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Old 10-28-2007, 05:15 AM   #1
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Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Im sure this will be long, but I will try to sum it up the best I can.. I met my wife at the age of 17 she was 19... We met and it was great, We did everything together.. we both were only concerned with each other.. It was as if we were the only two people in the world. It was fantastic, about 5 months later we were happily living together, everything was perfect we would have small occasional fights but nothing ever major. and a hour later we would be back to the perfect relationship.. Fast forward a year later Everything still great, we were talking about marriage, a couple months later she was pregnant and we were very excited. our marriage was scedueled and was 2 months after her due date. Everything was just perfect. We had our first child. a baby girl.. And thats about when everything started changing. The fun, loving, open girl I knew, changed into a very concerned, controlling, person.. not in a really bad way, but was very uptight about small things. we didnt really talk to my mother so she wouldnt let any photos taken of our daughter that could get back to my mom. We had a fight with my father and the same thing happened. It got to the point I had to ask to take my daughter to places, could allow certain people to take pics. she didnt like me taking my daughter to my sisters.. ect.. I think slowly in my head I knew I was the father but wasnt in other way. our relationship started suffering, I started becoming more distant from her, and our daughter. I felt left out as if I use to have 100% of her attention and now had maybe 5%. I knew she cared and had to give all of her attention to our daughter but it just never ended. I would expect to get the attention I use to get when our daughter was sleeping ect.. but didnt.. I found myself very unhappy at home and started finding other things to do. including just going to friends houses, working on other peoples cars, ect... There really was no communication, and It just got worse. we then had our son, our relationship problems made a very hard pregnancy for her. then a couple hours after delievery he stopped breathing and had to be transported to a childrens hospital. it was a very hard time for us, but I really feel as those couple of days in the hospital we bonded alot. our son was then released from the hostpital and we all went home. I think everything was a little better for a couple months then found ourselfs in the same boat.
Finally a couple years later I think I kinda grew up from the life I was living. (which really was that bad, I never went to clubs, Im 26 and have never been to a bar) I would just hang out with friends at there homes or work on people cars or my own.. ect..) It was truely innocent but maybe wrong.
I work a lot of hours, and started trying to spend my one day off with her and the kids, sometimes something comes up and i help someone out on my day off. I only have one day off a week. I am a sole provider she wanted to be a stay at home mom. I dont complain about it I just wanted to make her happy. But still things didnt change. I still felt as if I didnt have her attention. I felt let down everday I would come home, and she would be wearing the same pajamas just watching tv.. ect I use to come home and have to make dinner, which was bothering me. I started asking her if she could make dinner so I wouldnt have to I get home normally around 7pm and didnt enjoy having to spend the hour making dinner, then to relax a hour and then go to bed. I also took her out to get new pajamas. I bought thosands of dollars on clothes for her in the past in hopes she would start wearing them. she normally just wears sweat pants and it bothered me. Well she started making dinner and for a couple months started wearing her other pajamas I rarely ever see her in normal clothes. about a year ago she started trying to go out with other people ect... It bothered me a little bit, but then got me very upset when I noticed how much she puts into this she would plan things, come up with the money for it, find a babysitter, and even get dressed. all the clothes I bought for her that I dreamed of seeing her wear she only wears when shes going out with other people. she doesnt go out with other guys thank god, but a couple weeks ago she went out for dinner she left around 6pm they went about 10 min away and she called at 8pm and said she would be home soon.. She didnt get home intill almost 2am.. the one night a week im off she goes out and doesnt come home intill 2am.. I was very mad. which got her mad and we fought about it. reciently she asked if I wanted to go bowling after work.. I told her no.. because I was working 12 hour days I was very tired and didnt feel like throwing a 15lb ball all night. I had to go into work early the next day.. well instead she decieded to go to the movies with one of her friends I came home from work saw she was all dressed, hair was up she had makeup on.. then she said hey im going to the movies.. Go figure why would she get dressed if she wasnt going out? anyway she went to the movies with a friend to watch saw 3... Kinda got me upset because we both enjoyed the first two and I thought we were going to see the 3rd together. I felt as if she just didnt think about me. she went to see it around 7pm then called around 8:30 and said she didnt get to that show so they were going to the 9pm show. she got home around 11:30 I was still very upset she went.. She always talks about how we do nothing together but its hard for me to plan something, come up with the money to do it, and find a babysitter. but she always does these things when shes going out with other people.. she never plans anything for us.. A month ago I asked her to plan something for us to do, something different that we could both enjoy. she never did.
well when she came home that night we had a fight, and basicly it came down to she loves me but im not the person I use to be I changed. and because of that she hasnt felt the same way she use to. we can never go back to were we use to be because she doesnt have the feelings for me she use to. I just dont really know what to do. we talked about it, and thats where it ended. So Is it just hopeless. She cant make me happy and what i did 4 years ago made her uphappy.. ect.. I cant change the past and she cant either. She said Im to controlling and wont let her do anything she wants to do. she feels as if Im trying to control everything she does including what clothes she wears. I know maybe I was wrong for doing that. I was just looking for attention.. As I said before when shes going out with other people she gets dressed ect.. When ever I would bring up getting dressed it was always like "Oh i dont feel like it", or "I dont really feel good" ect.. I dont know if theres anything I can do to make this better. other then letting her do what ever she wants, ignoring all and being unhappy myself.
I dont think Im really controlling we have fought about things.. in which I demanded she would stop or Id leave her.. those things I feel strongly about and still dont regret what I said.. these things are opening a ******* page, (in which some guy started trying to get with her on it).. I made her stop talking to my cousin (guy) truelly because I dont really know him, and she would talk to him for hours everyday.. I felt unconfortable... shes a very outgoing person who talks alot, is very loud. and is always the center of attention.. I just dont know what to do.. thought maybe if I vent on here I could get some other opinions.

