our two kids. I dont have any credit left. I will look for your stuff and have it to you in the next day or two if that's ok.
Geez, Laylah do you call THIS an invitation to talk??? You are lucky he has a bit of self-control and ignored it. What happened to "I hate what is happening to us, Can we please talk about it before we wreck a good relationship?"
And I underlined the my for good reason. Sera
Maybe I shouldn't be posting here, because I haven't followed the other thread about his son. Anyway...
Are you quoting the actual and exact words of your conversation with him? Or are you drawing them imprecisely from your memory?
I have formed the impression that he was quite detached in that dialogue. He sounded serious and resolute about his request: He seemed concerned about his "documents" only and didn't seem to want to talk about anything else that has happened, as if it was really the end of it all. You know, that was my impression.
However, you still seem to have hopes... He must have realized it, but chose to ignore it.
Sera's observation about the "my" was very astute: in your post you mention "our" relationship, but in the dialogue you say "my" relationship. So what was the word actually employed? Anyway, who can say that he really noticed the slip of your tongue?
in my past experience with telling my stbxh to "get out" i've had to be the one to ask him to talk and come back. if you want to know where your relationship is or is heading then just ask him to come over for a chat.
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Those who forget the past are destined to repeat it.
I haven't read the abusive son post either, but thought I'd throw in a quick two cents about the text convo..
He may not have replied to your comment about the relationship b/c he didn't want to get into a texting convo about something so important. Whether he wanted to say "this is over, i never want to see you again" or "there has to be somethign we can do," he probably bit his tongue and held back not wanting to get into it through texting. Maybe based on things you (may) have told him during other arguements or conversations, he's been given the impression that there is no saving the relationship, therefore commenting on your text would have been useless, and just stir up a repetitive arguement. If you've told him more than once that the relationship was over, then he may see no point in bringing the subject back up.
Laylah,
Maybe he just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Maybe in his mind the relationship is truly over and there's not reason to drag it out into the light and fight about it again. I am sure nothing has changed in the past short few days, so there is nothing to discuss as far as he is concerned. You are obviously still very mad and bitter over it and he can tell that by the tone of your text message. Now I am not saying you don't have every reason to be mad, but I think he's not going to budge about his son, and arguing with him isn't going to change that. You have one stand on it and he has another.
If I were in his position and was told to leave and be sure to take all of my stuff I wouldn't want to be the one to start the conversation. If you want to know where your relationship stands you may just need to bite the bullet and ask him.
But, like susieq said, he may not think anything has changed and therefore there is nothing to discuss. You each have very firm views and opinions on the matter and I think it may be one of those things that you may never get to see eye to eye on.
Whatever the case may be, you will never know his thoughts unless you talk to him Laylah. If you do decide to call him let us know how it goes.
Yeah in his eyes he is just doing as you asked. You told him to get everything he owned out of your house on the Friday night, and he did.
The thing is Laylah, your now angry that he did what you asked, but the problem is, don't forget men don't always think the same, we tend to say the opposite of what we really want, where they take what we say as literal. So I guess he's confused as to what YOU want.
I also think that he was formal and cool with you during the texting as he didn't want to start any conversation about your relationship via text messaging.
To me your partner is trying his very best to do things right by his son, your the one who told him to go, and take everything with him, so it sounds like he doesn't know where he stands with you Laylah.
There are far to many fathers who wash their hands of their kids, I think it is commendable that he is at least trying to help him...
Yeah in his eyes he is just doing as you asked. You told him to get everything he owned out of your house on the Friday night, and he did.
I also told him the following night I loved him and didnt want him to leave Brook, so by the time he'd turned up sunday night to collect his stuff I guess it was obvious he listened to what it suited him to hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brook65
There are far to many fathers who wash their hands of their kids, I think it is commendable that he is at least trying to help him...
So do I Brook, but I also think there are fathers for whom their 'kids' never grow up and adopt this 'peter pan' attitude towards them. The reality is a person of almost eighteen is not a very young child; they're a very young adult. Unfortunately my bf falls into both categories of fatherhood here.
I also think if a person feels they're old enough to throw a string of head butts into his own father face and then try to follow it up with trying to split his head open with a heavy cut glass ashtray, then they're old enough to get a job and somewhere to live and be self sufficient. When I was this youngfellas age I had my own apartment, a baby in my lap and was raising my younger sister.
This youngfella has an attitude that says he is entirely devoid of any responsibility, either for his behaviour or for his direction in life, and I really feel his father enables that attitude in him all the way.
Are you quoting the actual and exact words of your conversation with him? Or are you drawing them imprecisely from your memory?
No Pendulum, it was a text conversation and I've related it exactly. And yes, he was cold and standoffish; that's his usual routine whenever we have a row, big or small.
commenting on your text would have been useless, and just stir up a repetitive arguement.
Oh yeah, he's a big confrontation avoider, we've been down that road before.
I was relieved to note that he didnt deliberatly take the external hard drive with the music on it by the way; I thought at the time that that was petty and mean and really not like him at all.
