Hello! Some may remember a previous post of mine, asking why my ex always comes back. He is the worst person I ever met. I was never made to feel as bad as he made me feel this past weekend. As a recap, over the years he would always find me, make me feel like he's learned so much about life but would always run. Well, he ran again this time, but not before ripping my heart from my chest. This time around, we would keep in touch every few days. He would always "like" what I did on Facebook. He sent a picture of roses to my phone on Valentines Day. He actually followed through with making plans to get together. HE asked me if I wanted brunch or dinner. It was the first time I saw him in 9 years. I was surprised he followed through. We went to dinner, went to the golf driving range, and went for coffee. He tried nothing sexually. We had a great time. But during the night he told me he was still a d-bag. I was thrown but felt he was looking for acceptance. Like it was his way of telling me he isn't the man he wants to be. I KNOW HE ENJOYED BEING WITH ME!!! We kissed at the end of the night and said we'd like to get together again. He told me he was so nervous but was pleasantly surprised when we kissed. I thought maybe this was the time...as grown "adults" we would work to understand each other and find ways to accept our differences.
Once again, things took a turn. He backed off. I would write and he would respond like a day or two later, or hours later. So I backed off. Then he would send a picture of something I like and say "Thinking of you." I tried to play casual b/c I didn't want him to have all the power. But when I wrote, I started to get a short response and a ttys or gotta go. I was being blown off....AGAIN. What a fool, right...for believing it could work. This past week, he put up a picture of him sleeping on Facebook. Right away...WHO took the picture???? My heart sank. My therapist brought up BPD or Narcissism. She mentioned many of his actions mirror both. I was having a very hard time b/c once again I was put in a position to just be at a distance, and watch what he does on Facebook and not contact me anymore, or reach out and see what the deal was.
I'm very blind when it comes to others giving me attention. I usually miss someone flirting with me or trying to talk to me. It goes right over my head. Yet I can't explain why this situation is so clear to me...even when he treats me like garbage. I feel the same way I felt 9 years ago. He knows he can have a good thing with me, but is terrified. He knows he has issues but doesn't want to address them. He knows I see through the world he's created, of pot smoking, drinking, and other screw around behavior. He reaches out to me because he initially wants to try but can't handle it and runs. WHY DOES HE SEEK ME OUT???? WHY DOES HE COME BACK??? If you want nothing to do with me...why? Why take me out? You can have any girl. Why me?
SaturdayI sent him a picture of me of a celebrity I met. He responded it was awesome. We had a few back and forths and then he cut me short with "I gotta go." So I called him out on it. I told him I expected that. He said "whatever that means." I said it means that I expected him to have to go. That I was reaching out and he pulled away..again. So I was expecting him to have to go. I told him he was playing the same game. The following was the most hurtful thing anyone has ever said to me.
"Fine...the reason I have to go is because my friend just walked in with breakfast, and then she's taking me to the Yankee game. If you wanna start sh*t for no reason, you won. I'm done with you once again. I've moved past your bullsh*t. I don't want to hang out with you. I didn't even want to see you that night we hung out. Have a nice life...we could have stayed friends. I told you that on our date (No he didn't). I didn't want you to be the rebound girl cause you were too good for that, but now I don't care anymore."
I cried for hours. How could someone be so cruel and hurtful? I did nothing wrong but believe in him. My question.....why does he come to me? I don't seek him out..he finds me. Am I dumb to believe he has feelings and just can't handle it? Are his actions the actions of someone with BPD? Does he hate me that much or is it himself he hates and it's easier to be mean to others to avoid himself? I feel so sad and angry. I did nothing to deserve how he treated me or spoke to me. Over the years, it was obvious he wasn't nice to me, yet I always rooted for him b/c of the deeper issue with depression. I never wanted anyone to give up on me because of my depression, therefore I never gave up on him. What did I do wrong and why does he do this to me? Why does he hate me so much to hurt me as he has? I feel awful about myself. I don't buy a word of the cruelness that he wrote but yet feel so terrible. I feel they are just hurtful words because he is a coward and can't man up. I just don't understand. I feel like such a fool.
It's simple - because you allow him! You give him permission to treat you this way. Many women would have been long gone!
Delete him from Facebook, change your cell #, and move on with your life. You will find that all the drama will also be gone, and you will be able to move on with your life.
__________________
"There's a big difference in playing the victim than in causing your own personal drama." -BK
The Following User Says Thank You to Belly Kelly For This Useful Post: pendulum (05-01-2012)
I think it's safe to say that he is not the right guy for you. I think at this point you'll agree, after everything he has done to you to hurt you. Do you think maybe now, after how mean he was to you, that you'd be willing to cut it off once and for all? As has already been suggested, block him online, change your number and don't let him find you again.
