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Old 05-31-2010, 01:36 PM   #1
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Don't know what to tell her...

I have a friend that I met through work. She had a history of dating not so nice guys. My boyfriend and I decided to set her up with a work friend of his who seemed like a nice guy. The two of them hit it off and have been dating for 2 years.

I have since quit my job and me and her have fallen out of contact. We recently started talking again.

Her boyfriend was on a trip this weekend and her and I were together Saturday and then again on Sunday. On Saturday she mentioned that her boyfriend had won this trip through a work raffle. My boyfriend and hers still work at the same place. My boyfriend told me that someone at work was organizing the trip and that it was some kind of "party tour bus". My boyfriend was invited to go but declined. He told me that it was $200.00 a head to go and mentioned nothing about a raffle. When me and her got together we dicussed the trip and red flags went up when we learnt about the discrepancies in their stories.

I tried to assure her that maybe there had been a raffle at work and maybe my boyfriend didn't know about it. I called him while I was with her (at her request) to figure out what was going on. He told me (on speaker phone, not knowing she was there) that there was no raffle and that it was indeed a "party bus". He also mentioned that it was mostly girls on the bus. She was under the impression that it was him and 3 other guys from work that had won the raffle and that it was going to be a quiet getaway.

I saw her again the next day and she had done some investigative work of her own the night before. She found a link to the page describing the trip which was exactally as my boyfriend had described. She also hacked his email account and found that he had recently joined a local dating website.

She is freaking out and has been unable to contact him all weekend as he refused to buy a calling card for his phone.

I also happen to know through a mutual friend of our boyfriends that her boyfriend has been hanging out with a mystery girl lately. I didn't tell her about the girl.

All of these things tell me that he is cheating. If it were me I would be furious and would without a doubt end things with my boyfriend.

She is coming to me for advice and I don't know what to tell her. She is REALLY hung up on this guy. She says that he is the one and if he were to ever leave her that she would be really depressed and swear off men for good.

He came home early this morning from his trip and went into work this afternoon. She sent him a text saying that they really need to talk after work. I guess he figured out what was going on because he called my boyfriend to ask if he had said anything to me about the trip and if her and I had seen each other this weekend. My boyfriend and him aren't really close at all and my boyfriend had no idea that the trip was any kind of a secret or about the raffle story. He told him that he had told me about the trip, that her and I were together this weekend and that it was likely that we had discussed it. He also told my boyfriend that things have been rocky between them the past month or so and that she does things lately that really annoy him and that he needed to get away from her. He said that he was going to cover with another lie but my boyfriend suggested that he just be honest.

I haven't said any of this to her as I think it is best that they discuss this themselves. BUT she has been calling me all day for advice and I don't know what to tell her...

I feel like if it was me in this situation that I would demand to know what was going on. He lied to her and very likely cheated and I feel very strongly about honesty in a relationship. I feel like if I tell her to be strong, stand her ground and to confront him that he will leave her. He seems to be flip flopping about their relationship at the moment and if she starts yelling and demanding he will likely walk away.

I feel like if I tell her to passively confront him and be understanding about him needing his space that he is just going to walk all over her. ie. saying something like "I understand why you went but I wish you had been honest with me". I feel like this gives him permission to string her along while he cheats on her.

She feels like he really does love her. They have talked about marriage she has a "promise ring". He helped her buy a car by giving her the down payment. She is really close with his family etc. She also thinks that their relationship is really good and has mentioned nothing about it being "rocky".

I just don't know what to tell her..... I suppose that it is possible that he hasn't cheated and that he just needed some space and I don't want to tell her to go in fighting and then they break up. I do however think that it is VERY likely that he has cheated. The trip, the mystery girl and the dating website are bad signs and I don't want to tell her to try to save a relationship that is probably not worth saving....

I know that she has to decide what to do on her own but as I am the only person that knows about this she is coming to me for advice. She has been flip flopping herself all weekend about what to do. I know that she wants things to work between them and I really feel like the only way for this to work is if they are both honest and committed and chose to work on these issues.

I could really use an an unbiased opinion here....

Last edited by d3sire; 05-31-2010 at 01:39 PM.

