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Old 07-17-2012, 10:17 PM   #1
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relationship issues, torn abt ending it

Hi all,

I wasn't sure what title to put that would accurately capture everything that I'm struggling with. I've been hesitant to reach out to anyone because it's complex and only I can know the actual reality and make the ultimate decision. But... it doesn't hurt to see if others have gone through something similar or could offer an outside view of the situation.

I've been with my fiance for almost 6 years. So much has transpired between us, but we've kept struggling through it and moving past it. When we first met, we were both in a really low state (me just ending a difficult, dead relationship and feeling very torn up about it, naive about life in general, and him just having lost his father traumatically). He has amazing street smarts and clear, accurate long-term vision, so he saw me as a lost soul and stepped in to help me. He was hard on me from the beginning, and I felt as though I had been slapped awake for the first time in my life. I also began to feel a lot of confusion about myself and believed him fully for what he said about me - but I felt as though all I knew and perceived inside was completely opposite of what he said. I felt lost in the dark even as he was guiding me out of it to a better place. I believe (throughout everything) that he is a very good person and deeply desires to help others and is usually right. But I think I got lost in it all and my inner voice was harshly silenced and repressed.

So that's how we started off. He pushed me into sex really fast, and I was very resistant for religious reasons, but I didn't want him to be unhappy with me, and I didn't want him to cheat on me (which he was), so finally I gave in. It was my first real experience and I didn't know how to do anything (took him a long time to believe that I was telling the truth about that), so sex sucked for a long time. Finally after a year and a half, I just gave in mentally and it got better. He still wasn't happy with me and criticized me a lot, and was still cheating on me occasionally. I knew it in my gut but felt it was my fault, and I knew it was only for sex, so I just tried to keep doing what he wanted. I even developed a slight eating disorder because in my mind, the only way of making myself more attractive was to be skinnier and look more like the wild party girls he was attracted to.

We eventually moved in together, and things got a little more stable... for a brief period of time. Throughout all this time, he was always advising me and I was trying desperately to follow his suggestions. Whenever I couldn't execute it exactly, I would feel devastated and he would criticize me endlessly til I was completely broken (already nearly was from the beating I already gave myself first).

Well... I ended up having an emotional affair with someone. I didn't intend to (but who does?)... but he was nice enough and seemed to recognize and value my good qualities. My fiance caught me early on though and put an immediate stop to it, and made me write a harsh email to the other guy with him dictating each word to him - then made me block him. It was a disaster for a few days and I thought he was going to leave me, which felt like the end of the world. I begged and pleaded and finally he decided to stay with me. I felt like the worst human being on the planet.

And then of all horrors, I found myself in the same situation - two more times. I stupidly stumbled into them and couldn't stop myself because it just felt so good to have someone appreciate me and value me (although at the time, I didn't know that was why). Each time he did the same thing with me... except by the third time, I wished I had never been born, and felt I didn't deserve the life given to me. Because of my belief in God, I would never seriously consider suicide, even though it crossed my mind. But I knew to stay in this life was the worst punishment that I deserved. In the midst of those two other times, he ended up raping me a couple of times, and slapped me when I started crying. At that point, I felt something inside me go cold, and like there was a big hole inside me. I tried to tell him some time afterward how I felt, but he didn't believe me and thought I was being dramatic. He did apologize profusely for what he did, but didn't understand that I couldn't just bounce back.

Things moved into a more placid state... I had intentionally closed off myself to all ports of entry for any males and kept myself very isolated from others in general. He doesn't like my family at all (yes they have a lot of issues), so I had long lost any real connection with them. I had moved to be with him, so I didn't really have any friends either... and didn't have the energy to really look for any at that point. Even though things were smooth, any time I made a small mistake, he would always bring everything back from my cheating and how I tried to hide it from him and how deceptive I was. I continued to try harder with sex, and eventually he stopped complaining and I thought maybe I was doing better (but he just recently said it was still awful but he just sucked it up. And looking back reflectively now, I think he was feeling how emotionally shut down I have been all this time).

