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Old 10-11-2007, 04:08 PM   #1
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Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

I'm worried. I went to my therapist the other day & told her some of the things my husband has done in the past that has caused me to be concerned that he's cheating on me. She said that it appeared that he may have been but she tried to give me reasons why he might do those things. Here's a run down of what he's done. Guys if you've ever done some of these things to your SO & were cheating on them at the time, please let me know. Also, if you did these things & they were purely innocent, please let me know. I'm going to call the woman that I think he may have been with " Pam". Thanks!

He wanted me to let Pam borrow my cell phone because she was taking a 600mile trip alone & he was concerned for her in case something happened.

He talked about her a lot & at one time even told me that she had a funny sense of humor & she reminded him of me sometimes.

I was in our home town visiting my parents while he stayed home to work. That Friday he was suppose to leave work early, drive our RV back & come stay where I was. I talked to him around 10:00 that day to see when he was going to leave work. He said that it had been a really hectic day & he didn't know if would be leaving that day or early the next morning. Around 1:00 I called his work & I was told he left for the day. I called his cell phone & he didn't answer. I called our home phone & he didn't answer. The cell phone reception is horrible on the drive home so I figured he was on his way & just couldn't answer. As the afternoon turned in to evening I kept calling & still no answer. At bedtime I assumed he would be coming in the morning but I wondered why in the world he wouldn't return my calls.
The next morning he showed up where I was staying. When I began to question him about when he left work & why didn't he call me he told me that he didn't think he could come yesterday but then something happened at work that made him say screw it & he decided to leave so he would still have time to go to the bar at our home town so he could have a drink with his fellow employees. Pam is one of his fellow employees. When I asked him where he took the RV to sleep for the night he told me Sam's C parking lot. After we left my paren't house I told him that what he had done was really dishonest & that it hurt me very much. He argued that he had done nothing wrong & I was over reacting. He said that if I knew he was coming for sure that night I would have tried to interfere with him going out to the bar. That's not true because he went plenty of times without me giving a hoot. Then, later, he said that Pam liked the colors in our RV. I asked how did she know what colors were in it & he told me that at the bar, he told people what he drove down & Pam & this other guy wanted to go outside to see it.

One day when I was moving things around in our closet I looked into this big tin can that he kept spare change in. He had several cans of change & never kept them hidden from me. I noticed that there were all pennies at the top but it was full. I wondered if down further there were nickles, dimes & quarters. I dug my hand deep inside & I found that he had made a false bottom out of cardboard. Underneath were bills that totaled about $1500. Like a dummy I confronted him & he said that he had so much from saving birthday, Christmas & bonus money from work. I asked him why he felt the need to hide it from me & he said that he wasn't hiding it from me, he was hiding it from robbers. Mind you, I do not spend money needlessly & at that time we made plenty of money that I wouldn't take his stash anyway.

We have since moved back to our home town but he works for another company now. The company is in the same line of work as his old employer & he goes out to his old shop once or maybe twice a week.
He got a birthday card from someone who didn't sign their name. When he opened it up a bunch of used staples fell out all over. He started laughing & I asked him who it was from. He said that it was from Pam & he knew this because when he went to say hi to her at the office, he would take her stapler & push it several times to get her going because she was a neat freak. She signed the card from your favorite former co worker & she put a wrong return address on the envelope. Weird, huh?
OK, please tell me, what do you think??

 
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:27 PM   #2
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

