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Old 12-20-2007, 07:12 AM   #1
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Nina000 HB User
forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Just a little follow up to my previous thread: when do you forgive? and how can you do so when you feel that your feelings have been discarded and treated second-class?

Now it is a round of making me feel guilty: He is doing little things to make up, bought a little gift and wrapped it up and wrote affectionate words on it, has done the tidying, cooking, and shopping over the last few days. BUT I am still angry and I want him to understand that he can't get away with disrespect. On the other hand, being angry is so self-consuming. I just came back from work, and I can't tolerate to be with him but it is freezing out and I don't waste 8 hours out with no study done.

What would you do in this case? How should I even respond to him if he talks to me as if he did nothing wrong? How do I respond without widening the argument, since there is nothing to be gained by doing so?

I have started by declining his offer to make me a cup of coffee, and made it myself. I am hardly talking to him. But you know how this feels? very unnatural and uncomfortable. I am happy to do that but till when? How else should I show him that what he did was wrong, except by walking out right now? Should I make the effort and go out to the university and stay there till about 10 pm?

Pendulum, just want to thank you for the recommendation: I love this play. I studied it in my undergraduate degree as a part of a World Literature course. I do hope that one day I can slam the door and never look back.

 
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:29 AM   #2
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Maybe you could start by saying: "I know you are trying to make things right between us and I do appreciate your efforts. But you know as well as I do that things will not ever be right until we deal with the actual issue at hand. Do you think we could try to have a decent and civil conversation about the subject without any yelling or nastiness?". Then the ball is in his court. He has the option to act like an adult and actually talk to you or he can act like a child and throw a fit.

If he chooses to act like a child and get nasty you can walk away and do your studying in the bedroom (locking the door of course so you don't get disturbed) knowing that you tried to do the right thing.

I can understand why you don't want to carry on with the "business as usual" attitude. That is you denying what happened and your feelings and that is wrong. I don't know if my idea helped, but it may be worth a try.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 08:52 AM   #3
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom28 View Post
Maybe you could start by saying: "I know you are trying to make things right between us and I do appreciate your efforts. But you know as well as I do that things will not ever be right until we deal with the actual issue at hand. Do you think we could try to have a decent and civil conversation about the subject without any yelling or nastiness?".
I think this is the way to go Nina, and I think at this time, while he's trying to make things better, he is in the most accommodating mood you're going to get him in so it's most likely to work right now. I think you should take this advice; really, at this point, what have you got to lose? If he refuses to discuss things rationally, right now while he's in this accommodating mood, then you'll know for sure he will never be willing to accommodate you.

Good luck with it hon and keep us posted as to his response.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 09:12 AM   #4
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina000 View Post
Just a little follow up to my previous thread: when do you forgive? and how can you do so when you feel that your feelings have been discarded and treated second-class?


What would you do in this case? How should I even respond to him if he talks to me as if he did nothing wrong? How do I respond without widening the argument, since there is nothing to be gained by doing so?
I'm not terribly familiar with your situation, Nina, so I don't know how much help I can be, but for me, I think there's a huge difference between forgiveness and allowing poor behavior to continue.

Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean they have to stay in your life, or stay in the same way they have been before.

If your guy treats you with a great deal of disrespect to the point where it makes you angry, frustrated and feeling belittled and unvalued, I dont' really see the point in going through life feeling that way. I personaly would not choose to stay in a relationship with someone who continually made me feel that way and who didnt' see anything wrong with it or who wouldn't take responsibility as a first step to making changes.

Regarding how you should talk to him when he acts as if nothing's wrong, Reba McEntire said something interesting about that once, after a fight with her first husband. He bought her flowers and expected that to gloss everything over like nothing happened, and she said that's when she knew it was really over, because their problems were much bigger than that and he refused to deal with them and make changes and fix them, he just bought some flowers and then back to business as usual.