I spoke to a friend of mine earlier and showed her the texts and she reckoned that he cant be as far out of the relationship as I fear if he's offering to come over and transfer the music onto my computer, but then that friend was female and our brains are wired up differently so I'd be interested to hear a male perspective on that. Pendulum??
I spoke to a friend of mine earlier and showed her the texts and she reckoned that he cant be as far out of the relationship as I fear if he's offering to come over and transfer the music onto my computer, but then that friend was female and our brains are wired up differently so I'd be interested to hear a male perspective on that. Pendulum??
You are defintely right about the difference in male and female wiring!! To a guy, him offering to transfer the music could simply be the decent thing to do... To a woman, his offering could be his way of staying in the picture, and excuse to come over, to talk, to see eachother, to get back together! Woman tend to make things much more complicated than they need to be. Usually- the simiplest road is the one taken. Woman hint around about what they are feeling.. men generally will come right out and say it. Woman also tend to over-analyse and feel the need to have the same conversation 8 billion times, just to make sure all angles were covered! Where a guy is much more black or white.
If he does want to patch things up and try again, he may be hesitant to say so b/c of things you said to him, or the ultimatum he was given- you or his son.
Do you want to work on the relationship? Are you willing to do anything you can to make things work, even if it means letting his son back in your life as well? If yes, then just tell him that. Don't play games, don't beat around the bush, dont wait for him to say it first.
If you're not willing to do whatever it takes, then let it end here, no matter what he has to say about it. There's no point hearing what he has to say if you're not willing or able to do anything to work things out.
If you need closure and have a few last things to get off your chest, then save it for a face to face moment.. no texting!!
If he does want to patch things up and try again, he may be hesitant to say so b/c of things you said to him, or the ultimatum he was given- you or his son.
I never gave him an ultimatum Jen, and I certainly never said "It's me or your son", or any words to that effect; that would have just been asking for trouble cause as a parent I know what I'd say if a man said that to me. What I said was that I couldnt live with his son 24/7, but that he was welcome to stay over a couple of nights a week (which I thought was pretty bloody decent of me after all the mayhem he's caused in this house) I insisted he'd have to live at his mothers most of the week, that he couldnt live here full time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jen52983
Do you want to work on the relationship?
Oh yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jen52983
Are you willing to do anything you can to make things work, even if it means letting his son back in your life as well?
Lord no, I cant live with somebody who behaves like an animal, and I certainly cant force that on my child again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jen52983
If you're not willing to do whatever it takes, then let it end here, no matter what he has to say about it. There's no point hearing what he has to say if you're not willing or able to do anything to work things out.
If "anything" involves living with his son then I guess I'll just have to let it go; if I was to go back there I may as well just book myself a bed in the local asylum and reserve my son a cell in prison cause that's where he'd end up with an influence like that in five years time!
I haven't read all of your posts, laylah, but flicked through a couple.
I agree with what others have suggested- if you want to talk, talk to him. I use to break up with my boyfriend and expect him to bring up the conversation of getting back together etc but he never did. Silly of me to expect so. Just talk to him.
I think things have been left unsettled...I think you should talk to him again. Maybe leave it a few days. Up to you. But talk to him, even if it is to gain closure. I think he would be stupid though to risk losing your relatonship over his uncontrollable son who ought to live with his mother. I think this is something that the two of you can work out if you want- if you both still love eachother.
[QUOTE=Laylah;3053725]I also told him the following night I loved him and didnt want him to leave Brook, so by the time he'd turned up sunday night to collect his stuff I guess it was obvious he listened to what it suited him to hear. <QUOTE>
Sorry I forgot that bit about you telling him the following night that you loved him. I guess your right, he is choosing to hear whats he wants to hear then. I just hope he's not using his son as an excuse to leave.
<QUOTE>So do I Brook, but I also think there are fathers for whom their 'kids' never grow up and adopt this 'peter pan' attitude towards them. The reality is a person of almost eighteen is not a very young child; they're a very young adult. Unfortunately my bf falls into both categories of fatherhood here.<QUOTE>
I know but I do think in this situation he did what he felt he should as a father. I doubt he is planning on this as a permanent arrangement, but just to help get him a little sorted if at all possible.
<QUOTE> I also think if a person feels they're old enough to throw a string of head butts into his own father face and then try to follow it up with trying to split his head open with a heavy cut glass ashtray, then they're old enough to get a job and somewhere to live and be self sufficient. When I was this youngfellas age I had my own apartment, a baby in my lap and was raising my younger sister. < QUOTE>
Yeah your right, but he just needs 'help' in getting there, and unfortuantely, his father is all he has, as his mother is obviously not fit as a drug addict to help him.
Personally I wouldn't see this as an end for you both, just a blip, once things have settled in a couple of days, I'm sure your be able to come to a compromise.