 
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Old 10-28-2007, 05:28 AM   #2
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

My opinion...if you are sincere about saving this relationship, then try to get her to see a good couples therapist with you. It seems the two of you are stuck at some kind of stand-off and need a 3rd party to ease you through to the next chapter.

Best of luck to you, I know it's painful.

 
Old 10-28-2007, 05:43 AM   #3
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Hi J712,

I'm probably not the best person to give you advice since I never had children. What I can say is what I have observed from my sister's marriage and very good friend's marriages when they started to have children.

Everything changed. The husband no longer received the attention he had prior to children. The wife's life has changed, she has new responsibilities that she maybe wasn't prepared for. Her life is now divided between her children and her husband.

I have seen marriages go downhill after the children were born. I have also seen marriages improve at the same time! The reason I think they improved was because the husband and wife "made time" for each other.

Is there anyway you could spend more time with your wife? Plan on taking some time off from work and asking your wife on a date? Plan it out, both of you need time alone away from the kids.

How do you talk to your wife? Are you gentle with your words? Do you say things like "Honey, I know our marriage has changed after the kids and perhaps we can spend more quality time together?" I miss the way we used to be... have you opened your heart to her? Women need to hear these kind of words....

I'm sure others will be able to give you better advice,
Sunny

Last edited by sunnyrise; 10-28-2007 at 05:50 AM.

 
Old 10-28-2007, 06:07 AM   #4
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

It seems like you are both good people that have become sidetracked to what is important in your life. Both of you were very young when you got together and had children. Now you are parents and the children's welfare has to come first. It is understandable that you both need the love and attention of the other and that is possible even after children. Perhaps you need a third party like a therapist to counsel you. If both of you could spend time with the children when they are up then plan a candlelight dinner or something you both enjoy together. You don't even have to go out to do something special together. We all have needs and sometimes putting the other person first actually fills your needs too. If you think you cannot regain what you had in the past remember your parents now and you can have a very fulfilling relationship as parents and lovers too. It takes time and effort but it can be done. Seeing your children grow and become happier because their parents are happy will do wonders for everyone.
I don't understand why the grandparents are not allowed to have pictures of the children though. It is a selfish act to keep them from knowing the grandparents. I wish you well.