Leelee, I am so sorry that you are going through this!! all of this behavior does sound very suspicious. As for Pam liking the colors in the RV, and seeing it the night that you could not get ahold of him, this would seriously worry me. How is your husband treating you? Is he distant and critical? The money thing would worry me to, did he have this cash to pay for dinners or gifts for this woman? I know that must be what you are thinking. My friend that believes that her husband is cheating on her with a secretary, is going through some of the same things that you mentioned. He is saying that he is working late, but then the overtime is not on his paycheck, and he blames it on the CO shorting his check. He is always talking about the secretary and how wonderful and funny she is, but only puts my friend down. He works 45 minutes from the town they live in, and the secretary lives 10 minutes from where they work, and she gets off at 5, and he will call my friend to say he has to stay after work and not come home until 10-11 pm. Also he suggested that they go for a drive one day and then pointed out the secretaries house to my friend. It is off the highway down 2 country roads, so How the h*** did he know where her house was unless he had been there. He also takes extra clothes with him to work in case it rains, yeah right!!. they have ran into this woman several times at stores and she will not look my friend in the face at all. Have you had contact in the past with Pam and found her to be uncomfortable around you? It is so hard to say whether this is more than a work related friendship or more. The B-day card is kinda strange, why would she put a wrong address? Do you know where she lives? Have you found anything else out of the ordinary that he may have? Does he have music CD's that were made not bought, anything like that. Alot of times women will make CD's for men with music that reminds them of times they have shared together. Have you looked through his glove compartment or center console under other stuff or possibly if he has a car that has the spare tire in the trunk, sometimes men hide things in there. last of all have you sat him down and got to the bottom of what this relationship really is to him, and how it is effecting you? As you already I had to just do this with my husband, so I will suggest it to you to. Good luck and keep in touch, sincerely, Nikki

 
Old 10-11-2007, 09:25 PM   #3
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

You say he has done these things in the past. How are things now? It sounds entirely possible that inappropriate stuff was going on at that time. Any sort of hiding and unexplained stuff would be a red flag indicating this. If it is all over and done with now, ask yourself if you really want to confront the facts, and what you want from knowing about it. If a clearing of the air and moving into knowing where things stand is what you need, then sit down, lay it all out for him and ask him to explain. You may choose to believe that there was no actual sexual misbehaviour (and there may well not have been), and that he was going through something and has repented, settled down and come back to you, wishing to put it behind him and make amends by being a committed husband again. In this case, maybe it would be better to leave it lie. I have seen this work out where one stray was forgiven and (mostly) forgotten. If there is still stuff like this going on, though, then all bets are off, jump on him about it.

 
Old 10-11-2007, 09:36 PM   #4
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

Nikki,
My husband knows of my suspicion because I always tell it like I see it. Before we moved from this state to go to work for a sister company of the one he worked with Pam at, I told my then therapist about my suspicion. She told me that there were a lot of flags that he was having an emotional affair with Pam but for some reason she didn't think they were having sex. This was before he did the RV thing, I found the money thing & the birthday card thing. He would go to the bar almost every Friday night & there were a few times I just showed up to see what was going on. One night I walked in & he was sitting at a booth with a guy he worked with. When he saw me his face lit up & he was really glad to see me. I sat down next to him & we started to talk. A few minutes later Pam came back from the bathroom & sat next to the other guy. My husband reached under the table & gave her her purse. I instantly was pretty ticked off about it & I wasn't very nice. I only stayed a few more minutes & said I needed to head home because I'd had a crappy day at work. Then whenever I'd go I thought she acted funny but that could be because I was snotty before. One time my friend & I were at a store & Pam walked almost ran right into us. I couldn't tell for sure if she saw us but I wanted my friend to see her because I had told her about my suspicion. Pam looked straight ahead & seemed to be on a mission. She was really walking fast like she was trying to escape. My friend thought I was being paranoid about her wanting not to run into me.
At the beginning of my husband's friendship with Pam I was seeing a therapist for some PTSD symptoms I was having from a botched breast reduction. My husband was working WAY too much, & we were growing apart. Well, I thought I was falling in love with this therapist & I'm sure I was talking about him way too much too. I was feeling guilty for feeling that way but my friend was trying to get me to tell the therapist. She thought it was normal for me to get attached to him. I was working up the nerve to tell him about the same time he told me that he would be moving in a few weeks & he wanted me to see someone else for therapy. Even though he was going to be there for 2 more weeks, he wanted to terminate our therapy that day. Well, that messed me up BIG time! This is about the time that my husband was acting like he & Pam were more than office friends. So I partly blame myself for it if he did have an affair with her. But then we moved away for 5 years & that's when the RV thing, the money thing & just last December the birthday card thing happened. My husband treats me like I'm a princess 95% of the time but the other 5% he treats me like I'm an idiot, lazy & in April he slapped me on the back of the head because he was mad at me. SO I have a lot to work through. My session with my therapist was pretty intense the other day because I told her about his past abuse. He has a hot temper but it's been much better since he started taking paxil. As far as talking to him, I told him years ago that my therapist said his behavior with Pam was suspicious & that she didn't think they were having sex yet but that there were some big red flags. Well, he was ticked at my therapist for that. He has never directly told me that he has been faithful to me until after I started therapy with my new therapist. I talked about how in the past he has hurt me & I have to work through it. He told me that's a 2 way street & I've hurt him plenty too. I thought he was talking about thinking I loved my male therapist & he said that wasn't it. He said it's how I accuse him of having affairs all the time. He told me that I should realize that out of all the men we've known through the years, he's the most honest, loyal, dedicated, faithful husband that he knows of. So then I feel bad for thinking he's messing around. I posted this because I want to have a guys perspective about the things he's done. I don't think men want to post because they're kind of taking care of their own, ya know? If I had money hidden somewhere I'd hire a private detective to follow him for a week. In a few weeks, I'm going out of town with my friend & her hubby because her sister lives in the same town that my sister lives & they're willing to let me tag along for the ride. If I could stay home secretly for the first few days & fly to visit my sister without him knowing it, I would. My friend would let me stay at her house, I'm sure. I've read that that's the way to catch a cheater. Tell them you have to go out of town for some reason but really stay in town. Then sneak home in the next night or 2 to see if you can catch them in the act.
Well, it's late. I'd better get ready for bed. Thanks for your post, I was beginning to think no one was going to.
Take care!