Thanks Brook & Apple; One thing I am sure of is that he wasnt using his son as an excuse to leave. One female friend of mine, her eyes nearly popped out of her head when I told her what'd happened. She just couldnt believe what she was hearing, because she knew how hot the sex had got between us this last while and knows I'm crazy about him and had only been commenting how well suited we seemed after spending some time in our company the other week... This situation is entirely comprised of his sons behaviour and our reactions to it. Maybe I should have tried my arse off to help his son; maybe I've done the right thing. I dont know and I guess it's one of those things you wont know until it's all over and you're looking back at it through the rear view mirror...
You said you never gave him an ultimatum? Doen't your son can't live here so get out of my house count as one? I'm not taking his side & I agree that you can't have that negative energy in your live but to me it sounds like you both need to take a deep breath and then approach the situation like another person said less hostile and not on text. Maybe ask to meet and say look I love you and I want to work on our relationship is that something you want to do or is it over? You've put enough emotion into this relationship that you should be able to be straight forward and ask. Don't lay blame because at this point it doesn't matter about fault. what's done is done the question is where do we go from here. My suggestion if he is willing to work on it is couples counselling.
Sex is sex it's not enough to support a relationship though it definately helps. I dont know of many adults that stay in a long term relationship just for good sex. And that yes is from personal experence, the best sex I ever had I said good bye to becuase the rest of the relationship (yes he was sooo good looking as well) wasn't enough to sustain a relationship together.
Yes, I am aware I am the only man on this thread - so far - but I presume there are other men out there looking on.
Anyway, I am afraid I can't give much definitive advice. Men are also different from one another. Usually they don't like ending relationships, but if a relationship ends, they are often too proud to make it start again. So, from a very general outlook, I think that if you have to make up with each other, it is up to you, the woman, to make the first movement towards it.
As for young people, all I can say that some of them change very quickly, sometimes overnight. So an abusive young man can suddenly turn into a decent man, if only something, which I can't entirely explain or understand, takes places - the stars and the planets? Or the right word or the right touch?
So, if your boyfriend is a decent man himself and if you really love him, I don't think you should end your relationship just because of his bratty son. He will eventually grow up and find his own way. I hope so. It may be only a question of patience. But I know: easier said than done.
Thanks Pendulum and Desmaggie; No, it's not all about sex, far from it; he's my best friend and has been for years. That's why I regard it to be unusual that I enjoy the intimate side of things so much, because I've been around the relationship block enough times now to know the two are rarely ever present to this degree in the one partner.
Also yes, sorry for attempting to generalise about men Pendulum, of course men are individuals; I guess you just get kind of desperate for an insight into the mans mind at a time like this!
As far as giving him an ultimatum is concerned, I really dont agree that I did that. If others (including him) feel I did then fair enough, but an ultimatum, as I understand it, would have been to suggest that he needed to choose between me and his son. I never said that. I said I couldnt live with his son and that while I fully supported him in helping him I just personally couldnt live with him full time anymore. He pushed and pushed and pushed to try to force me to live with him after I'd repeatedly said I couldnt, so if anyone is responsible for me telling my bf he was welcome to leave I feel he can take the burden of that responsibility on himself. I feel to try to force me to deal with that was an act of mental cruelty. I wouldnt force anyone I cared about to live with someone with a regular history of drunken and drug-induced violence and abuse.
Far before it got to the stage where I was nearly tearing my hair out with stress, he could have made efforts to see his son back in his mothers house, or a relative of his, (he's certainly got enough of them) or set up in a small apartment of his own. He never bothered. It's the 'peter pan' attitude that's responsible for that I reckon. He always has to be holding his sons hand for fear he’ll do something wrong. Talk about the boy who never grew up… I remember this time last year, before we lived together, his sons mother threw him out on another occasion and for those few months my relationship was very stressed because he literally couldnt stay at my house as his son couldnt be trusted not to have all sorts of degenerates in his home when his back was turned. That's another reason why I cant imagine this could work now. We'd only be back to that same stupid and awful situation again...
Geez, Laylah do you call THIS an invitation to talk??? You are lucky he has a bit of self-control and ignored it. What happened to "I hate what is happening to us, Can we please talk about it before we wreck a good relationship?"
And I underlined the my for good reason. Sera
I see, Laylah, that you still won't hear anything that makes anything like the point that you are NOW (forget about the boy's living with you, etc, that is a given -wrong, cannot happen, everyone agrees that it is not on) NOW maybe being extermely self-centred about the bf. He has done what you wanted, in terms he can live with. His knowledge and parenting skills, however non-existant, are not at issue here, he (feels he) CANNOT abandon his son. Bottom line. But, Laylah, it is still ALL ABOUT YOU, your relationship, your stuff. I will be harsh here, and say that if you have any love and compassion for this man, who is trying (in his own inept way) to be a decent father, you will climb down off that high horse of selfish indignation and bruised pride and give the poor man a BREAK. You have both said regrettable things, how come his every word is being held over his head, when he is supposed to forget the f word and ashtrays flung at his head. Yours,not doubt inviting scorn and wrath, but calling as I am seeing anyway, Sera
) my rent card. Will you have another look in your bag? I can get another, just dont want to be missing payments.