 
Old 10-28-2007, 07:34 AM   #5
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Thanks for all the replies...
To answer a couple questions, We reciently went to get consoling it went fairly well, but after 3 visits we just kept hearing the same thing.. We dont communicate. I believe the dr. was right on with that and I know I was a big part of this as when something would bother me I just didnt talk about it. I would just keep it inside, which would cause me to be unhappy for hours, or days intill I could just let it go... The problem is when I do try to communicate it just always turns into a fight. If I say hey listen this is really bothering me. It just starts a fight.. I have sence been comunicating when things bother me but as i said it always turns into a fight.
I would love to get what we use to have back.. I told her that, And she basicly said she misses it to but, she cannot be the person she use to be because she lost those feelings for me a long time ago because of my actions. and I cant change the past.
It almost feels like we both know what we need to do. I have tried to change tried to do everything she asked, but its almost like she will never go back to the person who made me feel special. I cannot change the past, only try to change our future. I cant do that alone.. and from my understanding she cant help with that anymore.
For a while it felt as if we both had needs and for some reason neither of us wanted to bend without the other one bending first. I have realized that and tried to bend. but not seeing any positive results just makes me loose that ambition.
I would love to do special things together. we dont get to do that much.. Heres the issue, Everything we do I plan, pay for ect... I dont mind paying or planning for it. but I see her plan and pay for things that she does with her friends. but she wont do that for us. As I posted in the first post I wrote her a note one morning before work asking her to plan something... it was up to her, something we could both find fun, something different. ect.. I wrote it didnt have to be anything crazy, It could of been at home ect... she never did. when I asked her about it a couple days ago she said "Well I know you wanted to do something that would require intamacy and I have no desire for it".. So i feel as if why should I plan something when she wont? the past dozen of things we done I planned. She will once in a while invite me to things, but its always things she know I cannot do. for instance she wanted to go to california to see a talk show. We live in NJ I couldnt take off work for a week to go see a talk show. then she brings that up when I ask her why she doesnt ever plan anything she'll say "I include you in things and you dont want to do them" theres other things as well that I simply couldnt do.

The whole picture thing... Its kinda a long story but now that has changed due to the fact we talk to my mother now. That was only a example from the past. it was just to kinda of explain how she was. only certain people could see our daughter, hold our daughter take pics ect... not that she was a bad person she was just so uptight.

Being gental with words... Yeah kinda of, I mean I try.. Sometimes I am and sometimes im not. It all depends. When she gets all dressed up and goes out with other people. Im normally not gental with words. As I sit at home thinking about it for hours. it gets me so fustrated, that by the time she gets home and I try to talk about it Im already furious, then she'll turn it around that im being controlling and that gets me even worse. I try to get her to understand by telling her to put her self in my shoes. Ill explain the whole situation in reverse as if Im her and shes me. Most of the time it will work but then out of no where turn into a fight about something I did.

I sometimes think maybe Im wrong, Maybe we both should be going out Im often invited to go out with friends, I never do.. I think about the time I would miss at home, and that fact I would feel so bad to do that without my wife. I just thought she should feel the same way. Its obvious we dont think a like. When I tried to explain that to her she said I was lying because I do things for other people often... I reciently wired a friends home for them. it took me a couple days. and so she believes that accounts for me going out so she should be able to. That to me wasnt fun I helped him because I know if I needed help he would help me. now the house is all done, him and his parents wanted to take me out for dinner the one night. I declined thinking about how I would miss that time at home. That was the same night I got home to see my wife dressed only to find out she was going to the movies with her friend.
So maybe Im wrong and maybe I need to lighten up? I dont know if it will help were already so deep into issues that I cant change.

 
Old 10-28-2007, 07:47 AM   #6
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

...I just dont know what to do.. thought maybe if I vent on here I could get some other opinions.[/QUOTE]

I'm married and have two small kids, so I can relate to a lot of the things you are bringing to the forum. I can testify that kids indeed transform, sometimes even abruptly, sometimes beyond recognition, the relationship between spouses. And I can also say that sexual encounters become more sparse and concerns about money may get the upper hand in the home life, so to say. It also often happens that you ask yourself: "This is not the person that I once married. I had no idea that he/she was that way." And it's natural for you to feel betrayed.

I think all marriages go through these phases, and since most people aren't prepared to cope with these developments, including their own personal developments, and with the surprises, shocks and boredom that are implicitly included in the "marriage package", no wonder so many marriages end up in cheating, abuse and finally divorce.