 
Old 10-12-2007, 02:02 AM   #5
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

Hi my friend,
You are going through a difficult patch partly because you have messed up your therapy sessions and you have moved town.
You also seem to have low self esteem( who doesn't?) which resurfaces every time you feel low( for example when your therapist terminated the sessions) and seem to read too much into your husband's behaviour.
I am sorry I cannot tell you whether he is cheating on you or not.
But I would tell you to look at yourself first a little more lovingly and relax into some things you really enjoy.This should make you feel better and increase your confidence in yourself and your abilities and reduce your anxiety about your relationship.
You also seem to feel guilty about the feelings you have had towards your former therapist( which are very common and very normal) and needed to work out your quilt by reading suspicious signals into your husband's behaviour.(???)

If he did cheat, it could have been harmless and very short lived. Certainly he is still with you. You also cheated with him in you mind, haven't you?
These things happen. I do not personally adhere to the school of thought which says that if one makes a mistake he is never to be given a second chance.
I believe in forgiveness and I have done it and have survived and I feel stronger because of it..
I suggest you stop looking at what he does and start looking at how good YOU feel about yourself and work out on your self esteem a little more attentively.
I am sorry if I cannot be of help.
God bless you

 
Old 10-12-2007, 02:06 AM   #6
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

My husband treats me like I'm a princess 95% of the time but the other 5% he treats me like I'm an idiot, lazy & in April he slapped me on the back of the head because he was mad at me. SO I have a lot to work through.

I don't get why you have a lot of work to do if HE hit YOU. Isn't it he who has a lot of work to do? His coping strategy with frusteration with you is violence. Why do you need to work on it? If part of your therapy is learning how to numb yourslef to accept his violence and verbal abuse, I say stop therapy save your money for a way to leave him. why doesn't he stop taking paxil (not sure eactly what kind of pill that is) and maybe take up group therapy himself for treating women as objects/second class?

and come on, you had legit concerns that you were open with and he makes YOU feel guilty (saying you should know he is the most honest, loyal guy) for havig concerns? he should have been reassuring and supportive and you fears would have probably gone away. his manipulation is in effect, a numbing response as well, indicating YOU have something wrong in YOUR head-more therapy.

he sounds defensive and controling. I would definitely stick to my guns here and not be afraid to tell him your concerns and to tell him he needs help (unless of course you feel like he would be violent). Have you tried calling a women's transition house in your area? they usually have info on male violence/control, and lots are anti-professional so you can skip the 'objective therapist and crazy patient role'.

