I am writting this question because I am sooooooo frustrated with some of the advice that comes to people looking for it. Why is it that when somebody is looking for relationship advice, most people say it's fine to just walk out and leave? I think this is so wrong. Now if we are talking blatent abuse, yes, this is a different scenario. However, when we are talking about a trust issue, or a general feeling of unsatisfaction, why do we allways jump to the conclusion that the person is 100% right in the assertations they have given us and that it is not just ok, but a DUTY, that they leave their spouse. Does anyone ever consider that these complaints, first of all, may be very one sided? Not just that, but who ever said marriage would be happily ever after? And for the person looking for advice on how to improve their relationship, how does telling them to end it do anything more then waste time. What about the person who is terrified to just walk away, and want's to exhaust every other option first, to make absolute certain that if they were to walk away, it would be the right thing? And for most of us, Leaving our spouse is NOT that easy. There are children, mortgages, assets, investments, and many other things at stake. And just because somebody may not be "cutting it" as far as being the perfect spouse goes, that doesnt mean that they are not a good father, provider, or support system in other matters. So why is it ok to just leave? Like all the prblems in the world are solved as long as YOU are happy. What about the feelings of others, your children, family, and even your spouse...etc.. Why is the advice never to get help, seek counsel, try a church, etc.? Why is it allways to just leave, and too often an emphatic, leave him, or else your stupid? And again, I'm not talking about abusive controlling relationships where somebody gets a charge out of physically or mentally hurting, neglecting, or controlling another person.
I agree with most of what you say. I also think that, if you look at the advice to leave, given on most of the threads here, are dealing with people who are putting up with severe disrespect, inconsideration and other issues that have worn them down to the point of being no longer able to cope. My own view is that there are always the three alternative options - first, stay and cope by more or less putting up with it for the other reasons that you mention; second; work actively to change the situation, eg with therapy, marriage counselling, etc, or, three, leave if the others become too impossible to continue with. Also, a lot of the reasons that people stay in an unhappy relationship are not the noble ones of consideration of others. The overwhelming top reason for staying is the fear of being alone. This seems to hold more people in bad situations than any other reason.
Most partnerships or marriages hit blah patches now and then over time; it is then that your arguments are most valid..boredom is not really a reason to ditch an otherwise good spouse, at least not without a good effort to stimulate them into having a more positive outlook on life. Every case is different, and often people are already at the point of bailing when they ask for advice. Usually this is fairly obvious. Cheers, Sera.
maybe you're referring to me.....maybe not
but I get tired of seeing women put up with disrespect, cheating, lying, and other nonsense in the name of "working it out". I used to be one of those women who would tolerate just about anything, just so I could "work things out". I have learned that I'm co-dependent and the definition of co-dependency is when you meet everyone elses needs to the exclusion of your own. I was raised by a co-dependent mother who taught me that you put everyone elses needs above your own.......that's bad advice.......
I have learned that it's ok to say NO! I have learned that it's ok to not tolerate bad behavior and disrespect. I have learned that every relationship doesn't need to be "worked out". Some need to be ended. I wish so many other women and young girls would learn that also.
It is not easy to just leave... but in certain situations IT IS the best thing to do in the long run. My parents stayed together for "us" and (most likely) for all the other aforementioned reasons you named above mortgage, assets, and a lot of other stuff at stake. My mother was abusive, both physically and mentally. She would say the most hurtful things. Growing up, if I wanted to go out with my friends, she would always accuse me of horrible things. My dad tried NUMEROUS times to make it work. My mom (being half japanese) told my dad she needed to fly to japan and sort out citizenship since she was a dual citizen. She never bothered to come back to us. Despite that, my dad moved us to Japan so that we could give it one more try
My mom, a stay at home mom, never spent time with us. She was always out at night. She would sleep all day. She would curse at me and tell me how she regretted having me. My brother was only 4 at the time and my dad really did not want my brother to grow up without a mom. Despite all his efforts... it did not work. he suggested counseling, she cussed him out. he followed her and moved us to a DIFFERENT CONTINENT, it still was not good enough... My dad completely lost it when he found out my mom was snorting drugs. Despite that, she did not care. She had the nerve to LEAVE US, tell my little brother she will never see him again no thanks to my dad, etc.
