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Old 01-16-2009, 08:48 PM   #1
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When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Some time ago, I told my BF I wanted to get sterilized one day (I'm childfree), and he expressed great disagreement for some reason. He happens to want kids, but he also knows about my choice and we are still together. Our being together after me telling him that I will never have kids leads me to believe he accepts my choice and will also give up having kids in order to be with me. However, his being against me being sterilized leads me to believe he thinks I will eventually jump the fence and suddenly want kids and all he has to do is wait for me to change my mind. Or this might tie into his anti-body modification feelings (which is why I don't have the eyebrow ring I've always wanted).

Only thing is I will not be changing my mind. I might one day just tell him I'm getting the procedure done whether or not he likes it in order to drive my point home. I could get it done on the sly, but this is really something I'd like to do with his blessing. Obviously this will come up again in the future when he proposes and we have our dreaded talk about the things we disagree about, but I'm not sure what to think until then. I fear broaching the issue because I know it will lead to a painful, tearful argument like the last time we talked about kids.

What would you do in this situation?

 
Old 01-16-2009, 09:10 PM   #2
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Being the female, the one who would carry the child, and bottom line do everyting else needed to provide for the child, physically, emotionally, financially, and with a lifelong commitment of putting the child first-

versus:

The man, who can change his mind along the way at any time..

Gee, I would have to give the woman the option. If the man needs fatherhood to feel complete, there are women out there that do too. It's the womans choice about the children, the mans choice about the woman.

 
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Old 01-17-2009, 12:26 PM   #3
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Don't get me wrong, I know it's my decision in the end. And since I'm the one who does not want children, I figure it would only be fair for me to be the one to get sterilized. I just don't see BF's logic in disagreeing with the procedure when he knows I won't give him kids anyway regardless of the condition of my reproductive organs.

Perhaps I should remind him that be being sterile would mean we wouldn't need to ever use condoms again. That might put my desires in a positive light.

Hmm, maybe I could just tell a little white lie. Like get Essure done and, if asked, tell DBF that I got a small device put into my body that will prevent pregnancy. Conveniently leaving out that it's permanent and irreversible (much unlike an IUD). No, I kid. I wouldn't want to lie to him, even if it is by omission. Besides, he's internet-savvy and could easily research the procedure and find out I left crucial details out.

 
Old 01-17-2009, 01:37 PM   #4
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

So, it's the actual procedure itself that he cannot tolerate? He wants you intact, without surgical alteration?

 
Old 01-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #5
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

I don't know if this has something to do with him being not a big fan of body modification or if he hangs on to some little false hope that I will change my mind about children if he just waits long enough...me getting sterilized would destroy that hope.

I think it's more the latter. I don't know why he is so worried because if I ever did get pregnant, I would seek a termination with or without his blessing. So even if I remained fertile, he'd never get kids out of me anyway.

 
Old 01-17-2009, 05:30 PM   #6
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

"I fear broaching the issue because I know it will lead to a painful, tearful argument like the last time we talked about kids." - so he's not OK with not having kids.

"Our being together after me telling him that I will never have kids leads me to believe he accepts my choice and will also give up having kids in order to be with me." - No. Believe to what he is saying rather to how he is behaving. He's not comfortable with closing the door forever and permanently.

 
Old 01-17-2009, 05:36 PM   #7
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Just as you are assuming that since you expressed your views ("I don't want to have kids") and he has stayed in a relationship with you because he accepts your view and is willing to change, he could very easily be doing the same thing.

He could be assuming that since he expressed his opinion ("I want to have children") and you have not broken it off with him, that you have accepted his view and are willing to change.

 
Old 01-17-2009, 05:36 PM   #8
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Wow...this sounds like a bit of a red flag, in terms of a long term, enriching relationship for the both of you.

With long term plans of being childless for you, certain big decisions will be very unique for you. If at this point, he is directing his future towards fatherhood, you two will likely face some very trying times along the way.