I see, however, as a positive thing the fact that you want to rescue your marriage, even if you don't know where to start. You must, however, be aware that rescuing your marriage doesn't mean bringing it back to the time you were living in paradise (that's an utopia), but rather to a condition where you still can trust each other, plan the future (not only the children's, but your own), share your worries and have some fun together. The first pre-condition is to acknowledge that we are both no longer the same. To accept the changes is the next step.

It's clear to me that you are going through a long marriage crisis. Is the other part aware of it? Does she want to do something about it? Have you talked to her precisely in these terms (please, let's try to save our marriage)? Don't be ashamed to ask. Use the sweet words Sunnyrise was referring to, but be firm. If she agrees to your proposal, then half the battle is won. The third step is to implement a plan perhaps with the help of a third party and new experiences.

If she yet will shun from any compromise, either she is too stressed and exhausted (in this case you may need a doctor and some more time) or it may be time to spend some time away from each other.

Good luck.

 
Old 10-28-2007, 08:31 AM   #7
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Thanks for the reply..
I do know she had said before she is exhausted. I do want to make it work, but as I said before Im trying to be the way I use to be but she needs to bend as well. I cant pretend to be happy everyday when Im not..
The things that bother me are really simple, but yet make such a dramatic impact to me. It might sound really dumb but it all started with just getting dressed. I never see her wearing normal everday clothes inless her friends are coming over or she is going out. It would just make me feel that much better if she would atleast put effort into me. thats really where it started. It started to drive me nuts. now I can look forward to seeing her in jeans when shes going out with other people. makes me feel like I'm nothing to her.
I know much has changed, and because of that we will never go back to what we had.. Fact is it was two of us, alot less stress, and much more time. But atleast make me feel like im still the most important person in your world. I dont and havent felt that way in about 7 years. I know the kids come first. but besides that I just want to feel important to her, like she lives to be with me. If she can plan things for her and her friends why cant she do the same for me? I hope you understand Im not saying ignore the kids, Im saying give me more attention then you give your friends..
consoling Im sure is a good idea, but I dont know if its a option at this time..

 
Old 10-28-2007, 01:53 PM   #8
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

First, I agree with pendulum in the fact that children really change a relationship. You are both completely different and evolved people and it is impossible to get back what you use to have. You need to accept that for what it is and then work on finding your way back to eachother in the here and now.

Second, I think your wife is (or was) suffering from postpartum depression. Being a stay at home mom of two kids with a husband who works 6/7 days a week I can completely understand and relate to her. I had it really bad with my second and my husband encouraged me to talk to my doctor. I'm very glad he did. Have you thought about discussing this with her.

Third, you should give counselling another try with a different therapist. You need to find one that will help you with your communication issues rather than telling you the same thing over and over again. Sometimes it will take a few tries to find the right therapist. Don't rule out this option because of one bad experience. Communication with your partner is way too important.

Last, plan a romantic weekend for her. Yes, I know you want her to plan it, but I think she wants you to show an interest in her as well. Take the high road and take her somewhere special to the two of you, like where you had your honeymoon or something like that. Do nothing but be with eachother and enjoy eachother for who you are.

 
Old 10-28-2007, 02:19 PM   #9
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom28 View Post
... Last, plan a romantic weekend for her. Yes, I know you want her to plan it, but I think she wants you to show an interest in her as well. Take the high road and take her somewhere special to the two of you, like where you had your honeymoon or something like that. Do nothing but be with eachother and enjoy eachother for who you are.
And I quite agree with Happymom here. J712, you keep asking your wife to plan something for you both, but why don't you take the initiative? Why don't you take her by surprise and plan something yourself for the two of you? Give her a break. Act like a gentleman, will you please? I think she could be waiting for you to go ahead.

If you never had a honeymoon, maybe here's a chance for you now. And don't forget to carry her upstairs or to the room. This may be a lot of fun for you both. I hope you are still strong enough.

