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Old 05-13-2010, 01:58 AM   #1
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fed up with sister's boyfriend

My sister has been dating this guy, I'll call him Bill to protect him, for almost a year. My family is super close, we grew up with a Navy Dad and so often as we moved from town to town, we were each other's first friends. We had the normal childhood disputes etc, but we always came back together. We've all always chosen boyfriends and girlfriends that got along with our family, we still like to hang out and vacation together.

She started dating Bill last year and initially I thought he was just shy. As time progressed though, I started to think he was just rude. We would speak to him and he wouldn't even respond, he'd look at the floor or just walk away. It was rude to the point of being unsettling. My brother has asperger's so, we were patient, we understand social difficulties, we're actually all a little shy too despite being constantly thrown into new situations.

Long story short the two people he is seem so different. We googled him and found him on a body building site. He's on there with tons of pictures that don't seem to indicate a shy personality. He even explains that at body building shows when he's around people he'd rather not interact with he lowers his head and shoves his hands in his pockets and ignores them, which is exactly what he does with us. He's been graduated from college for five years now but still just teachers private music lessons, no stable job which he says he feels no need for until he's ready for a family according to my sister. I wouldn't know, they've been together a year and the man has still not said A WORD to me. Not hi, not bye, nothing. On this website he flirts openly with other girls, even saying he loves our local college because the girls are "hot with low alcohol tolerance = win!" He called our family dysfunctional, calls himself a misanthrope, goes on and on about how he loves to train others because he likes to see the "fear and defeat" in their eyes. All this completely shut the door on simple shyness in my eyes.

My sister and I have chronically bad judgement with men. We've both been in relationships with red flags and ignored them to our own peril. This is the second time in 3 years she's been ready to marry a man who is less than what she deserves. The last one joked about having a threesome with her and my mom in front of my parents, constantly talked about how hot other women were, just general bad news. He was very cold with her. She asked me if in the future I saw her making the same mistakes to tell her so I have with this relationship. Of course she's very offended and completely blows off all my opinions even though the stuff he's said is online and fully available for anyone to read. She's always said i was her best friend and he will not even talk to me. From my own past bad decisions any guy trying to alienate you from the people closest to you is not anything good.

Any advice for me on him, or her and how to handle things? I want to give good advice kindly but at the same time I do not want him to be my new brother in law. I can't figure him out. She swears he's so super nice to her. And yet my parents are two of the nicest most accepting people on earth, we've always joked that whoever we date is lucky because we so have the opposite of the traditional imposing parents. They welcome everyone with love. And yet they don't want him around anymore either which I would usually think would show her she should be careful but she seems more determined than ever to be with him. I actually asked her if he was worth giving up the closeness she currently has with her family and she said she "doesn't know yet."

 
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:35 AM   #2
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

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Originally Posted by bg0324 View Post
They welcome everyone with love. And yet they don't want him around anymore either which I would usually think would show her she should be careful but she seems more determined than ever to be with him. I actually asked her if he was worth giving up the closeness she currently has with her family and she said she "doesn't know yet."
She doesn't know yet? This would indicate to me that on some level, she already knows that if she is going to stay with this man, she knows she will have to choose him over her family. This right there is a huge, big ol' red flag that she's choosing to ignore because any man worth bothering with would not MAKE her choose. The not even responding, the not even looking up and saying "hi" goes way beyond just shyness. To me, it's indicative of pretty deep seated dysfunction. And he says your family is dysfunctional? When he can't even say a simple, polite "hello?"

and the comment about enjoying seeing fear and defeat in someone's eyes, that even smacks of sociopathy. This guy has real problems. It's this kind of guy whose neighbors and acquaintances you see on the news who always say "he kept to himself, quiet guy" right up until the day he blew away his whole family or slaughtered all his in-laws.

This guy is wrong. I would start by reminding your sister "remember when you said you wanted me to tell you whenever I saw you making another mistake with a man? well, hello..." Another regular poster here, Rosequartz, calls it like it is and she often recommends a book, Co-Dependent No More, and I would recommend your sister read it. She doesn't seem to understand that you don't have to love a man more than anything, more than your own life or happiness, more than your own family, in order to love him in a healthy, productive way. She seems like she's already getting ready to throw away her family and everything else for some man who is a self-proclaimed misanthrope and who will no doubt drive a huge wedge between her and her family, who love her like no man ever will. And then, once you've had your say, unfortunately all you can do then is let her make her own decision and pick up the pieces when they come crashing down, and pray he doesn't get violent with her. He stinks to high heaven, I can smell him from here.