 
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:58 PM   #2
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

Well, I don't think she really has to confront him or talk to him at all. This decision is all hers. All you have to do is look at the facts. We know for a fact that he is annoyed by her and no longer enjoys being around her. We know for a fact that he lied to her so he could get away from her ON A HOLIDAY WEEKEND and go partying with other women. We know for a fact that he deliberately set out to deceive her and play her for a fool and didn't have enough respect for her as a fellow human being or enough respect for her intelligence to actually think she would figure it out. We know for a fact that he handles stress and bumpy patches in this relationship by lying and running off with other women. We know for a fact that your friend is not really seeing this relationship very clearly, as he was unhappy enough to lie to her just so he could get away from her because he's been so annoyed by her and she had no clue there were even any problems. We know for a fact that he's been looking for other women on dating sites. We know for a fact he's found at least one to go out with behind your friend's back. Now, knowing all those facts, does it really matter whether or not he actually stuck his monster in any of these women? It wouldn't matter one rip to me. And if she is worried HE will stomp out and leave her if she says "What the hell is the deal with this weekend trip that you lied to me about, your having a profile on dating sites, and this chick that people have seen you around town with??!!" then that's a very HUGE big red flag. She's letting him walk all over her, cowering in fear that he will leave her if she stands up for herself and tries to stop him from treating her like a fool. Hello....if he cared at all about her, if he were worried about losing her at all, at the VERY VERY least he'd be terrified about what she's going to do with all this information. But SHE'S the one worried about HIM leaving??? That's seriously messed up.

She needs to decide if she wants to stay with a man who is no longer into her. Does she want to waste her time standing on her head trying to please and appease a man who has already emotionally checked out of the relationship, finds her annoying and lies to her to get away from her and goes trolling for other women on dating sites, but who she still has to mind her manners with and watch what she says in case he'll get fed up and walk away, which he will eventually do because he's already got one foot out the door already? If that's what she wants, then she should stay, because that's what she's got. If that's not what she wants, then she will have to leave in order to find what she wants because she won't find it with this man. But there doesn't have to be any discussion, there doesn't have to be any big confrontation or blow up. We all already know pretty much what went on and why. All that needs to happen now is for her to make her decision. But just my two cents, it sounds like leaving her would be the nicest thing he's done for her in a long time.

Last edited by Larrylou'smom; 05-31-2010 at 02:17 PM.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 02:31 PM   #3
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

I think you should be wary of giving your friend advice. Instead, only tell her what you know for sure but let her come to her own conclusions. The unfortunate fact is that when a friend informs a friend that the boyfriend is cheating, it's often the friend and not the boyfriend that ends up getting the boot.

You can only be her friend right now. Let her make her own decisions, even if you disagree with them. In fact, insist that she make her own decisions because if you impose your will on her and later she regrets taking your advice she will blame you and your friendship will suffer.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 02:31 PM   #4
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

Because she's your friend, I would tell her everything you know and everything that you are suspecting. I would also offer to be there for her and offer to take her out to get her mind off of this guy. Let her know that she's not alone and that if she feels like she needs someone to hold her hand to dump this guy, that you will be there to help her do it.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 02:40 PM   #5
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

Yes, I guess I ranted a bit in my reply. This guy just sounds like a total scumbag. But I would ask her if she wants to know the truth about waht you know in addition to what she herself has discovered. I would advise her not to sit him down, yell at him, or really discuss this with him in any way. What would be the point? Like the others have said, just let her know this is what you know, and you will stick by her if she decides she no longer wants to be in this kind of relationship.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 02:41 PM   #6
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

I agree. If it were me the lying and deceit alone would be enough for me to walk away. She however is still on the fence about what to do.

I have not told her about the girl as I don't think it is my place to say anything nor do I want to start drama at work for my boyfriend as he is the source. I don't know who this girl is. She could be a friend, maybe my friend even knows who she is. Should I tell her about the girl?

I also haven't mentioned the phone conversation between our boyfriends as again I don't want to suck my boyfriend into the middle of this.

I am having a difficult time deciding what to tell her.... She plans on calling me after work for advice before she sees him and I don't know what to say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrylou'smom View Post
We know for a fact that he is annoyed by her and no longer enjoys being around her. We know for a fact that he lied to her so he could get away from her ON A HOLIDAY WEEKEND and go partying with other women. We know for a fact that he deliberately set out to deceive her and play her for a fool and didn't have enough respect for her as a fellow human being or enough respect for her intelligence to actually think she would figure it out. We know for a fact that he handles stress and bumpy patches in this relationship by lying and running off with other women. We know for a fact that your friend is not really seeing this relationship very clearly, as he was unhappy enough to lie to her just so he could get away from her because he's been so annoyed by her and she had no clue there were even any problems. We know for a fact that he's been looking for other women on dating sites. We know for a fact he's found at least one to go out with behind your friend's back.
What you said above pretty much sums up MY feelings. BUT do I tell her this?? This is a girl that has a history of abuse. She has been in abusive relationships and has been abused as a child. Her judgement is a bit clouded....