Well now, 2 years after the last incident, it happened again, with someone I've known for more than a year, and who had apparently already liked me for a long time. My fiance and I have been separated now for several months due to work. I tried to resist it, but the other guy is completely amazing. He sees me for who I truly am, and accepts and LOVES all of me... (my fiance sees me I guess, but focuses on changing the bad parts and dismisses the rest). The things that my fiance hates, he thinks are cute. I don't have to explain myself or defend myself - he just gets me from the very beginning, sometimes without me saying a word. He is an incredible person, and I admire so many things about him. The first time he mentioned in passing that I was sweet, I struggled to keep from breaking down in tears. Me?? My fiance knew I was meeting with the other guy (I was helping him with a class in exchange for language help) at the university. He was fine with us meeting, but wanted me to follow a very specific plan when I met him. It was really hard and no matter what I did, it seemed something was always wrong. With the combination of me not following exactly and my fiance also feeling the growing connection, he exploded several times and I was on the phone for hours and hours listening to his insults and criticisms. Finally he ended it with me, saying he hated me and that I was a liar, *****, ****, ugly (everything imaginable) and swore that he would destroy me publicly (which shocked me a lot because yes he would destroy me in private regularly, but never ever in public). I was devastated and panicking and shaking and couldn't think straight; he has all my passwords and remote access to my computer... I had no idea what he might do. I thought I should beg him and apologize and do whatever he wanted... but I was paralyzed. So I decided to do nothing for a day. And then after a lot of tears, I sent him an email saying I accepted it and the best thing for me to fix everything was to release him to be with someone who could really make him happy. I felt good and relieved after I sent it... sad, but so much lighter.

He responded in shock and anger, and couldn't believe I'd done that and was so hurt and that he never meant any of what he said before, and how could I be so cold to not talk to him for an entire day after I messed up really bad... I tried to explain that what he said was really hurtful and scared me, and he should never say those things if he didn't mean them... he said I should know better by now that he never means it when he calls me those things (which is regularly actually). He also said that he had tried to commit suicide after reading my email, the combination of work, family issues and issues with me were too much to bear. That ripped my heart out because he's always soooo strong and would never do such a thing... (and would never lie about it).

Anymore, more hours and hours of drama, missed work, missed meals, missed sleep... and the power balance has shifted and he was begging me to come back. I hesitated and told him I had to think about it. He was upset and hurt, but I have to be honest. I can't keep lying to myself and him that everything is great. Since we've been separated, I've begun seeing some value in myself and realizing that maybe I don't really deserve all this treatment after all... and maybe my huge mistakes were a result of all the issues in the relationship. Yes, I was wrong, but I think my real mistake was not valuing and loving myself enough to be brave and face the problems and speak up.

He had also asked me to cut all contact with the other guy, which I did (and it BROKE my heart and it broke his too... this time is not like the other times at all... the connection we have extends to a spiritual level... this has been one of the hardest things to do). But also I think it's better if I do that for now so I can focus on my relationship. The other guy is gone for the summer anyway, so I'm here by myself through all of this (which has been valuable, I think). He also instructed me to not talk to anyone about all of this... but I broke the rule and talked to a therapist (wish I could see her more but I don't have the money). He was upset about that and said that they always take the woman's side and tell them to leave the relationship.

Anyway, a few days ago, I finally gave him my answer - which was again to end it. I just felt there was too much between us and it was better to move on, and I would always love him and always want to remain connected with him, but couldn't keep going in the romantic role. I recognize that he did SO much for me, and helped me and guided me... but the most recent things, combined with everything else built up over time, really pushed me over the edge. He was completely against it and was begging me again.... more missed work, missed sleep... he said it was only fair to give him a chance to address all the issues I'd brought up and he swore he would work hard to be different and change everything, and he loved me and we were soul mates and I was the only one who could ever understand him, etc. So... I tacitly agreed to keep going.

Things are coming to a head very fast as far as announcing our engagement and moving ahead with marriage (he's from a different country so we were waiting on various permissions and paperwork and for him to get established in his job). I feel like now I have a brief moment in time to re-evaluate everything before all this comes to pass. I also believe that if I'm going to move forward, I need to be 100% resolute and on board, no looking back and feeling uncertain.

He of course feels my hesitancy and says that if all the other issues have been addressed, then my hesitancy must come from something else (basically, hinting that I have strong feelings for the other guy - which I do. But I would never walk away from one relationship for someone else... that's an awful, horrible thing to do). My fiance has said that he will ask God for His justice on me if I walk away and that is the real reason. He also said that he thinks I'm brainwashed and am just repeating whatever someone else told me to say (no?! this is all from me...!)