It was a horrible experience. Our lives were so much better without her in the picture. The truth is one person CANNOT save marriage on their own. Why continue to try and pursue it when the other person does not care and does not want to? My dad was so unhappy. He tried to pretend but we could sense his misery.
I do not believe in simply walking out if my marriage going thru a bump... no, i want my kids to have their father and I will do whatever it takes.... but if I am doing all that I can and I am only putting the work... I refuse to live a life of misery. ITS MY LIFE TOO. This is precisely why its important to not be completely dependent (financially, emotionally etc) on your spouse and to also be very selective with your partner.
Marriage is not always going to be happily ever after but you should STILL EXPERIENCE HAPPINESS. YOU WILL HAVE fights and fall outs but you should still be HAPPY OVERALL with you marriage and your partner. you should definitely be able to COMMUNICATE with your partner! Also, you mentioned improving on a relationship... well if your spouse chooses to cheat on you (for example) and continue to disrespect you despite talks/attempts/counselling... how are you supposed to improve on a relationship when there is ONLY ONE PERSON that wants to fix it and make it work??? a relationship requires TWO individuals. If there is only one that is trying to fix it, and the other is selfish, refusing to budge - how exactly are you supposed to? you cannot.
Also, a partner that cheats on you whether is emotional or physical with another woman/numerous women is an abusive relationship. If my husband chose to cheat on me or have an emotional/phone affairs with other women for instance, that would devastate me mentally and emotionally. That will affect my self esteem. And if I ask him to stop and he still chooses to disregard my request anyways, Yes that is abusive. Why should I subject myself to that? Why? Because I have kids? If I have tried it all and given it my best, why should I keep trying and its a losing game? Each person is different but I refuse to be in a relationship/marriage that is not fulfilling. My husband consciously and purposely choosing to disrespect me is something I would not be able to tolerate but there are women who do no find "cheating" a big deal. My grandma certainly did not make a big deal about my grandfather cheating on her, so it also depends on your values. I mean it depends on the individual and the situation. I honestly cannot say I would jsut walk out and leave my husband if I found out he cheated on me... I dont know. having said that if I was in a situation where he had no remorse and he continuously kept doing it disrespecting me... yes I will leave. Why should I stay when its so easy for him to not care about me? Not value my feelings? Value my trust? value my role in this partnership?
a good friend of mine married her highschool sweetheart. they got married... and less than a year, she caught him cheating on her. I did not encourage her to leave. I did encourage her to take some time and evaluate herself, the situation etc. He wanted to make it work... he said he was sorry, he was drunk, an accident blah blah blah. They worked it out and they now have two kids... this is her problem NOW. Her husband works out of town. He works for the railway so she never sees him except when he comes home which is WEEKENDS. Instead of spending time with his wife and kids, HE ALWAYS LEAVES AND GOES TO THE BAR. HE GETS DRUNK AND HE HABITUALLY LIES TO HER ABOUT HIS WHEREABOUTS. What can she do about that? She has talked to him, she has cussed him out, she has cried, she has begged, she has threatened to leave... and he still does it. With two kids, my friend stays at home with them and is dependent on her husband. He knows this and takes advantage of it. He even told her that "she was never going to go anywhere" -- now what? should she just stay to raise the kids on her own while her husband lives a single life? yes he provides but she raises their children by her self. yes he is a good father, when he chooses to spend time with them. He will lie to her in a heartbeat if it means it will give him a better chance to sneak out with his brothers/friends. He even lied to her about not being able to make it back in town until Saturday night that way when he got back FRIDAY NIGHT... he could just go out and not have to deal with her. That is not okay and you cannot fix a marriage or a situation like that. I dont think my friend should run and get a divorce, but it would do her some good to move in with her mom at least temporarily... just get away from her husband. A hiatus, if you prefer and see what happens then
Now it is A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY IF YOU DATE AND MARRY A MAN WHO IS ALREADY LIKE THAT... THINKING THAT YOU CAN CHANGE HIM since yall are married