 
Old 10-29-2007, 03:26 AM   #10
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

I appreciate all the advise..
I dont nag or always ask her to plan things.. It comes down to the fact I planned everything we have done before. Shes always telling me we do nothing together so I need to go out with my friends... I told her in a very nice way.. I want to do things with you, why dont you plan something that you and I Will both enjoy. I only asked her to do this one time... it was about a month ago. sence she still hasnt but has found the time to plan to go out 2 times, finding a babysitter ect... That hurts me, I constantly hear that we do nothing together, I Dont want to plan anything because I was the one who planned everything already if she can plan activities for herself and friends why cant she just plan something simple for us?
I know its not the right way to look at the situation and my hard head will not make anything better but I just want to see her plan something for us.. even if it was one time.

 
Old 10-29-2007, 04:55 AM   #11
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

I know its not the right way to look at the situation and my hard head will not make anything better but I just want to see her plan something for us.. even if it was one time.[/QUOTE]


Hi J712-
Maybe you should put your hard head on hold for the moment. You say that you want to see her make plans for the both of you for a change, and she does'nt want to because it will lead to intamacy. So, she point blank told you how she feels and that she has lost that lovin feeling. I'm afraid the ball is in your court once again. Change the hard head to a soft heart. If you both wait for the other to make the move, then nothing concrete will happen. Be above it and pull out all the stops. Make some plans ahead of time. Find a sitter on your own and be creative. I know you have it in you.

Do you guys have any couples friends that you hang out with. It seems as though she has her friends and you have yours. Maybe if you guys did couples things together, you could re-kindle from others. You could even plan a get together (a party) at your home, where she could dress up and you both be host and hostess and work together and just enjoy fun and people. Or, how about a family fun day with your kids. Enjoy each other doing something fun that you don't normally do. Make memories that you can look back at that your kids can even charish. They have a big stake in this relationship as well.

Today,(or when you read this) put your mind to these suggestions and make something out of it. If your not sure of your ideas, ask us, thats what were here for . If you do nothing, you get nothing.

My best to you!

Last edited by walkabout; 10-29-2007 at 04:57 AM.

 
Old 10-29-2007, 05:18 AM   #12
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J712 View Post
I dont nag or always ask her to plan things.. It comes down to the fact I planned everything we have done before. Shes always telling me we do nothing together so I need to go out with my friends...
I didn't mean to imply that you were nagging her like this. I'm sorry if I offended you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J712 View Post
I told her in a very nice way.. I want to do things with you, why dont you plan something that you and I Will both enjoy. I only asked her to do this one time... it was about a month ago. sence she still hasnt but has found the time to plan to go out 2 times, finding a babysitter ect... That hurts me, I constantly hear that we do nothing together, I Dont want to plan anything because I was the one who planned everything already if she can plan activities for herself and friends why cant she just plan something simple for us?
No offense again, but this is not the time to be stubborn. I recall in one of your earlier posts that she planned a night to go bowling and you didn't want to go so she went to the movies instead. Well, maybe bowling wasn't what you had in mind but it was something. Could it be that she is making some effort and you are turning her down because it isn't what you want? I'm not blaming you by any means, so please don't think that I am. I want you to see it from her perspective. She is home all day with children. You get to go out and interact with adults and lead an adult life. She is in a rut, and if she is suffering from post partum depression then it is even worse. She may feel like she is nothing more than a mother and maid. I know I've felt that way at times. When she has made suggestions and you didn't want to them that probably hurt her ego. You are both hurt here, it's not the time to draw a line in the sand and firmly plant your feet in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J712 View Post
I know its not the right way to look at the situation and my hard head will not make anything better but I just want to see her plan something for us.. even if it was one time.
You have to stop dwelling on things you can't control. You can not force her into planning something up to your standards even one time. You just have to be the bigger person here. Put your pride aside and sweep her off her feet. I can almost guarentee that your good deed will not go unnoticed and she will return the favor. But it has to start somewhere. You can control what you do, so do something about it!

 
Old 10-29-2007, 06:20 AM   #13
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

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Originally Posted by happymom28 View Post
I didn't mean to imply that you were nagging her like this. I'm sorry if I offended you.