Figuring out his motives isn't as important as cutting him off from now on regardless of his reasons. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out why but it really doesn't matter why. Whether or not you know the reason, he has still always been and always will be all wrong for you. Now that you can see how mean he is with what he said to you, it's time to put the situation and him in a closed chapter. There is no reason to revisit it again since you have a ton of experience with how it will end up, and since you know what a total d-bag he is and always will be. Stay away and you'll never have to feel this way again.
Time to once and for all stop allowing this guy to use you for entertainment when he feels bored & feels like he has nothing better to do.
He isn't going to "change", there isn't some wonderful happily-ever-after prince hiding underneath all the meanness, drug use and drama. You've invented this "prince", he doesn't really exist.
Is this time going to be the last time? For your sake, I hope so. He just plain isn't worth it.
Thank you for your responses. I don't know the hold he has over me and why I give him so many chances. My most recent ex...I put him in his place immediately if something bothered me. I don't get this. I definitely fell into thinking we were supposed to be better for each other at another time. I know I have to just move ahead, no more chances. But I just don't get it. I still feel he has feelings but can't own up to them. Please don't take that as me being a conceited person. I'm very unsure of things most of the time, hence therapy. Yet I feel so strongly about this. I guess I'm mad that I won't get an honest answer from him. I do believe he has feelings but I also know he knows I've given him so many chances, so that's where he comes back I guess. I've written some letters to him, to help me vent. I don't plan on sending them; just using them as a way to get through the feelings. One minute I feel really strong, like "screw him." The next I feel all of the pain of those hurtful words. I never responded to his text because I didn't want to stoop to his level (as much as I knew I could dig just as deep). I also didn't have the energy. I don't like the roller coaster of feelings. I can do without that.
I still feel he has feelings but can't own up to them. I feel so strongly about this. I guess I'm mad that I won't get an honest answer from him. I do believe he has feelings but I also know he knows I've given him so many chances, so that's where he comes back I guess.
The way I see it, this is your biggest problem. You're not taking him at face value. You've assigned all these deep down secret traits, "I KNOW he's this that or the other, but he's just scared, he's just this and that." All this really is, is you giving yourself justifications and rationalizations to not give up on him. Because of the pheramones or the oxytocin or something, this guy's really gotten under your skin and you just can't bring yourself to face the fact that he's just not that into you. Then why does he keep coming back? there's only one real answer to that question - WHO CARES??!! It's none of your business why he keeps coming back. It's not your business, and it's not your problem. The ONLY thing you should care about or be concerned with at all is that he doesn't understand you and he doesn't treat you right. Why doesn't matter. You're looking for that secret magic key. If you could only figure out why he does the things he does, you can fix him, you can unlock his heart and make him into the man you want to be, if you can only figure out and fix WHY. But that's just not how it works. there is no magic key, and there is no answer to "why?" I hope one day you will be able to see that going through life saying "oww, why do you keep smacking me around? What can I do to make you stop??" is no way to live, and you need to start learning how to say "Go away. You smack me around whenever you get near me. You have lost the right to be near me. Goodbye." You will never be happy or be at peace with yourself until you learn how to do this. With everyone, including this guy.
He's given you an "honest answer" with his actions.
People who behave this way are not "scared of commitment", they are not "refusing to admit their feelings", and they are not "afraid of getting hurt". They come around when they have some free time and nothing or no one else to fill it with. He comes around because he knows you'll leap at the chance to hang out with him and he can be rude and inconsiderate and completely disregard your feelings and you'll still keep allowing him into your life.
It's the woman who won't allow him to do any of those things that will grab and keep his attention. Making ourselves overly available to a man and allowing him to take advantage of us is a sure way to make him lose interest.
Next time he crawls out of the woodwork and suggests hanging out, I recommend you be busy. Permanently.
Give him ZERO availability! He's earned it.
I'm all for giving someone consideration. I'm all for the benefit of the doubt. But there's a ceiling for this. That ceiling is when YOU start to feel mistreated and under-appreciated. That is when YOU feel the time in the only life you'll live is being WASTED on a delusion. And that is when it is time to snap out of the delusion and, as someone above said, take the person at face value. That is when it is time to jot down the timeline and actions, come to a conclusion using common sense and TRUST that conclusion, using it as a tool to FREE yourself of the delusion.