 
Old 01-17-2009, 06:42 PM   #9
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

If you had said he wantED children, then I wouldn't think you had so much of a problem. But he wantS children, present tense and you DON'T want children, present tense. You are both hoping the other will become someone they are not. Not good for a healthy, mutually respectful long term relationship.

This issue with kids is not as settled as you'd like to think it is. Obviously he's still holding out hope that you will change your mind and want children someday. The only reason I can see why he wouldn't want you to get your tubes tied is because he wants the option of having kids with you to still be open. If it's not open, you need to tell him clearly, decisively and in no uncertain terms, and make sure he understands. You say you "assume" that he's ok with it because you've made your position clear and he hasn't left you. But you know what they say about assuming. It makes an A$$ out of U and ME. Do NOT assume anything. You need to sit down with him and say all the stuff you're scared to say for fear of what he'll say. You need to sit him down, look him in the eye and ask him point blank "honey, you know I don't want children. I will never want children, and since you are still with me, I assume you are ok with never having children either. So if we have agreed to never have any children, then what exactly is your problem with my getting my tubes tied?" I mean, who knows? The two of you have not talked this out this clearly and directly it seems. For all you know, when the time is right, he could be planning to poke a hole in the condom and just assume that once you're pregnant, you will fall in love with the little life inside you and your natural, innate maternal instict will kick in and you'll love being a mother. How do you know for sure that's not what he's thinking. Never mind the fact that he's still with you. Forget that. What has he TOLD you to make you believe he's totally on board with the never having kids thing? Has he said anything like "I love you no matter what and if you don't want kids, then that means I can't have kids and I'm alright with that." ?? If not, then you have some serioius clarifying to do.

It's not fair of him to marry you or commit to you when he's loving you for someone he hopes you'll be someday rather than someone you really are, and it's not fair for you to marry him for the same reasons. If he really wants to be a father, he should get the chance to be. And if you really don't want to be a mother, you shouldn't be, and shouldn't be forced or pressured to be. As painful as it is, this is NOT a conversation you can avoid for fear it will break you up. If you will never want children and he always will, you will either break up down the road anyway, or one or both of you will end up miserable and stuck in an unhappy marriage that you really don't want to be in and a life much much less than what you wanted. You need to get this issue settled once and for all right now. Time for a point blank, everything out on the table talk, assuming NOTHING. Even if it means dealing head on with the very real possibility that the two of you don't belong together, it's much better to find out now rather than later.

Last edited by Larrylou'smom; 01-17-2009 at 06:52 PM.

 
Old 01-18-2009, 12:49 AM   #10
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

I know I will need to have the talk with DBF eventually...I know I've posted about it on here a couple times. Come to think of it, I think you replied then too, Larrylou'smom.

And yes, I didn't think about the possibility that DBF might be thinking I will change my mind because we remained together. I know when we had our last big argument about this, I asked him if he still wanted to be with me...his response was "Don't ask me that right now" - I think because he was distraught and he didn't want to think about losing me; obviously he didn't leave, or else I wouldn't be here asking this stuff. He did listen to my reasons for not wanting children, and he'd already told me his reasons for wanting them. He heard me out and said he thought my reasoning was understandable. The thing that got me was he told me I might "change my mind", which is something no childfree person likes hearing. But then I threw it back in his face and told him he might change HIS mind, and he said that he might. That gave me a little hope.

I don't know if he said that because he feels humans in general are prone to mind changing or because he really might change his mind and feel that he'd be happy with only me in life.

I'm thinking of possibly recruiting a friend of mine and his to strike up a conversation that deals with kids. Probably my ex since his fiance is pregnant and he's just thrilled about it. I might ask him to gush to my BF about it and have him say something like, "So, does Dark Stranger still not want kids? Or did she change her mind yet?" to see if BF will talk about it with Ex.