 
Old 10-12-2007, 06:28 AM   #7
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

I honestly can't tell you whether or not he cheated on you just emotionally or sexually. What I can tell you is that I would be very suspicious of that behavior.

So how have things been lately? When was the very last incident? Is he still in contact with Pam, even if it is just unsigned birthday cards from fake addresses (very shady btw!)?

I don't see why you are the one who has a lot to work through here either. He is the one who was acting suspiciously and made you not trust him. He is the one that hit you. He may treat you like a princess 95% of the time, but it seems that's how he gets you to forgive him and turn the other cheek.

I don't think you are every going to get him to admit truthfully to anything to do with Pam. He finds it easier to blame you and your insecurities and your therapist for planting these ideas in your head. He doesn't seem like a man who will take ownership for his wrong doings. If that is what you are looking for to gain closure in this situation I don't think you are ever going to get that to happen.

I think what you really need to do is decide whether or not you can ever trust him again. What if Pam came back into the picture or some equivalent female coworker? Would you be able to trust him and go through that situation again? If you can't trust him and communicate with him your feelings without being belittled by him I don't see how you can have a successful marriage. Maybe that is just me, but I think you deserve far more than he has given you.

I probably wasn't much help at all, I just hate to see you blaming yourself for this. Nobody deserves to be treated that way by there spouse. I hope you realize that you deserve so much better and you demand that of him.

 
Old 10-12-2007, 07:02 AM   #8
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

It definately sound like he is trying to minipulaye the situation and put the blame on you, and you are accepting this blame because of your feelings for the past therapist that you fell for. His "affair" with Pam were not started because you confided in a therapist. I would suggest that from now on you have female therapists though, since it is so easy to get attached to the oppostie sex. My friend that has recently opened her eyes to the fact that her husband is cheating again, has been confiding in a physical therapy tech, she talks to him while he is doing her PT and he was cheated on and left his wife a year ago. My friend has completely fallen for this guy in just 2 weeks of PT because he can relate to what she is going through. I told her that I would not recommed doing this, that she has already formed an emotional affair with this guy. It all started just with him being nice and friendly to her. she said that she had forgotten what it felt like to have someone be nice to her. Anyway, stay away from confiding in men, even therapist. Your husband doesn't need any more reasons to blame you for HIS infidelity. As for the Pam at the bar thing, him handing her purse under the table is a complete deception. SHE was sitting on his side, and HE did try to hide it from you. And just because there was another guy there doesn't mean anything. Men have their "code" they will cover up and give alibi's for each other until Hell freezes over!! She was with your husband, not this other guy, and you know this for a fact. You definately should try to figure out a way to stay in town and see what he does. Yes, I do believe in forgiveness. I have just forgiven my husband for having an "emotional" affair, but if I ever find out that he slept with his boss, He is out the door,, the emotional part has hurt enough. But as for this hitting you, it is never acceptable for a man to hit a woman in ANY WAY, this is unacceptable, and small smacks can eventually lead to bigger ones. He is not only hurting you mentally, by blaming HIS actions on you, but he is being physical, HE is the one that needs help. You "fixing" yourself is never going to change him!! Nikki

 
Old 10-12-2007, 08:14 AM   #9
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I'll try to answer some of your questions & then give you more information so you can understand my situation better.

Him handing her purse under the table is a complete deception. SHE was sitting on his side, and HE did try to hide it from you.He handed it to her over the table. Sorry for the confusion. The fellow that was with them weighs around 300 lbs & I wondered if that could be 1 of the reasons she wanted to sit by my husband.
I would suggest that from now on you have female therapists though
I've only had female therapists since but presently I'm seeing a male Psychiatrist for my prescriptions. I know the signs now to watch out for & if I start to become enamored with him I'm going to tell him so we can work on why I do that.