It's a tough one. So many people go through it. I'm going through it now but I've got a new saying for this kind of thing. There's innocent until proven guilty and then there's a delusion until proven otherwise. And the PROOF is not in the resurfacing of some deceptively "positive" action you've seen enough times to know that it is merely part of an unwanted cycle you've allowed yourself to fall into before. You know what constitutes that proof according to your standards and hopes. So, until you see the proof, POOF! He ain't gotta go home (meaning you don't have to be bitter or angry or even unfriendly), but he's gotta get the hell out of here (no more dreams of love couple, no more priority in YOUR precious life).
And this goes for men, too. I understand what cadence means, but ladies... be VERY careful about making yourselves TOO unavailable in thinking this is how you keep a man interested. Balance is important. If you are dealing with a man who is genuinely interested and has a healthy dose of self-esteem, being more unavailable than available will be taken as a sign of disinterest by him. This is where I am, and slowly but surely I am giving up on the idea of being 1/2 of a love couple to the person who's this way with me. I used to have this weird notion (even posted about it here) that I needed to be able to endure this to prove that I am capable of an everlasting love partnership. Huh. Another delusion!
Folks, we all have one life to live. Be caring but don't make yourselves miserable trying to please someone else. When it gets to that point, you need to check yourself.
Last edited by mottled dove; 05-02-2012 at 04:37 AM.
Actions speak louder than words. His actions have proved over and over again that he doesn't care about you. He cares about himself and leading you along. You only feed his ego, stop allowing yourself to do this!
__________________
"There's a big difference in playing the victim than in causing your own personal drama." -BK
Thank you again for the responses! I do see a lot of what has been said. I know that this must be my limit with him. I've given him too many chances. I will still say that I do believe he was interested. At the same time as I think he was interested, I was filling his ego. My emotions have been all over the place. One minute I feel strong as if to say "screw him.". The next I feel miserable and foolish for thinking it could've been different. I think me not responding to him was a positive thing because I could've and we just would've went in circles. This has caused a little setback with my depression. I just feel down. I have so many things to be grateful for but this has been a bump in the road. Time will help I know. I just feel really alone right now. I want to meet new people but feel clueless as to how. Ur tried online dating, speed dating. Not for me. Maybe I put too much pressure on that part of my life. I'm starting a photography class in June. I'm looking forward to that. This sounds so mean...I'm happy for the happiness of others but don't want to hear it at the same time. I feel bitter and I hate that feeling of bitterness and jealousy. I've been keeping to myself which isn't good. I can't wait until this is behind me. Any suggestions for that?
Thank you again for the responses! I do see a lot of what has been said. I know that this must be my limit with him. I've given him too many chances. I will still say that I do believe he was interested. At the same time as I think he was interested, I was filling his ego. My emotions have been all over the place. One minute I feel strong as if to say "screw him.". The next I feel miserable and foolish for thinking it could've been different. I think me not responding to him was a positive thing because I could've and we just would've went in circles. This has caused a little setback with my depression. I just feel down. I have so many things to be grateful for but this has been a bump in the road. Time will help I know. I just feel really alone right now. I want to meet new people but feel clueless as to how. Ur tried online dating, speed dating. Not for me. Maybe I put too much pressure on that part of my life. I'm starting a photography class in June. I'm looking forward to that. This sounds so mean...I'm happy for the happiness of others but don't want to hear it at the same time. I feel bitter and I hate that feeling of bitterness and jealousy. I've been keeping to myself which isn't good. I can't wait until this is behind me. Any suggestions for that?
Along with being honest with yourself, you should allow yourself to be gentle with yourself - you're going through an emotional upset and you are allowed to feel all these emotions. I would really hunt for an outlet for the bitterness and anger. Even if it means writing furiously and angrily letters, or painting with red paint or tearing up a sheet. .... do it and do it furiously, then pointedly and deliberately throw out or get rid of the result, so that it's OUT of your life and you aren't reminded of it.
As for meeting people and friends, I would de-emphasize the romantic aspect of your life and concentrate on building your friend base up so that you have a support network and people who will tell you honestly when you're being silly and happily cheer for you when you're doing well.