Trust me, I know it's going to be rough seas ahead if DBF and I are still on totally different pages about the kids thing. Personally, I'd like to think I mean more to him than potential babies and while this may sound irrational, his desire to have kids almost makes me feel like I don't make him happy enough, and he has to fill in the voids of unhappiness with babies. He's already said one of the reasons he wants to have kids is "so he won't be bored with his life". Maybe I was having a bad day that day, but it sounded like he was implying he'd get bored with me as time went on. And let's face it...even parents who adore their kids will tell you that babies aren't exactly a cure for boredom. Plus I don't think it's a very good idea to give a baby a job like official curer of boredom because what happens when the baby gets boring? I suggested if we get bored, we could do things like travel, pursue hobbies together, take classes (like tae bo or cooking), exercise together, and so on. Kids do drain money out of a person, so when there aren't any, one can use their extra income to pursue things they may otherwise not have been able to if they had kids.

I'd consider getting an IUD put in since I hear they are very effective as well as temporary, which would put DBF at ease. I could just keep getting them replaced once they...expired, I guess. Maybe the security of knowing the method I chose is temporary but very effective would make him relax a bit more. I'd much rather get Essure, especially since IUDs have a heightened expulsion rate in nulliparous women.

Well then I guess DBF best get used to using condoms for the rest of his life. It's too bad since I would definitely like to not bother with them and rely on Essure, but since he can't deal with me being sterile, he'll have to deal with those lovely latex sheaths forever.

Part of me wonders something...what if I had some kind of issue with my body that either made me infertile or would make pregnancy dangerous for me? I wonder if DBF would accept being without children under those circumstances. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with me...I have no clue since I have never been to a gyno. But I wonder if he'd resent me if I just naturally was unable to have kids. I never asked him that.

 
Old 01-18-2009, 07:29 AM   #11
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Stranger View Post
Part of me wonders something...what if I had some kind of issue with my body that either made me infertile or would make pregnancy dangerous for me? I wonder if DBF would accept being without children under those circumstances. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with me...I have no clue since I have never been to a gyno. But I wonder if he'd resent me if I just naturally was unable to have kids. I never asked him that.
A very interesting thought. Hearing that, he may lean on the current technology that helps seemingly hopeless infertile couples.

For people who are truly infertile but still want to have children, there is an array of options available, from IUI to IVF to egg donors to surrogates to adoption. It still wouldn't be a deterrent for him.

 
Old 01-18-2009, 07:50 AM   #12
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Stranger View Post
And yes, I didn't think about the possibility that DBF might be thinking I will change my mind because we remained together. I know when we had our last big argument about this, I asked him if he still wanted to be with me...his response was "Don't ask me that right now" - I think because he was distraught and he didn't want to think about losing me; obviously he didn't leave, or else I wouldn't be here asking this stuff. He did listen to my reasons for not wanting children, and he'd already told me his reasons for wanting them. He heard me out and said he thought my reasoning was understandable. The thing that got me was he told me I might "change my mind", which is something no childfree person likes hearing. But then I threw it back in his face and told him he might change HIS mind, and he said that he might. That gave me a little hope..
And I'm sure the fact that he laid out all HIS reasons for wanting children and that you stayed and didn't deny it when he said you might change your mind gave HIM a little hope. too. Again, you're both hoping the other will change.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Stranger View Post
I'm thinking of possibly recruiting a friend of mine and his to strike up a conversation that deals with kids. Probably my ex since his fiance is pregnant and he's just thrilled about it. I might ask him to gush to my BF about it and have him say something like, "So, does Dark Stranger still not want kids? Or did she change her mind yet?" to see if BF will talk about it with Ex.
I still say the direct approach would be better. I mean, you're considering marrying this guy for Pete's sake. You should be able to have an open, honest, direct conversation with him about what you want and don't want out of life wihtout game playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Stranger View Post
Trust me, I know it's going to be rough seas ahead if DBF and I are still on totally different pages about the kids thing. Personally, I'd like to think I mean more to him than potential babies and while this may sound irrational, his desire to have kids almost makes me feel like I don't make him happy enough, and he has to fill in the voids of unhappiness with babies. .
You musn't look at it that way. When I was still in my child bearing years, it wouldn't have mattered how much I loved someone, if they didn't want children, I would not have bothered with them because I desperately wanted them. If most people didn't have a deeply ingrained, innate need to procreate, most of us wouldn't be here. It has nothing to do with how much he loves you. Being a parent is an awesome, huge huge part of the human experience. Most people consider having a child a huge gift, a blessing, and the most amazing, wonderful thing they've ever done in their life. A lot of people would feel empty and incomplete without it, like they didn't fulfill their purpose for being here. The love of a trustworthy significant other is nice, but it can't replace having children of your own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Stranger View Post
Part of me wonders something...what if I had some kind of issue with my body that either made me infertile or would make pregnancy dangerous for me? I wonder if DBF would accept being without children under those circumstances. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with me...I have no clue since I have never been to a gyno. But I wonder if he'd resent me if I just naturally was unable to have kids. I never asked him that.
He would probably want to adopt or opt for surrogacy or something like that. But with all due respect, I can't believe you are considering marrying this guy and you haven't asked him that flat out yourself yet. My ex boyfriend and I never got to the stage you're in, almost engaged, or actually engaged, and we still talked about this stuff. I knew exactly where he stood on adoption, on kids, on how he wanted them raised, on what he would do if it turned out I was infertile, all that stuff. It's important to know this stuff before entering into any really serious long term commitment. Again, another reason to have a direct, open, honest conversation with him rather than going through friends of friends or whatever. You need to ask these questions and hear his answers and he needs to know where you stand as well.