No offense again, but this is not the time to be stubborn. I recall in one of your earlier posts that she planned a night to go bowling and you didn't want to go so she went to the movies instead. Well, maybe bowling wasn't what you had in mind but it was something. Could it be that she is making some effort and you are turning her down because it isn't what you want? I'm not blaming you by any means, so please don't think that I am. I want you to see it from her perspective. She is home all day with children. You get to go out and interact with adults and lead an adult life. She is in a rut, and if she is suffering from post partum depression then it is even worse. She may feel like she is nothing more than a mother and maid. I know I've felt that way at times. When she has made suggestions and you didn't want to them that probably hurt her ego. You are both hurt here, it's not the time to draw a line in the sand and firmly plant your feet in.



You have to stop dwelling on things you can't control. You can not force her into planning something up to your standards even one time. You just have to be the bigger person here. Put your pride aside and sweep her off her feet. I can almost guarentee that your good deed will not go unnoticed and she will return the favor. But it has to start somewhere. You can control what you do, so do something about it!
Great post, Happymom.

Hi Walkbout, I am not sure that the OP has really a hard head. If he had one, he wouldn't have come to this forum for advice in the first place, would he? I suspect it has to do rather with (male) pride, as Happymom put it.

As far as I can see, a man has to please a woman. That's what he was made for. LOL No, I don't mean he must fetch her the moon, but he must act first to reap her reaction(s). I am not saying this is a smooth mechanism, that it works fine all the time, but most of the time it does.

I am digressing...

Please, OP, don't drag your feet, jump to it, instead. You have nothing to lose if you only try.

 
Old 10-29-2007, 06:54 AM   #14
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Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J712 View Post
To answer a couple questions, We reciently went to get consoling it went fairly well, but after 3 visits we just kept hearing the same thing.. We dont communicate. I believe the dr. was right on with that and I know I was a big part of this as when something would bother me I just didnt talk about it. I would just keep it inside, which would cause me to be unhappy for hours, or days intill I could just let it go... The problem is when I do try to communicate it just always turns into a fight. If I say hey listen this is really bothering me. It just starts a fight.. I have sence been comunicating when things bother me but as i said it always turns into a fight.
Perhaps it may be a good idea for you to see a counselor or therapist alone to learn how to communicate your feelings in a healthier way and "not to keep it inside".

Quote:
I reciently wired a friends home for them. it took me a couple days. and so she believes that accounts for me going out so she should be able to. That to me wasnt fun I helped him because I know if I needed help he would help me. now the house is all done, him and his parents wanted to take me out for dinner the one night. I declined thinking about how I would miss that time at home. That was the same night I got home to see my wife dressed only to find out she was going to the movies with her friend.
Hmmm, you were able to take a couple of days to wire a friend's home. In a way, I would also take that as you going out, well, you were out, right? If I were your wife, I would have felt hurt that you took a couple of days to help out a friend instead of spending time with me and the kids.

You declined a dinner invitation because you would miss time at home? What about the 2 days you weren't at home?

I'm not blaming you or judging you, I am hoping that you will take a look at your own actions and see that you have choices here. Instead of wiring a friend's home, you could have made plans for yourself and your wife and went away for those 2 days. Life is all about choices and priorities.

I still don't understand why you need your wife to make plans. Are you afraid if you made plans by yourself that your wife may reject you? You may be in for a big surprise because I think your wife would be sooooo happy if you made this move.

Sunny

 
Old 10-29-2007, 07:02 AM   #15
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 218
walkabout HB User
Re: Not sure what to do.. (very long relationship issues.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendulum View Post
Great post, Happymom.

Hi Walkbout, I am not sure that the OP has really a hard head. If he had one, he wouldn't have come to this forum for advice in the first place, would he? I suspect it has to do rather with (male) pride, as Happymom put it.

As far as I can see, a man has to please a woman. That's what he was made for. LOL No, I don't mean he must fetch her the moon, but he must act first to reap her reaction(s). I am not saying this is a smooth mechanism, that it works fine all the time, but most of the time it does.

I am digressing...

Please, OP, don't drag your feet, jump to it, instead. You have nothing to lose if you only try.
Hi Pedulum

If you look at my post, I was quoting in his words "Hard Headed". I in no means was calling him that, he called it himself and admiited it. I was only referring to his sentance.

 
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