OR

Do I try to stay out of it? When she asks for my advice do I back down?

I strongly feel that she needs to rid herself of this guy but do I voice that or keep it to myself??

Knowing what I know what would YOU say to her when she calls???

Last edited by d3sire; 05-31-2010 at 02:41 PM.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 03:15 PM   #7
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

All you can do is tell her, "I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I would do if I was in your shoes." and then tell her what you would do if it were your problem. But make sure she understands that you're not telling her what to do, you're just letting her know how you would handle it if it was you going through it.

That's all you can do. You can't make the decision for her. Just be there for her as much as you can.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 03:30 PM   #8
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

Well, I can understand not wanting to make static with your boyfriend at work, but the flip side to that is that you guys set her up with this guy, and now he's crapping all over her. You've got to feel at least a little responsible for that. Your boyfriend was nice enough to set this guy up with a nice girl. The least this guy could do was at least be honest with her and not mess her around. Your boyfriend has some right to be upset about this as well. I'm kind of wondering what is it about this guy that he can act like this and still have everyone so scared that he will be upset if someone dares to call him on his BS? Is there any way you can be this girl's friend AND this guy's friend? If so I'd say do that, but this guy seems to have taken that option away from you. By doing this to your friend, he has kind of already decided not to be your friend, or a friend to your boyfriend, either. I once shut my mouth about things my boyfriend's roommate was doing behind his girlfriend's back in order to keep the peace between my boyfriend and his roommate, and between myself and my boyfriend. I've regretted it ever since. The boyfriend is long gone over other things, and I have to live with knowing I did the wrong thing, and I contributed to a sweet girl getting really hurt.

Again, I would ask your friend if she wants to know. Is this other woman the only think you know that she doesn't? You already told her about the party bus, and she found the web site, right? And she knows he's on that dating site. As I said, I would just lay out the facts for her and ask her if this is really the kind of relationship she wants to be in, if this guy is really the kind of guy she wants to be with, and is being treated like this what she really thinks she deserves. If she says yes to any of these questions, then her problems are much bigger than this one lousy guy. But yes, ultimately it is her decision.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 04:01 PM   #9
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

I'd watch what you tell her, I mean she already knows enough that she needs to be leaving him. I mean the guy's joined a dating service...what more does she need to know I mean REALLY!? This is what I believe is going on, he's keeping her around until he finds a good replacement and then he'll just leave her high and dry. He's "shopping around" right now.
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:25 PM   #10
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

Well I spoke to her for about 5 minutes. She called saying that she was on her way to meet him. She did most of the talking and was trying to rationalize why he lied to her. I think she has decided that he didn't tell her about the party bus because he wanted to just get away and he didn't want to upset her with the details.... It sounds like total garbage to me but I am not sure as to what extent I should interfere. I wanted to talk more but she cut me off before I really had a chance to say anything.

About 20 minutes later she calls and says that her boyfriend wants to to talk to me. She puts him on the phone and he says "I am really sorry to have put you in the middle of this, thanks for being a good friend and being there for her. She means the world to me". UGH!

I haven't spoken to her since but it seems like they have patched things up.

What really bothers me is he was just on the phone with my boyfriend telling him how annoying she is and how he isn't sure about their relationship. I think he may have covered the whole thing with more lies as that is what he told my boyfriend he intended to do.

I think at this point I am just going to back off. She knows that he outright lied about the trip. She found the details herself online on a social networking site. The site even stated that it was a party bus for SINGLES. She found him on a dating website. He had his picture up with a little blog stating that he is an "interesting guy" and if interested to "contact him". She did all the digging up herself and yet she is willing to just ignore it....

I think she knows something is fishy but she is willing to go along with it for the sake of her relationship. I think this sends a clear message to him that he can do whatever he wants and that she will turn a blind eye. I know she will end up hurt in the long run but I feel that it is best to leave it alone.

I feel like if I go to her with the information about this girl he has been hanging out with or tell her about what her boyfriend said to mine on the phone that she will just get mad at me. She has the facts and has chosen to continue having a relationship with this guy. There is really nothing I can do.