Last edited by Larrylou'smom; 01-18-2009 at 07:53 AM.

 
Old 01-18-2009, 10:14 AM   #13
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

You could always tell him that you don't want kids with him because he's a no-job-having-living-in-his-parents-basement kind of guy who doesn't have the means to support a family?

 
Old 01-18-2009, 10:57 AM   #14
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

I did at one point ask DBF about adoption since that's what I would want to do if I *did* change my mind, as opposed to having biological kids. DBF said that he would not adopt because he "doesn't want to raise someone else's mistake". He also will not become a Big Brother or date someone with kids for the same reason - they have to be bio kids or it's a no-go.

Odd...I thought potential parents should love a child no matter what. Sounds like DBF is one of those people who thinks anyone else's kids are subhuman and only his would matter. And the kicker is DBF doesn't even particularly like kids, so why the heck would he want them? There's a lot of people who will say 'it's different when it's your own' and a lot of the time they still can't stand their kids. If he suggested IVF (which I think is $10K per round and has an 80 percent failure rate), I'd probably tell him to take his IVF and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

And trust me Kszan, even if we both did agree on kids, we would not be having them now. I'm soon to graduate and then leave for another three years of schooling and DBF is still unemployed and living with his parents...it would be a bad time to procreate.

I intend to bring all this mess up to DBF if he starts talking more seriously about marriage. None of this stuff is a problem right now, but I refuse to marry a guy with whom I cannot agree on fundamental relationship issues. I'd rather enjoy a fairly carefree life with him now in the event we cannot agree and do split up. We didn't talk about any of this until we'd been dating for about two years because I guess both of were concerned any time before then was 'too soon' to talk about such big issues.

Eventually I'll have the talk with BF about all this. He said he wanted to propose to me after graduation, but due to my recent desire to pursue more schooling, I don't know if he means after my near-future graduation or my hopefully graduation in three years. I will likely try and broach the issue before then so he doesn't go and waste money on a ring, but it definitely will not be pretty.

Aside from the kids thing, he and I disagree on other big issues too, like what kind of wedding ceremony we'd each want, and he has a problem with me wanting to keep my maiden name for professional reasons. Don't ask me how we got three and a half years into our relationship with disagreements like these

 
Old 01-18-2009, 03:01 PM   #15
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Re: When SO disagrees with you on birth control

My boss divorced his first wife for the sole reason that he wanted more kids (they have one daughter together) and she didn't. She is a fast-paced career woman who didn't want nannies to raise her kids, so she elected to not have any more. Bingo, he asked for a divorce. So for that man, it was a complete deal breaker.

If you've gotten this far in the relationship, I too wonder why you seem to be fearful to have this conversation with him. You HAVE to know his answer.

 
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