My hesitancy comes from the fact that I just feel SO DEAD inside at this point. I'm glad he wants to fix everything and change... but I should feel happy... and I don't. I feel nothing. I think honestly if I didn't experience how amazing it could be with someone else, I would give in and just go back to my fiance, and continue to ignore my feelings. If he does truly change... maybe my feelings will come back someday... i love him deeply, but I don't feel joy or excitement or light happiness when we talk... just anxiety, fear sometimes, defensiveness... I stopped feeling attracted to him a long time ago, but I admire his brilliance, strength, and incredible insight, so I always felt that was enough to compensate for it. Certainly he is much more attracted to me.

I apologize for the length, but it's complex, as I stated in the beginning. There is much more to be said; I know I'm biasing the situation by focusing mostly on the problems instead of all the good things between us as well. Anyway, thanks for reading; it's much appreciated.

 
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:22 AM   #2
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

My goodness!! This monster has killed off most of your spirit; but by a miracle of strength on your part you have saved a little bit of the courageous you. Please leave him now! He will never willingly let you go now that he has trained you to this point, but you must be brave and leave. Get help to do this, find somewhere safe to go and refuse to have any contact with him. His program of control is textbook in its skill...charm, make dependent, isolate, criticise, reward, gaslight (look it up). For your own emotional survival you must get away. Of course therecwere good times, or you would have left already, but you are having to dance faster and faster to get the good times. This will be your life forever if you stay with him. Sera

 
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:42 AM   #3
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonlitdreams View Post
He has amazing street smarts and clear, accurate long-term vision, so he saw me as a lost soul and stepped in to help me. He was hard on me from the beginning, and I felt as though I had been slapped awake for the first time in my life. I also began to feel a lot of confusion about myself and believed him fully for what he said about me - but I felt as though all I knew and perceived inside was completely opposite of what he said. I felt lost in the dark even as he was guiding me out of it to a better place. I believe (throughout everything) that he is a very good person and deeply desires to help others and is usually right. But I think I got lost in it all and my inner voice was harshly silenced and repressed.
i find it ironic that he says your being brainwashed...he's the one who has been brainwashing you, and gaslighting you. Gaslighting is when they get you to doubt your own perception of reality. There's even a book called the gaslight effect.... he's an abuser and he's got you believing he's some kind of savior.....and those amazing street smarts you speak of is his ability to zone in on someone who is vulnerable.
he saw you as a lost soul and someone he could easily manipulate.
I agree with sera, he is a textbook controller
your gut instinct is telling you this isn't right.....please listen to it.

 
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:48 AM   #4
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

This guy is nothing but a manipulator, a snake, an abuser, and a rapist. And a lot of other words that can't be written here, too. He is a terrible, vile, miserable person who will only continue controlling you, abusing you, and making your life hell if you marry him. He has not changed and he never will, he is all of the above and more, and that's WHO he is!! This is your chance to stop all of this and get away for good, before it's too late and you end up married to this psychopath. You need to make the move now, before it's too late. You already saw what being with a normal and caring loving person can be like, and you know what it's like with your fiance, all of the pain and misery and sadness that goes along with that. The choice is very clear, now you really need to get after it and take action before it's too late.

 
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:00 AM   #5
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

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Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
My goodness!! This monster has killed off most of your spirit; but by a miracle of strength on your part you have saved a little bit of the courageous you. Please leave him now! He will never willingly let you go now that he has trained you to this point, but you must be brave and leave. Get help to do this, find somewhere safe to go and refuse to have any contact with him. His program of control is textbook in its skill...charm, make dependent, isolate, criticise, reward, gaslight (look it up). For your own emotional survival you must get away. Of course therecwere good times, or you would have left already, but you are having to dance faster and faster to get the good times. This will be your life forever if you stay with him. Sera
Hi Seraph, rosequartz, and kszan,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses. Honestly, I think these months apart have been the key to me finding myself again... getting (unsolicited) positive feedback from others around me, working through various situations and issues in my life with my own analyses and way of handling and executing it - and finding success... My inner voice has been steadily coming back (and much stronger than ever before as I've always had self-esteem issues and often ignored my intuition). So the time apart has been very valuable.