The photography class sounds good, though I would also start looking at your co-workers - if there's any you like, maybe slowly start trying to build friendships, or if there's family you're closer to and/or like, strengthen and reinforce the bond. Volunteering is a great way to meet people as well, or finding the online community for whatever hobbies or interests you have (for you, I'd go check out photography forums! I've met TONS of people on art websites who I'm now friends with, simply because we started out talking shop and eventually moved on to other subjects over the course of months)
Thank you Linnia! I have close friends, both inside and outside work but, this week, I've kept my distance from most people, because of my mood. I feel like I don't belong anywhere. Most of my friends are married with kids. I still feel so very bitter. I feel like I took 20 steps back. I can't shake him from my mind. One minute I feel empowered to move forward. But that quickly fades to sadness. I went to therapy Thursday. Part of me knows, him doing this, was a blessing in disguise. Yet I can't get rid of that feeling that I see through his actions and that he doesn't feel how he acted. Yet another part of me knows I deserve better and regardless of if he meant or didn't mean what he did/said, I need to move forward. I feel all over the place with my thinking and emotions. I definitely put emphasis on romance when I know I shouldn't. At the age of 34, the bar scene only happens randomly (it's so old and who will I meet there). I've done online dating and speed dating. Just found it wasn't for me. My best friend is going through a divorce and it seems she's going out with every guy she comes in contact with online. I'm not a random hook up girl. I've looked into volunteering in the past; I will try that again. I'm my own worst enemy. I want to meet people and put myself out there but much of the time, fear and anxiety, keep me away. Then I'm bitter and jealous when I see others doing it. It comes down to me and I can't get out of my own way.
I can see it's essential for you to believe that he has feelings for you but is "afraid" or "can't admit it". I don't buy it. If a guy is interested in someone, and she puts out all of the signs that she is interested in him (which you have done, despite your belief that you were backing off, you contacted him first a lot of times), he doesn't back off because he's "afraid" of his feelings! He moves forward. And this guy just hasn't. If he was truly interested, he wouldn't have seen you ONE time in NINE years! He would have made much more of an effort to actually see you instead of just texting.
I have a guy friend who has made it clear he's interested in me. I've told him (in a much nicer way than this guy you're writing about did) that I am not interested in him that way. However, I consider him a good friend, so occasionally I'll text him to say hello or to comment on something I think he'd find interesting. EVERY time, he leaps on my texts and tries to turn them into something romantic or highly personal. He then starts to text and text and text! I then have to back off from contacting him, not because I'm "afraid" or because I have feelings but "can't admit" it, but because I don't want him to think I like him that way! I had to stop hanging out with him because he'd always bring up us dating or want to rub my back or something. It sucks that I can't be friendly toward him, but if I am he always takes it as a sign that I want to date him.
So maybe this guy you're writing about feels the same way...that he thinks you're a cool friend and he wouldn't mind hanging out, but then you take it to mean he's interested when he's really not. I don't agree with the way he told you, but it seems like he felt pushed to be very blunt with you because he thought you wouldn't get the message any other way.
OR...he was just bored and had nothing going on and figured he could always start talking to his old standby, you, and that would give him something to do until something else came along. If that's the case, then he's just insensitive.
Either way, it sure seems like he's not going to change his mind and decide to start dating you.
Has your therapist given you any good suggestions on how to overcome your fear and anxiety over meeting people? I guarantee if you fill your time, not only will you be too busy to mope over this guy, but you'll meet lots of great people. And you might even have fun!
I have a guy friend who has made it clear he's interested in me. I've told him (in a much nicer way than this guy you're writing about did) that I am not interested in him that way. However, I consider him a good friend, so occasionally I'll text him to say hello or to comment on something I think he'd find interesting. EVERY time, he leaps on my texts and tries to turn them into something romantic or highly personal. He then starts to text and text and text! I then have to back off from contacting him, not because I'm "afraid" or because I have feelings but "can't admit" it, but because I don't want him to think I like him that way! I had to stop hanging out with him because he'd always bring up us dating or want to rub my back or something. It sucks that I can't be friendly toward him, but if I am he always takes it as a sign that I want to date him.
Not to derail the thread but I'm just curious. What was that "nicer" way of telling him you weren't interested? The nicest way a woman can tell a man that she's not interested is to say to him emphatically something akin to "I like you as a friend but I wouldn't be interested in you as a romantic partner." If a man refers to an outing with you as a date, the nice way of making it clear to him that it is not a date is to say just that - this is not a date. Hanging out as friends? Sure. Date? No. I once told a lady friend with no shame the first time I agreed to meet with her for an outing that it wasn't a date. I still treated her but she KNEW what I meant when I said it wasn't a date and that we'd just be hanging out. From that day onward, she has displayed NO misunderstandings about my level of interest in her, unlike your guy.
Maybe you haven't made it clear enough to him? And if that's the case, I feel sorry for the guy. Maybe I'm working with a dusty and worn out book. Nevertheless, in my book, good men and women don't fish around. Even with that uncertainty about someone's level of interest in us or potential interest, there's a sort of pre-commitment that good, sincere people put themselves up to when pursuing someone they're interested in coupling with. So with that in mind, I feel I'd be doing a horrible thing by not freeing someone of that pre-commitment, knowing I will not even GROW to have interest in them that way.