Ok, I hear what everybody is saying. I was married, and we later developed problems, but he was a good father, provider, and inspite of his mistakes, he was my best friend. We started to work on things, but slowly, his old patterns returned. I was tired of working on it, I loved him, but I do believe you have to draw a line somewhere. So I told him he was going to support us while I got my education, if at the end of that, nothing had changed, I was leaving. Oh he turned right around quick enough. Then he died. I dont know if I ever would have left him, or if he would have remained changed.....I didnt get to see the whole scenario out. However, I have had only one boyfriend in the almost 3 years since he passed. And this person was terrible. Oh he came off as mr. wonderful. He was kind, funny, polite, and in general, just seemed to be a good soul. But I allowed things to move to quickly, and once he moved in, I soon realized he was after my money, that non of it had anything to do with me. He stopped working, he would tell me I was clingy and needy and he needed space......in my house that I pay for while he is unemployed and living off of me. Then he would tell me good luck in finding anyone else who would ever put up with me. That I was damaged and nobody would want anything to do with a widow with 3 kids. So he really enjoyed making me feel helpless. Then I got pregnant. I sent him away for a weekend to think things through. He wanted me to "get rid of it" and this is something I just couldnt do. So I put everything into perspection and never went back to pick him up. Got rid of his stuff and him. So yes, i understand that there are times when it's better off to cut your losses and move on. However, I don't necessarily feel like all, or even most of the women who come here are to that point where nothing could possibly work. Let's face it, even our children show us disrespect, and even I could be called guilty of being disrespectful. This is human nature. People make mistakes, sometimes repeatedly. Again, I am not talking about abuse. But I guess I dont allways agree with what some people on here call abuse. I see mistakes, and human behavior, followed by overreactions and judgements. I just feel like sometimes it would be better to encourage counseling, or professional help of some sort, rather then the big breakup.
The truth is one person CANNOT save marriage on their own. Why continue to try and pursue it when the other person does not care and does not want to?
That's the bottom line, Mel. That's the case in 99% of the situations where women post here about their problems. THEY are the ones committed to trying to work it out, come hell or high water. But their spouse, on the other hand, doesn't care, doesn't admit there's a problem, doesn't want to change, doesn't want to take responsibility for his shortcomings, etc. Why should a woman keep fighting it and stay with him if he isn't going to make ANY effort toward fixing the problem? Why should she continue in that situation??
I agree it's really easy to say just leave. And just leaving a marriage is probably one of the hardest things that a woman would ever have to do. But majority of the time here on this board, the women are already at the point where they have tried the counseling, they have tried their priests and rabbis and ministers, they have tried a trial separation, they have tried everything and nothing has made any difference. So what then would you suggest that she does? Stays in that miserable situation? I don't care if her husband is a "good provider", just bringing money into the equation isn't going to make him a better person. If he is a neglectful cheating liar, then there's no reason at all for a woman to stay with him. I don't care if they have fifty kids and 4 mortgages!! There is no reason on this earth why a woman should stay in a situation where her husband refuses to make any changes to fix the problems that ongoing and neverending and soul-crushing like they are for majority of these women.
And for me personally, I used to be the type who put up with a lot of bs, including repeatedly being cheated on by the same guy. I stayed in relationships that were long past their expiration date, and it was because I didn't know any better. But I have learned since then that it's ok to stand firm on the issues I feel strongly about and it's not ok for me to put up with being treated with constant disrespect by any guy ever again.
I have also stayed in relationships, and a marriage for much longer than I should have and been treated badly and with disrespect and abuse. I want to save someone else the trouble.....although people rarely learn from others mistakes, they have to jump in with both feet and make their own. Mel I think maybe your situation is a little different since your husband has died, and I am sorry for your loss, but it seems that a lot of people glorify people after their death.....all of a sudden they become saints and their past mistakes, and abuses are all forgotten. Could that be maybe why you're feeling the way you are? I'm glad you were smart enough and strong enough to stand up for yourself and get rid of that loser/leech that had attached himself to you. Would you also encourage someone in that same situation to "work it out"? I doubt it.....see there are plenty of situations/relationships that should just be walked away from. I'm glad you realize that also.