Seraph, I think you may be right that he will never let me go... I have been really stunned and shocked that he's fighting so hard now because all this time I've thought our relationship hung by a thread and he was only staying for my sake. I guess that's a big part of my struggle now is that I want him to AGREE with me about all this.

I was looking up information online about emotional and verbal abuse recently, and it suddenly hit me that all this was familiar... I'd actually looked it up a few years back when the first major incident occurred - and have since completely forgotten about it.

Street smarts = picking up others' vulnerabilities.... well yes. He's very adept at that. I always attributed that to a difficult childhood causing him to not trust anyone and not wanting to get hurt - so he picks up on people's weaknesses and faults immediately so he can protect himself and act proactively.

Interesting point about brainwashing. I would never allow anyone to outright brainwash me, but with him, his reasoning and evidence is very convincing. I have often thought that he is not always correct about underlying intentions though. He can take something innocent and turns it into a horrific, calculated act. We had a huge fight just before he broke up with me (and by we I mean he because I don't usually fight back) about when I asked if I could talk to him later since it was 3 am and I hadn't eaten yet, and I'd be stuck with him for hours since our phone conversations take a great deal of time. He immediately fixated on my choice of words (stuck with him), which I didn't mean in a bad way, I hadn't planned out what I wanted to say - those were the words in my head and I said them, just to state a fact that talking to him requires a lot of time. He eventually hung up on me. But at that point, I was cognizant enough to recognize that I did NOT mean that to hurt him or insult him, so I actually didn't believe I was mistaken (and didn't text him asking him to forgive me and trying to convince him I didn't mean it). However, he usually uses these types of real examples and twists the intention. I think this was the major reason why I began feeling so disoriented and lost in the beginning of our relationship. I saw myself as a well-meaning person, not an intentional, manipulative, hurtful person trying to use others for my own evil purposes.

And he's not like that all the time. I have observed that we go in cycles of peace and stability to terror. Back and forth in extremes. And the negative extreme is always triggered by something I did. So I've just thought that if I were a better person and weren't making so many mistakes, our relationship would be really great. But of course, I know this is the normal cycle of abuse. Otherwise, no one would ever stay in such a relationship. They endure the pain with the memories of those great times in their heads.

I find myself wanting to give more explanations and examples, but I think all of you are solidly convinced. I realize I'm just writing all this out to help convince myself. And I was convinced... until he said he would change and said some other things that have me feeling that sickening, disoriented feeling again. Maybe I'm the really bad one, and maybe it's not so bad, and the really serious things like rape and forced sex were 2 years ago, and I don't think he'll do it again... so now I'm back in a state of limbo.

One of the last things the other guy said to me before I cut contact with him was that he really hoped that whatever direction I choose to go in my life, that I find stability (and happiness). It hit me like a ton of bricks. Dear God, how I really long for that.

(by the way, Rosequartz: I recently discovered rose quartz and have been wearing a rose quartz bracelet for the past couple of months now and find it brings a lot of strength, comfort, and love. Wearing it always makes me remember to calm down and approach everything with positive energy and love. So it's absolutely my favorite crystal).

Last edited by moonlitdreams; 07-18-2012 at 10:09 AM.

 
Old 07-18-2012, 10:20 AM   #6
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

wow, as an aside: after leaving my reply, I went back to the relationship board and immediately noticed that the views on my thread were 222. :O

Numbers have been showing up and getting my attention lately (I never gave that kind of thing a second thought my entire life).... 222 has shown up a couple times when talking with my fiance... and just now in relation to my thread. The supposed meaning of 222:

"Listen to your heart, it will guide you on the path of truth... 222 is the symbol of new beginnings, the next step in the ladder..."

"Divine life purpose, soul mission..." angel involvement, rebirth, transformation, change, flexibility...

 
Old 07-18-2012, 08:40 PM   #7
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

Hey all, I can see a lot of people are reading the thread - I'd greatly appreciate it if you could give your thoughts too. I'm really struggling. I hear you all and agree, but then I come back to thinking I should give him a chance to change. Just feeling lost.

He sent me flowers today, and was being really nice, calling me nice things, and promising to take me on a vacation (one I'd always talked about) sometime soon. He's never done any of that ever before. But I just felt so dead, and was forcing myself to reciprocate and be enthusiastic about it. It just didn't feel real. I was almost wishing we could go back to dealing with each other in our usual platonic way.