Is he still in contact with Pam? Yes, he goes out to where she works quite often although I really can't say how many times a week.
What if Pam came back into the picture or some equivalent female coworker?
She is in the picture. I'm also suspicious of another woman at my husband's current job. He's supervising a house that she's having built & he talked about her a lot too. He told me that she gave him some information about how under payed he is at this company & when I asked him how she had the nerve to say that at the office with other people there, he said that it was at 6:00 in the morning when no other people were around. She is office staff & there's no way she would have to come in that early. So I questioned him about that & he told me that they met to go out to her land because they had an appointment with the county guy. Earlier he had told me that that appointment was at 12:00 & they guy was late & he couldn't stay because he had another appointment in town at 1:00. When I told my present therapist about it she said that sometimes when people know someone doesn't trust them they get nervous & try to remember what they said in the first place. She said that this doesn't mean that they are lying. Tell that to a police investigator, eh? One time I found a long reddish brown hair in the dryer after I'd done his wash. I gave him crap about it & he told me that it looked like a client's hair who he had been doing some touch up work on her house. A few weeks later his employer had a company party & later it dawned on my that it could have been this office worker's hair. She has a boyfriend from out of town & he stayed the night in the motel with her after the party, if that makes any difference.
So how have things been lately? When was the very last incident?
He has been super wonderful. I'm very sick with my chronic fatigue, depression & fibromyalgia & he's so supportive.
The very last incident that I know of with Pam is the birthday card.

You are going through a difficult patch partly because you have messed up your therapy sessions and you have moved town
Part of the reason I wanted to move was because I really thought he was messing with Pam & he would have a lot less contact with her if we moved out of state.
I do not personally adhere to the school of thought which says that if one makes a mistake he is never to be given a second chance. I agree. That's why we've been married for 28 years.
You also cheated with him in you mind, haven't you? Yes & according to God's Word I am as guilty as if I had sex with this man. One thing though that's strange. I never thought of actually having sex with him. I just wanted to run away with him so he could "fix" me. As for feeling guilty myself & wanting to make it better (in my mind) by wondering if he was cheating...I wondered that myself & I talked it over with my therapist & my friend & we thought it could very well be that. But my therapist said that it still didn't change the fact that he was showing some pretty strange behavior in regard to Pam.

I don't get why you have a lot of work to do if HE hit YOU
What I meant is that I have some tough decisions to make & I must be prepared to leave him if he hits me again. We have a history of abuse starting after our first son was born. That dates back 26 years. I insisted that he go to anger management sessions & we did counseling together. Things were better for a while although the mental abuse has always been there. During the time I was seeing the male therapist, my husband got mad at me because I couldn't help him put a door on our new shed. It was super heavy & he expected me to be able to lift it off the ground & hold it while he put the screws in the hinges. I struggled with it awhile & he called me a wimp & he could do it better himself & told me just to get out of there & LEAVE!! I looked right at him & said, "Bleep YOU." He had a screwdriver in his hand & he hit me on top of the head pretty hard with the handle of it.
After the male therapist moved, I went to one of his female colleagues. She suggested that I ask my husband to go back to anger management or I should think about leaving him. My husband did go but he said that it was stupid & the counselor was a dumb a**.
Speaking of dumb a**es, I have to go meet my husband at the doctors office in 45 minutes so I'd better go.
Again, thank you for all of your input. It DOES help me!!

 
Old 10-12-2007, 08:37 AM   #10
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeleelanilou
I'm also suspicious of another woman at my husband's current job. He's supervising a house that she's having built & he talked about her a lot too. He told me that she gave him some information about how under payed he is at this company & when I asked him how she had the nerve to say that at the office with other people there, he said that it was at 6:00 in the morning when no other people were around. She is office staff & there's no way she would have to come in that early. So I questioned him about that & he told me that they met to go out to her land because they had an appointment with the county guy. Earlier he had told me that that appointment was at 12:00 & they guy was late & he couldn't stay because he had another appointment in town at 1:00.
This is really suspicious too. It sounds to me that he lies (or tries to hide things) so much that he can't keep all of his stories straight. Sorry!