Finding a way to forgive just so you wont' have to carry around all that anger is a good thing, but forgiveness doesn't always mean going back to business as usual. sometimes forgiveness means saying "this is just who he is, he will never change, doesn't want to change, and he's free to make that choice if he wants, it's not a reflection in me and there's no need for me to hate him for it if that's just who he is, I don't have to internalize it, but I simply can't live with it anymore, and I'm free to choose not to." I'm not saying that's where you are, I don't know, but something to think about.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 09:37 AM   #5
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

HappyMum, Laylah, and Larrylou'smom, Thank you very much for being there to listen. I know that what you suggested Happymum and Laylah is the most immediately achievable kind of response. Larrylou'smom, your advice is what I consider a longer-term aim. You are so right in pointing out that this is just the way he is, and that my relationship is like happymum said a losing battle...a waste of energy and youth. I have just to accept that this is a chapter of my life that needs closing, if he is unwilling to sort this out. I dread tomorrow, the break-up is going to be very hurtful: A totally new situation, enormous change in my life!
At the moment, things are just very confusing...Believe it or not, I don't even have the emotional energy to go out there and buy him his gift! I know it sounds awful but I feel like it is an obligation, no joy, and I am not stressing over what he likes/what he dislikes like I used to do, always. I just feel that he has spoilt the occasion for me and it is all false show of happiness and care on my and his part.

Ok here is what I did, I told him that I am sorry I had to spend a couple of hundreds to pay off one of my exs, who he does not like at all, money that he did pay years ago for me to take a certain course. I didn't since this was a present from my ex before I got together with him. I just wanted him to taste how it feels. I have paid my share of the rent and so did he. I explained that since what is left not enough for partying/fun whatever; he can spend Christmas at his mum's and I am so happy to stay here and work in peace and quiet. I will still invest in buying him a nice gift since this might be our last Christmas together.

In the meanwhile I will just try to distance myself from him and treat him like a flatmate. I now understand that this behaviour pattern will keep on recurring as long as we are together. Just got to set my priorities right and focus on things that pay me off. Thank you again for all your support. X

Last edited by Nina000; 12-20-2007 at 09:41 AM.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 09:58 AM   #6
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Trust me... I have a strong feeling that this move is going to be the best one of your life (going abroad and having a 'new' start so to speak, regardless of the circumstances when it begins). Seriously. You're going to find some happiness, much more consistant happiness than what you've had over the last 4 years from what I can tell. A breath of fresh air, no emotional baggage or weight on your shoulders every time the phone rings and it's his ex ...

It's not going to be easy Nina, but for myself... when I've been ready to end things with someone, the first thing I notice is that I just... have a hard time caring. I feel sad about the idea of the relationship and the comfort zone going away - but then, when I think about the person and how frustrating certain things are, I realize I'm not sad about specifically losing the 'relationship'. By your last post, it almost sounds like you're there. I think for most women, we fall out way out of love before we can take the step to walk away. Which is probably why most men feel blindsided when they get dumped and we seem so... detached. By the time we finally feel ready to do it - we are!

 
Old 12-20-2007, 01:26 PM   #7
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bulletproof HB User
Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina000 View Post
How else should I show him that what he did was wrong, except by walking out right now?
Have a conversation. Passive-aggressive behavior like making your own coffee is not going to address this problem. You have more choices than walking out or putting up with something. You can discuss it. You can suggest that you both get some kind of marriage counseling before it's too late. Or, you can end the relationship as amicably as possible.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 02:02 PM   #8
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
Have a conversation. Passive-aggressive behavior like making your own coffee is not going to address this problem. You have more choices than walking out or putting up with something. You can discuss it.
I would generally agree with the above advice Bulletproof, wholeheartedly actually, but Nina has stated several times in recent posts that her husband reacts negatively towards any attempt on her part to even bring up the subject, so where does that leave her?

I would find her situation intensely frustrating, as she's dealing with a man here who clearly is not willing to go down the mature and adult route of discussing the issue. As his wife, it's the least she should be able to expect, but it's also the least likely scenario he is willing to present her with. Talk about a counter-mining conundrum! Never mind passive aggressive; if I were in her shoes I reckon I'd probably be driven to drop the passive element in that equation!

Last edited by Laylah; 12-20-2007 at 02:12 PM. Reason: misspelling

 
Old 12-20-2007, 02:07 PM   #9
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Laylah HB User
Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destea View Post
It's not going to be easy Nina, but for myself... when I've been ready to end things with someone, the first thing I notice is that I just... have a hard time caring. I feel sad about the idea of the relationship and the comfort zone going away - but then, when I think about the person and how frustrating certain things are, I realize I'm not sad about specifically losing the 'relationship'. By your last post, it almost sounds like you're there. I think for most women, we fall out way out of love before we can take the step to walk away. Which is probably why most men feel blindsided when they get dumped and we seem so... detached. By the time we finally feel ready to do it - we are!
Good Lord those words are so true Destea; I've lived that a time or two!