I have to be honest CadenceA; I find your last post a little harsh. You don't have to "buy" anything. I don't think my situation and your situation are the same at all. You didn't take him out on a date, that you set up, call it a date, and kiss at the end of the night and say you wanted date 2. Sending pictures of flowers to my phone, making the plans to go out, going for dinner, golf, and coffee when he had chances to leave, kissing and saying it was a welcoming surprise, calling it a date all night, agreeing to date number 2. I didn't force any of that. Part of it is a game for him, but another part is we have two completely different lifestyles. He isn't willing to leave his world of partying and whatnot. And I wouldn't fit in that world, if I tried, which I never did. I have to focus on the fact that, regardless if he meant them or not, his words were hurtful and I deserve better. I did nothing but reach out to him last week. I don't deserve to be cut off and had the right to call him out on it; I didn't "push" him to respond in his blunt manner. He's a coward! It's been really hard emotionally because of the feelings I've attached to him. As I said, one minute I feel empowered. The next I'm sad. I want to give myself time but not too much because I don't want to fall into a pattern of just sitting home and being sad. My self-esteem and confidence have taken a blow so now I'm afraid to do anything. I spent this weekend at home. My body was just exhausted. I need to find me again.
I thought you might not like what I had to say. It's happened to me before, when I was waffling on something important or was complaining about something but wasn't doing anything to change the way I dealt with it. And people were harsh with me because they felt I wasn't "getting it", that I was self-sabotaging. But we don't know each other, so I apologize for being presumptuous.
But I still feel this guy was being insensitive because he was saying things that led you to believe he wanted to date you, then he backed off and changed his mind, and that's not a nice way to treat people. I don't think he's motivated by fear, but by a complete lack of regard for the feelings of others.
I think if you allow this to continue it will mean more of the same, as history with him has shown. I think giving him another chance wouldn't be a good idea at all, because it will mean feeling like you do right now again and again and again. No one would want that! So you not responding and stopping contact was the right way to go IMO.
Does your therapist have any good suggestions on how to work on overcoming your fear and anxiety over meeting new people?
I don't feel Cadence was being harsh, but just being honest. After all, your title is that we were "all right." We are still lending the same advice. I agree that when a guy truly likes a girl, he will almost stop at nothing to try to be with her. Men seem to know what they want when they find it.
As for your self esteem, I have been there. The guys I dated who were wishy-washy wrecked havoc on my self esteem. I felt like there was something wrong with ME because they didn't like me like I wanted them to. It really is an awful feeling, and one that you can control.
When I met my husband, there was no doubt how he felt about me. Other guys weren't like that. From then on, I knew what it was like to feel real love from a guy who truly was "into" me. There were no guessing games, moments when I wondered if he really liked me, etc. It was so different from the other guys.
The book "He's Just Not that Into You" (written by a man) is really great for women in these type of unsure relationships with men. It is also a movie. It really does a great job of reading both men and women. It talks about the difference between a guy who just doesn't want to commit vs. a guy who just doesn't want to commit to YOU. Sometimes we need our eyes opened.
__________________
"There's a big difference in playing the victim than in causing your own personal drama." -BK
Not to derail the thread but I'm just curious. What was that "nicer" way of telling him you weren't interested?
...Maybe you haven't made it clear enough to him?
I said "'X', you are a good friend, but I care about you as I would a brother. We've known each other long enough for me to know that isn't going to change. I'd like for us to stay friends, but I'm not going to date you."
I think that was pretty clear. He did react by acting hurt, but I don't think there was any way to say it that wouldn't be hurtful or embarrassing. However, there was no need for me to be mean about it.
Sometimes people say things they don't mean for one reason or another. I have an ex who comes on to every.single.female he meets. EVERY one. He collects their phone numbers and then afterward says "I'm never going to call her!" He does it because he thinks it's funny plus it makes him feel like the big stud who women can't resist (gag).
It might be hard for someone who deals with people honestly to understand that some people play games and lie. Because THEY never would, they can't fathom ever treating someone like that. But sadly, there are some not nice people in the world. Best thing to do is avoid them because all they bring is hurt and disappointment.
Relationships, as far as I have learnt should be easy. It will of course have its ups and downs, but the downs should never reach the bottom where insults, or "not caring" attitude starts..
I think you should make a choice to not allow your self to be contactable by him. All this time your spending with him could be spent with someone who actually wants to flirt with you as you said, and just be with you because he wants to.