 
Old 05-13-2010, 09:23 AM   #3
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

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Originally Posted by bg0324 View Post
he flirts openly with other girls, even saying he loves our local college because the girls are "hot with low alcohol tolerance = win!" He called our family dysfunctional, calls himself a misanthrope, goes on and on about how he loves to train others because he likes to see the "fear and defeat" in their eyes.
Wow... I think this guy has serious issues. Anyone procaliming to be a masanthrope should not be in a realtionship. He seems sociopathic, and that statement about liking to see fear and defeat in peoples eyes...and about drunk women? What does your sister say about those statments?

 
Old 05-13-2010, 01:09 PM   #4
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

Your sister will do what she wants. She's an adult. Not much you can do. We all like to substitute our judgment for those we love, but it does not work that way.

 
Old 05-13-2010, 01:24 PM   #5
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

does your sister know about his website and how he flirts with other girls?

 
Old 05-13-2010, 02:52 PM   #6
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

Hm.

Well, first- if your sister says he treats her well then (IMO) you've got no business trying to bust up her relationship. It would be nice if he got along with your family, but it's not a requirement in a marriage. Lots of marriages exist where a spouse cannot STAND the other spouses family.

Second- you are assuming that because the guy can function online and in public situations that it translates to him being able to easily communicate on a more personal level. I know someone who is a VP for a financial institution who communicates well in writing and at a professional level, who simply is incapable of starting a conversation with family or friends, and people have to try to get him to participate in conversations. Some people think he's a snob, but reality is that he freezes up, forgets people's names, and doesn't want to make a fool of himself.

Clearly some of what your sister's BF says online is out of line. My suggestion to you is to say, "I was looking online and look what I found" and don't judge, just let her read it and see how she reacts.

The most important thing is whether the guy makes HER happy, not whether you or your parents like him. You should support your sister's decision no matter what she does.

 
Old 05-13-2010, 07:52 PM   #7
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

My guess is that if you try to interfere too much, she will start avoiding you and you might lose your relationship with her.
When my husband and I were dating, his family didn't accept me because one day I got out of the shower and had a large bath towel on, and a family member saw me that I didn't know was there. I was fully covered and didn't think much of it. From then on, I wasn't allowed over and I didn't know why until someone I worked with told me they had heard the reason why from another family member who wasn't even there. I was crushed because everyone at my work knew, but I didn't. I'm sure there was more to it, because the guy I worked with probably told them how all the guys liked me at work, that didn't help things with his family, I'm sure. The wierd thing was that my husband wasn't even living with his family, but his mother made the decision that I couldn't be at his place. My husband didn't bother telling me because he thought I had a right to be there. He was an adult in his mid twenties! Then one day his sister let me know that he was not to have guests! I have never felt accepted to this day by his family, I still don't understand the big deal. They always thought I was too sexual is what I heard? I have never cheated on him, but they used to say I wore too much makeup. I also used to do alot of working out at the gym like your sister's boyfriend. My husband's family thinks they are very close and mean well, also, like yours. My point is if he wasn't raised in a family like yours, maybe he feels uncomfortable and knows you and your parents don't accept him. And be careful what you say to her, because it may get back to him from someone else. Or maybe it already has. Through the years I have heard everything his mother has ever said about me through his gossipy and vindictive aunt. I try to avoid them all and always try to have an excuse not to come around. It's harder now to come up with excuses now that I don't have a demanding job. Just be careful, words and nonverbal signals can hurt someone.

 
Old 05-15-2010, 09:56 AM   #8
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

I'm certainly not trying to "bust up" her relationship. I get that there's plenty of relationships where spouses don't get along with families, I was just hoping that wouldn't be her situation. We're a genuinely close family and it is out of her character to be willing to give that up. She's my sister and I love and support her no matter what, it isn't conditional. But she has a weakness in this area of her life that she's specifically asked for my help with so I'm trying to help her in whatever way I can. I get kind of a chill when I think about this guy. He makes me nervous. I do have issue with him being grown with no job, I have an issue with him using his grandma to pay his bills at age 28, but what worries me are other things. This presenting himself as a shy guy but functioning perfectly around those he chooses to, talking about women how he does, the stories he writes (about werewolves devouring animals and the occasional child) are disturbing to say the least. I also have to admit that like others I let my past relationships affect how I view this. The only guy I ever dated who was so interested in dividing me from my family/friends ended up being abusive. I see things in him that worry me. And I understand that some of you may have experiences with families that have given you grief and I can respect that. This isn't a family that goes around gossiping or trying to destroy people like that though. It has been a year of this guy literally turning and walking away or just looking at the floor when anyone talks to him except my sister and he will occasionally answer my mom. Never anything to me or my brother though. He's given her an STD. He doesn't like his own family either, if that makes a difference. He just doesn't seem to like anyone, except my sister. The thing he said about liking to see fear and defeat in people's eyes is what bothers me the most I guess. It just seems really sick to want to see that in someone else. I don't know, we were always taught to pay attention to the way a guy treats the waitress because that's how he treats people he isn't trying to impress, which will be you one day. People grow accustomed to their loved ones and then the real person comes out. Anyway, she's seen the posts and thinks he "can change" which in my experience doesn't happen. People are what they are usually, I think it's a bad idea to get involved with someone on the hopes that they may change.