 
Old 12-20-2007, 02:11 PM   #10
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laylah View Post
I would generally agree with the above advice Bulletproof, but Nina has stated several times in recent posts that her husband reacts negatively towards any attempt on her part to even bring up the subject, so where does that leave her?
That leaves her with the last option- ending the relationship.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 02:17 PM   #11
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happymom28 HB User
Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
That leaves her with the last option- ending the relationship.
I'm getting the impression that Nina is finally at this point. As Destea put it, you get to the point where you just stop caring. I think Nina is finally exhausted and coming to the realization that this is a man who will NEVER put her first. Sometimes it takes some people longer than others to get to this point.

Did you try to have any sort of conversation with him Nina? I think Laylah was right in that if there was EVER going to be the "right time" to have this conversation it would be when he was in the mood of trying to make things right. Anyway, I hope you are doing okay.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 02:32 PM   #12
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
That leaves her with the last option- ending the relationship.
I'd certainly agree that if any man point-blank refuses to talk to his wife about an issue that is clearly making her miserable she has no option but to leave, but I don't know that Nina's husband is willing to carry that through in the longer term. I think he's just pushing her as far as she'll let him, which is why I advised her to give him the shock of his life by packing her bags some time ago.

It sounds to me like this man needs a good shake-up. I think he's so used to her putting up with this crap he thinks she'll never leave, and I think if she even temporarily vacated the premises he'd receive it as such an almighty surprise we'd soon be reading a very different style of posts regarding this relationship.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 02:34 PM   #13
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom28 View Post
Anyway, I hope you are doing okay.
So do I Nina, and happy Christmas honey, despite all this bull! It's an awful time of the year to be going through personal BS. I had my turn this time last year and I wont forget it in a hurry.

{{hugs to you}}

 
Old 12-20-2007, 03:22 PM   #14
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Guys can't thank you enough for all your wonderful support during all the bad times. Hugs back Laylah and I wish you and HappyMum and everyone a wonderful Christmas that you all deserve.

Yes, I take your advice on board and will have to talk to him at some point soon, maybe tomorrow after work, since I am not ready for another mental drain tonight. He stressed that the money is meant to be his son's gift so I will have to accept that this is true. The card issue remains unaccountable for!

Destea, I am very grateful for your really insightful posts, and I know what you mean exactly...I have thought about your words many times, and felt sad I have changed so much towards him. It is not all that romantic after all. You know all the excitement about living with a man from a different culture in such a vibrant city....it all lost its spark so long ago...

I have had another day out, basically doing nothing. I told him that I was going out to get milk and turned up just few hours later. I enjoyed seeing his face ridden with anxiety when I got back but this can't carry on I suppose. I suffered severe migraine last night and woke up late for work (had to get ready in 10 minuts) I am relieved tomorrow is Friday. I need to unload this pressure off my body.

My cousin invited me to London and he was adamant that I spend the weekend there. He said that he has booked a hotel room for me, so at least I am pleased that tomorrow, I can at least escape for a couple of days if the pressure mounts. My only concern is what next? Anyway, I will just think on a day-to-day basis.

Many thanks to all of you who took the time to respond. I truly appreciate that.

Last edited by Nina000; 12-20-2007 at 03:25 PM.

 
Old 12-20-2007, 03:32 PM   #15
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Re: forgiving and taking in what is unacceptable?

Hugs Nina. Just take it one step at a time, that's really all we can account for individually any way. Right?

I just know that it's true for me... when I've hit my limit so to speak, just happens and one day I wake up and go, wow - I'm there. That's that, time to move along even though I'll miss the normalcy/comfort.. this dude just ain't cuttin' it. My therapist told me that's pretty common with women, but who knows. We go through so much agony trying to make things work, figure out every way imaginable to fix it - hope it'll get better - until finally we're tapped out and over it. Especially when there's no reward for our efforts!

Hang in there, girl. Talk to him tomorrow after work - then leave for your weekend. It will be good for you! You can take your studies, have a room to yourself and just spend some time with loved ones. Take this opportunity to wrap your brain around what you feel is the next best step... you know you're leaving the country soon - if you feel it's right, maybe fixing/ending this when you go will go far in your new life since you still have a chance at some closure. Who knows...

Normally you know I don't really like to jump in there and say 'leave him!', but... well, 4 years of this Nina, you and I both know he hasn't changed a bit even if he does have some good qualities. How about a man with some good qualities who actually respects and honors you as a partner? :\ I can sadly say he doesnt, he may care for you, probably loves you, but not in a way that love should be, and that's his own deal. You're perfectly lovable if you ask me!

 
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