LarryLou'smom, as for what you said about feeling some level of responsibility for having set them up in the first place. I do feel somewhat reponsible.... I met him a few times before we set them up and he really seemed like a good guy. He told my boyfriend that he was tired of dating around and wanted to find someone to settle down with and we thought they would be a good match. I know it isn't my fault that things went sour but I do feel a little guilty. As for this guy having everyone too scared to call him out on his BS. It isn't that my boyfriend is scared to call him out it is just that they work together and I don't want to stir things up for my boyfriend. The information about the mystery girl came from a mutual work friend of our boyfriends. I don't want a whole "this person told me this" and "he said that" and "why did you tell this person that" situation. My boyfriend and this guy do work together but they aren't particularly close.

I suppose I just have to let it be.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 05:07 PM   #11
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

She has to be ready to leave him. She isn't yet. Right now, she'd rather keep him than acknowledge the truth. Her self-esteem must be pretty low, and in her mind, if they split up it will be yet another failure, on HER part. She just can't face that right now. She'd rather have some of him, lies and all, than have none of him and be alone.

It's so sad...but there's nothing you can do. I was in a relationship for four years with a guy who repeatedly cheated on me and lied to me about it, even when evidence was right in front of my face. I found a million ways to rationalize staying with him because at the time, my self-esteem was in the toilet. I would rather just put up with the lies and the cheating than not have him at all. Now, I see what garbage that was, but I had to be pushed out of the relationship (he finally broke up with me when he knew for sure he had my replacement wrapped up). She probably will too, when he finally dumps her. I just hope she's strong enough to realize it's for the best when it finally does happen.

Such a sad story...and it must be extremely hard for you to stand by. I know it was for my friends, but thankfully I am fine now and do not miss my ex one bit. I hope she's strong enough to get through it too.
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:44 PM   #12
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3sire View Post
About 20 minutes later she calls and says that her boyfriend wants to to talk to me. She puts him on the phone and he says "I am really sorry to have put you in the middle of this, thanks for being a good friend and being there for her. She means the world to me". UGH!
I believe I would have hung up on him! He put himself in this position, he needs to know that you and your boyfriend aren't going to cover for him. By asking to talk to you, he was in an indirect way, threatening you not to say anything else to her. What a Jerk!

Let her find out the hard way if she called you to let him put you in your place! Doesn't seem like much of a friend to me. She deserves what she gets! And when she comes back crying to you, tell her you didn't tell her everything you knew because she made it clear that she didn't want to hear it.

 
Old 05-31-2010, 10:25 PM   #13
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

It is very sad. Like I said, she has bigger problems than just this guy. She has serious self esteem problems and until she deals with herself, she will be abused and messed around by men for the rest of her life.

But all you can do is be there to pick up the pieces. BUT you don't have to enable her, either. You don't have to spend hours listening to her whine and cry about the things he does, and you don't have to believe all his nonsense he spewed at you today. You can just say "I'm sorry he's choosing to do these things to, but you're choosing to let him." And then change the subject. It's really a shame she doesn't believe she deserves any better. But he is slick as snot, I'll give him that.

 
Old 06-01-2010, 07:02 AM   #14
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

She has very low self esteem and will continue to take this abuse, especially if it is in her history. Like many have said, she has to be the one to make the decision to leave this scumbag.
The idea of changing the subject when she brings it up is probably a good idea--I do not think I would want to be a part of it all.

I do not understand why women want to involve themselves (and stay involved) with men like this--it is very demeaning and this woman will always have a hard time unless she seeks help in breaking her cycle of dependence on abusive relationships.

Best of luck!

 
Old 06-01-2010, 01:26 PM   #15
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Re: Don't know what to tell her...

I agree with Larrylou'smom.

There are already know facts that your friend should consider. Regardless if he actually cheated or not, the reality is that he lied and he is doing stuff behind her back.

I guess that what I would say, is to ask your friend if she wants to be in a relationship where whe is being decieved and where her boyfriend goes off on trips just because he is unhappy with her. I bet she doesn't. Its unfortunate she is dealing with an abusive past, because its making her feel like she has no power or say. I would advise her to stand up for her own truth, and if the guy leaves her, then it was not a relationship worth trying to hold onto. If the guy is still invested, he will hear her out and understand. But it sounds like he already has that foot out the door.

 
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