 
Old 05-15-2010, 10:10 AM   #9
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

If she knows about his posts and internet activity, and she has made the decision to stay with him, there's not anything you can do. I'm not suggesting that you pretend to like him or pretend not to be concerned. What do you think you can do? It seems you are wasting your time because he's the way he is and she has accepted him that way. You need to get your mind on other things because you can't make decisions for her.

 
Old 05-15-2010, 10:14 AM   #10
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

[QUOTE
The most important thing is whether the guy makes HER happy, not whether you or your parents like him. You should support your sister's decision no matter what she does.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you, my problem is that she has been like this with every single guy she's been with. She's 24, this is the second guy she's been ready to marry in two years that is a mess. The other guy would talk about threesomes with my mom, posted on the internet for one night stands etc... She has no standards but that the man accept her. She's pretty, smart and talented but thinks very little of herself which I think hugely influences her decision making. She's in love with every guy, every guy is special, and she doesn't demand any sort of good treatment for herself. I've always wished that she would date a guy who lifted her up, made the bad parts of her better and the good parts even greater but I haven't said anything about who she's dated in the past just wanting her to see for herself. That being said, I've been in an abusive relationship and I get that same hair on the back of my neck standing up type feeling about this guy. So I'm scared for her. And I think this hands off approach is easier said than done when you're scared for someone you love.

 
Old 05-15-2010, 11:10 AM   #11
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

I think you're right to be scared for her. This guy sounds like a freak. I'd be scared, too. And your sister sounds unhealthy. Very low self esteem, and not really capable of acting in her own best interest. I think your instincts are right about this guy, and you should listen to them.

On the flip side, she is an adult and no, you cannot make decisions for her. But I don't think you should just let it be when her happiness, even her safety and mental health are on the line here. I think you should tell her just one more time that you are concerned for her. Just tell her what you see, and try not to make any kind of value judgment on HIM if possible. And let her know you will be there for her and you will never say "I told you so" and that if she ever needs help, she can come to you. You're absolutely right. It won't be long before he'll be wanting to see fear and defeat in your sister's eyes. He's exhibiting classic abuser early behavior, trying to separate her from her allies and support system so she'll be easier to control. Without judging, try to get her to see for herself that this guy is not good for her rather than you trying to convince her. Like, he treats her well - well, how? I can understand not getting along with your SO's family, but downright refusing to even look at them or respond with a simple "hi" or "yeah"? Wouldn't she like a guy who could at least make an attempt to get along with her family? Keep us posted on what happens. I'm kind of concerned for her now myself.

 
Old 05-16-2010, 12:54 AM   #12
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

LLM has hit the nail on the head. My daughter's first boyfriend was just like this. He rushed her out of the house on every date, never ate with us, or wanted just to chat etc etc. The longer she was with him, the more controlling he became. Luckily she got her mojo back in time and dumped him. The others are right, there is nothing you can do to persuade her. The best thing you can do for her is to ignore his attempts to separate her from you. Hang in there as a family, be "passing by" as often as is feasible, hound her with invitations to every family event; make it totally obvious to him that you are there for her. NEVER criticise him to her, yet talk to her about her own behaviour eg, "You used to love seeing weepy films with me, can we start that again?" If he goes against this sort of thing, it will show her sooner how her life is narrowing. I hope it all works out, but the bottom line is that it is her life. Sera.