I could just be really cynical, but I have my exhusband the benefit of the doubt every single time I thought he was up to something. He always made me feel crazy for doubting him and so I would convince myself to believe him. I felt so foolish when lightbulb finally went on in my head! If your gut is telling you that something isn't right and his actions are mirroring what your gut is telling you then you need to get to the bottom of it. You said that this has all been going on for years, so there is no way he is going to come clean on his own. Just be careful with what you believe and try to get all of the facts that you can. If he is anything like my ex then he lies so much it is his reality!

 
Old 10-12-2007, 01:21 PM   #11
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

I just talked to my husband about work & asked him if he knew what was going on at his old job in the other state. That's always the way I bring up the subject to find out if he's been out to his former employer where Pam still works. With some gentle prodding I found out that he knows THIS about Pam, She still lives on the same street that she lived on when we moved, it was not the street that she wrote on the return address on her card, she's still living with her "boyfriend" but she will never marry him because it's a relationship of convenience. She doesn't ever want children. She & her "boyfriend" sleep in separate rooms & use separate bathrooms. My husband found all this out directly form Pam. He states that he found out about her sleeping arrangements while he was out at work & he, Pam & others were standing around talking. So I don't know if that happened before we moved to the other job or if it happened since Jan. of '06. That's when we moved back here & he started working for another company.
My therapist thinks that my husband needs to go to therapy for his childhood upbringing before he'll get his anger issues under control. When I told you all that she said sometimes people feel pressured to get the story straight then they get nervous & mess up a perfectly honest story, I was talking about the meeting with the new co worker. He claims to be a totally honest person & he hates being lied to but I know better. His mother use to lie all the time & I think he learned it from her. I'm not a well person, I have Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue & depression. All of these sometimes makes my memory a little fuzzy. So when he says he didn't say this or that, I really have to focus to remember what in the heck he DID say to me. Please, give me your opinions, out of all of the things that I have told you, do I sound like I'm paranoid about him being unfaithful?
Well, this has exhausted me. I need to rest now. Thanks all!

 
Old 10-12-2007, 01:31 PM   #12
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

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Originally Posted by leeleelanilou View Post
Please, give me your opinions, out of all of the things that I have told you, do I sound like I'm paranoid about him being unfaithful?
Not one bit leeleelanilou! I think you have right and reason to feel the way you do. I mean honestly, who talks about their sleeping arrangements with their coworkers? That is just absolutely innappropriate and ridiculous. If my husband came home speaking of his coworker's sleeping arrangements (female or male) I would find it very odd that it was somehow brought into the conversation.

My ex use to claim he hated lying too and would constantly ask me the same questions over and over again to try to catch me in a lie. He was the one who was always lying, and when he would get caught he would lie some more.

I'm sorry, but the whole situation you find yourself in just sounds so bad. Again, I know I could be very cynical given my past. I just think there is too much shadiness for this to all be completely innocent. She knows the inside of your RV and now he knows her sleeping arrangements. What's next, her favorite sexual positions?

 
Old 10-12-2007, 02:01 PM   #13
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

WOW HappyMom! I guess you call it as you see it! That's what I asked for & what I need so thank you for that.

 
Old 10-12-2007, 02:14 PM   #14
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Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

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WOW HappyMom! I guess you call it as you see it! That's what I asked for & what I need so thank you for that.
I do have a way of being a little blunt about things.

I hope you are not offended. I just hate to see someone ignoring (for lack of better word) what is right in front of his face. If it were all innocent you wouldn't be having these "feelings".

 
Old 10-12-2007, 02:24 PM   #15
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leeleelanilou HB User
Re: Opinions from Men & Women, Please.

No, I'm not offended at all. I wonder what my husband would think if I showed him all of these posts? Or if I told him that I have had 2 therapists that think he might be cheating on me? If my suspicions continue, I'm going to ask him to go to a session with me & then I'll talk to him about things in front of my therapist. Every time I go he wants to know how it went & what some of the details were so I think he would go if I didn't tell him before hand what we needed to work through.

 
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