 
Old 07-18-2012, 11:12 PM   #8
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

He is using "Plan B" since bullying you did not bring you to heel. I would not fall for it. Nobody changes that much, he just wants you back under his control. Sera

 
Old 07-19-2012, 05:37 AM   #9
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

He doesn't miss you or the lovey relationship at all. The only thing he misses is having you constantly under his thumb so he can continue to control and manipulate you and make you do his bidding, whatever it may be. He already knows there are not many women out there who would volunteer to be abused and raped by this snake, so he knows his only option is to try getting you back so he can be in charge of you again. You need to stop seeing him as a "great guy" who "just made some mistakes" because that's NOT who he is. The guy will keep controlling you and abusing you forever if you let him, that's a 100% fact. Stop letting him back into your life to poison and brainwash you all over again. If you go back, you're going to start dying inside again and within a month you'll be back in that dark place again with no way out. I strongly and firmly suggest you stay away from him and have zero contact with him anymore. You shouldn't be talking to him anyway, you're broken up! Stop letting him back in to get under your skin because that will be your downfall. Zero contact, block him from every form of contact and never speak to him again.

 
Old 07-19-2012, 06:57 AM   #10
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonlitdreams View Post
(by the way, Rosequartz: I recently discovered rose quartz and have been wearing a rose quartz bracelet for the past couple of months now and find it brings a lot of strength, comfort, and love. Wearing it always makes me remember to calm down and approach everything with positive energy and love. So it's absolutely my favorite crystal).
good for you! you might also want to get yourself a black tourmaline bracelet, or carry a stone of it in your pocket. It repels negativity and sends it back to the source! A great stone to have around!
i'm wondering if this guy is either bi-polar or BPD (borderline personality disorder). you won't get him to agree.....your best bet is to make the right choice for you and move forward without him. he's not going to change and he's dangerous, he's already affected you in a negative way......

 
Old 07-20-2012, 10:03 AM   #11
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Re: relationship issues, torn abt ending it

Thanks for the responses; I appreciate your thoughts and candid suggestions. I don't think he is bipolar. I also never thought he was that either because he doesn't quite fit all the characteristics - i.e. he doesn't lie - he's usually extremely honest (although he does stretch things when he's telling a story to make it more interesting).

For anyone else experiencing a similar situation (in an abusive, confusing relationship), you may want to check out author and researcher Sam Vaknin's videos on narcissism; they are well-researched and extremely insightful. I nearly broke down after watching and reading (on his website) his explanation of how one becomes a narcissist (abuse and trauma as a child can cause the child to adapt a 'false self' to prevent further harm to their true self, which becomes fragmented and damaged and underdeveloped, all carefully guarded via a shield of fierce protection). So true. And when a narcissist is faced with a serious life crisis (loss of source - i.e. a partner, family member, job, friend, etc.), they often become more acutely self-aware and genuinely want to change and leave that life behind... only to adopt it again once things stabilize.

Also interesting was Sam Vaknin's observations on a narcissist's sexual behavior: they either disdain it and feel themselves to be above it, or they dive into it as an active form of energy source and can become addicted to it (definitely the case in my situation). The partner is merely an object.

Back to my situation: I'm going next week to see a therapist. I'm realizing that this is an extremely complex, thoroughly enmeshed situation, and I need some professional help unraveling it all. Certainly I have things to work through from being codependent, submissive, having a complete lack of self-esteem... and seeing how that ties in to and feeds his issues. Sam Vaknin also has an interesting discussion regarding the partners of narcissists (DEFINITELY saw myself in his description). It's not so easy to just walk out; it needs some untangling. And I'd like to get more input/confirmation as to whether he's a narcissist, if there is truly any hope of change or not - if he is a narcissist, then I'd certainly better get out.

Rosequartz - THANK YOU for your suggestion of tourmaline! You have no idea how much I need that right now. I didn't want to mention it because it brings up another huge level of complexity, but I've seen and long felt negative entities around him that have attacked me a few times (one time just a few days ago). So I definitely, definitely will take you up on your suggestion. That is extremely helpful.

Last edited by Administrator; 07-20-2012 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Please don't post unapproved website links, or recommend Internet searches, per Posting Policy. Thanks.

 
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