 
Old 05-16-2010, 10:58 AM   #13
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

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If she knows about his posts and internet activity, and she has made the decision to stay with him, there's not anything you can do. I'm not suggesting that you pretend to like him or pretend not to be concerned. What do you think you can do? It seems you are wasting your time because he's the way he is and she has accepted him that way. You need to get your mind on other things because you can't make decisions for her.
Again, I kind of think you're reading this as your own situation because your husband's family has hurt you by disliking you and being rude to you. That isn't what I'm trying to do. I feel the guy is dangerous for her. I am worried about her. I didn't know if there was some book I could recommend for her, maybe something I could say to her that would make her understand my concerns. Not that that has to change her mind or make her decision different, but at least I've done what I could. I'm not looking for random meanness because he and I have different ideas about sexuality or religion. I'm not a close minded person and I'm not about that kind of lifestyle. I'm a pediatric nurse, I do animal rescue for a hobby, I'm a mom, I'm about loving my world and the inhabitants of it. It is a rare person I can't find something to like about. But he gives me a chill and this is my sister. I don't want to make a decision for her, I just want her to be safe. I only posted here for a perspective that might help me understand how to help her. One poster was kind enough to recommend a book, so I can get that for her and maybe help her that way. I understand there's maybe nothing I can do. Have you read about that UVA student who was murdered by her boyfriend? People knew, her friends knew, his knew that their relationship was out of control. But nobody did enough or went to the right people because all people of authority (i.e. parents, coaches etc) had no idea. I'm not trying to blame these kids, they are kids and they probably had no clue it would or could go where it did. But I'm grown and I've seen the consequences and I can't sit by and do/say nothing when I'm worried for my sister. I came here just looking for a balanced way to approach and help her, that's all. I don't know if you saw in my first post, this is an almost 30 year old man who talks about taking advantage of underage drunk girls. He talks about how stupid everyone is but him, he's negative about everyone. He's rude to my family. He tries to isolate my sister from family/friends. This isn't a guy I just don't care for his personality or whatever. My sister has been my best friend and she has changed to a point where it is sometimes weird being around her. Anyway,a few people have said things like I'm trying to bust up her relationship/I can't make decisions for her etc... I'm not attempting to make decisions for her and I get that it is her life and ultimately her choices will make up that life. I just want to do my part as her sister and friend to make sure she's safe and happy. And I know her, she has this chronically low self esteem and she accepts less than she deserves. I have also raised her half her life and I feel a responsibility that she is happy and ok. So, again, if all I can do is nothing, I'm open to hearing that. If people have had success with books, videos, support groups, I'm open to that too. I am not looking to make him feel bad or control her life, but I do want her to have someone great who loves her and is faithful to her and respects her. That's all I'm looking for, is how to help her in the best way possible.

Last edited by bg0324; 05-16-2010 at 11:48 AM.

 
Old 05-16-2010, 11:42 AM   #14
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

larrylou, thanks so much for your advice, and thank you for recommending the book. Heading out to get it for her later, then I'm just going to back off and pray she's safe. I'm not sure there's anything more I could say. She knows I'm here if she needs me.

 
Old 05-16-2010, 12:04 PM   #15
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Re: fed up with sister's boyfriend

My "niece" (ex's niece, to whom I'm very close) is going through something not really the same, but a bad situation. Her BF doesn't like her to go anywhere without him. Every time I take her somewhere (I'm pretty much her only friend, all her friends have given up), her BF gives her a hard time. He demands oral sex from her in order for him to give his "permission" for her to go somewhere and if she doesn't for some reason, he starts an argument. Then, the entire time she's out, he bombards her with calls and texts...non-stop, until she's in tears. He accuses her of being drunk, using drugs and hooking up with guys. Then, when she gets home (they live together), he berates her for days, "punishing" her for having the nerve to have any friends or activities without him. She's finally concluded that it's just too much of a hassle to deal with his crap, so she's decided to just sit at home all the time. She's started ignoring my calls and texts (her BF hates me because I take her shopping, to lunch and to other activities, therefore I'm evil) or she makes up weak excuses to not get together with me. She's only "allowed" to spend time with her other aunt or her grandfather...that's it. So now she lives this sad life where she just sits at home doing nothing. He even put a password on the computer so she can't talk to anyone online, and he bought her a new phone with a new number (he paid for it, so he has the right to decide who she talks to with it!!!).

This is such a sad situation, because she does have a supportive family who will help her, but she chooses to stay with him because she feels she has nowhere else to go, and he keeps insisting he "loves" her and can't live without her. All I can do is let her know that I am here if she needs me and if things ever get out of hand she has people who can help. This guy has shoved her around a few times, but he convinced her it was her fault for making him angry (talking to a friend, not giving him oral sex when he demands it).

I know you're trying to prevent your sister from getting into this kind of situation. All you can do is let her know you love her and always will, and if she ever needs anything all she has to do is let you know. And tell her she never needs to feel ashamed or embarassed if she needs help, because you'd never blame her or give her a hard time.
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