I see your point rosequartz, and no, i would not recommend that somebody in that particular situation try to work it out. However, as far as my husband goes, I DO feel differently about it then others because he died. But not in a way that suggests that what he did wasnt wrong. I still remember how much it hurt, and how very difficult his indescressions were for me to get through. Having said that, I also know that once it's over, that's it. It is this huge thing that I have no word for, way to describe it, and I cant wrap my arms around it to save my soul. It's just gone, done, finished. And it gives you a different retrospect then the living. You suddenly remember your own indescretions, not just theirs. You are suddenly confronted with all the things that you could have done, or should have done, and not just the things that they could and should have done. And there is no changing it, or even going back to appologize. It's over. I guess, when I think of all the things that I could have done differently, all the times I complained needlessly just because I was bored, all the times I got frustrated because he didnt do something as good as I could, all the times that neglected to say thankyou or good job...............I realize the potential of life. I realize that there is no need for us to hurt each other the way we do. Now the tricky part, as you are well aware of I'm sure, is that both people have to be on board. You can give and give until your spent and it wont make a bit of difference if the other person doesnt also participate. I get this too. But maybe by example, if you gave someone a try that didnt necessarily deserve it, and if we all tried to be a little kinder and honest, things would work out a little better for all of us.
I agree with you. Its so easy now a days to just walk away and I do believe a lot of marriages dont work because there is that option to walk away. AND I DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT. I dont agree in walking out of a marriage just because things are a little hard. I do believe in toughing it out and working it out. I want a family. I do not want my kids to grow up only seeing their father every other weekend. I want them to have both of us, all the time.
I also agree that there is a fine line. Children do disrespect. I most certainly went through a rebellious stage where I thought I could do whatever and get away with it until my dad put his foot down. He went marine core on me and straightened me out. All I'm saying is at some point, its important to put your foot down and say NO! And this is clearly evident in your situation as well.
I just do not believe in being miserable or pursuing/fighting for something that cannot be won because the other person is selfish. I have been in that situation and I look back and ask myself.... why did I even subject myself to that? At some point, you know deep down, when its enough... the problem is there is a tendency of ignoring that voice!
I also understand how your situation was difficult because your husband was a good father and a provider that would be honestly difficult for me too. Having said that, like kszan says, that is not the case when most women post here anyways. Its continuous disrespect... over and over again, a lot of times where their husband cheated --with no remorse!
Kszan, I see your point as well and yes, after trying everything, your right. Leave! It's either that or be miserable. However, I have read quite a few of these over the past month, and I have not yet read one.......not saying that there wasnt one out there......where the woman admits to trying counseling, or therapy, or church, or separation, or just finding more of a selfworth for her own life. And how can you say that the people here are all to that point? They may just be surfing the internet, and come accross this board for other reasons, and decide to ask a question.......very similar to how I came here. Now, I dont mean to get down on anyone, and if we were to all be completely honest, who would really make such life altering decisions based on what random strangers tell us over the internet. It is ultimately that person's own decision. But I think we would do more good for these women by showing compassion, telling a story or two, and acting as more of a support system rather then comming of so strong, cold, and telling them to simply leave. That's just my opinion on it.
well mel some of us here do show more compassion than others.....it's a wide spectrum. Of course no one will make a decision solely from one persons opinion on a message board.....(or maybe they do?), but when someone posts their story and it's pretty much a concensis, based on the information we're being given, that everyone says leave, get out, etc.....it's something that person should take into consideration. They posted for advice, and if the overwhelming advice is slanted in one direction, it's a pretty good bet that the advice is right.
I think counseling is appropriate and preferable IF both parties are willing and want to go and work it out. But sometimes this is not the case. I think when you are dealing with a woman who is being subjected to hurtful, self-esteem eroding behavior, even abuse (and you don't have to hit to be very very abusive) and the woman has tried several tactics already to get the man to change and he just won't, then in those situations, when you only have two options, 1) stay and continue to be treated very badly and continue to be sad, miserable and feel lousy about your life or 2) leave, when those are the only two options available, then yes, I think leaving is preferable.