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Old 12-11-2012, 10:52 AM   #16
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Re: Simple Questions? Or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosequartz View Post
i agree with you that she is being insensitive.....
now, is this something you've noticed in all the time you've known her? her insensitivity? have you noticed it with other people, not just yourself? I'm wondering if she's just "that way", and the world revolves around her and she doesn't really concern herself about things that don't "affect her" (not that your feelings shouldn't affect her, they should!). I'm thinking she's not as great as you would like her to be......could it be you've put her on a pedestal because so far she doesn't seem to have a lot of integrity......went thru with a marriage that she didn't mean......now with someone else (you)and she's not that concerned with this current partners feelings either......
could she be a narcissiisst? I'd rethink this if I were you, take a step back and try to look at it from a distance and get a little perspective.
Thanks for the input, Rose.

Basically, no, I have not put her on a pedestal at all. She's not perfect, not by a long shot. But I love her, and I'm quite confident in that love because her flaws don't change my feelings about her at all. Loving someone, I think, requires that you don't merely accept someone's imperfections, but that you love them FOR their imperfections because that is a part of who they are. (And, of course, you should equally love them for all the good things about them, too.)

I think she has difficulty managing her own emotions and being truly compassionate about those of people she cares about. Yes, she's insensitive, but that insensitivity stems results from a kind of desperation about handling her own feelings. For example, she was terribly frightened to call off a wedding she didn't want, so instead of confronting and owning up to those feelings, she made things worse by trying to ignore them. Now, she is deeply ashamed of what she did, so she refuses to make sense of it or find a way to put it into some kind of context that is, at least, close to the truth.

I guess, then, what I'm asking about is if it's possible for someone to improve on this kind of thing. I don't think her strategies have been very healthy for her so far, and I'm not sure how long I can stay in this when her actions, past and present, cause me so much pain. But, like I said, I really, really love this person.

Last edited by sportivetricks; 12-11-2012 at 10:54 AM.

 
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:16 AM   #17
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Re: Simple Questions? Or not.

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Originally Posted by sportivetricks View Post
. I'm not sure how long I can stay in this when her actions, past and present, cause me so much pain.
That might be your answer right there. Loving someone is great but it's not enough to sustain a relationship long term when there are already doubts about the future of that relationship due to past issues.

Additionally, you've identified that she has issues with how to work through her issues in a healthy way. That's a real problem that could potentially cause a lot of problems in your relationship down the road. These are the kinds of things you need to look for before getting married. How do they handle arguments, are they able to have open communication about things to resolve it, do they have any problems with passive aggressive or overly aggressive behavior, can they admit when they are wrong and learn from those mistakes. Etc. there's a long list of things that should be considered before you decide to marry someone. And if that person isn't able to fulfill those requirements then don't waste your time. Spinning your wheels when you're not married is one thing cause you can walk away anytime. But after you get married it's a lot more frustrating and a lot less flexible if the problems you're having now don't get resolved first.

 
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #18
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Re: Simple Questions? Or not.

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Originally Posted by AllandNothing View Post
So I get it now. You told her you felt the same and she choose to go on with the marriage. That makes a big difference to me. You see, if I told someone I loved him and he just said "thanks" -- you know, blew it off, I certainly would not change my marriage plans. But knowing she loved you and you loved her and her going on with the wedding does show a level of immaturity.

You have the right to talk this out with her. I'd suggest you make sure you have your thoughts together because it will almost have to be a once and done conversation. Clearly you need closure on this subject or you can't go forward with her. It is odd to me that she seems to be sort of stuck in this past, but it was a big mistake and sometimes those are hard to get over. They can be even harder to get over when you knew going in it was wrong. She might be concerned that history is going to repeat, questioning herself. She needs to tell you. If you can get her to open up and have a gentle, reasoned conversation, it might help her out a lot too.

And finally, AllandNothing, my response to your wise words.

Yes, her actions in the past showed immaturity and even a kind of recklessness. Trust me, I am NOT making excuses for her, but I am pretty sure she was feeling a lot of passive-pressure from her family to "settle down." I do know that she had been actively chastised for having overly "romantic" or "idealistic" versions of who she was hoping to find, and she was told, outright, that she should have married someone she decided to break up with. I'm pretty sure that the thing she found most attractive about the next guy was that he said he never wanted a marriage and that he never wanted children. Maybe she didn't consciously plan it out, but it must have felt comforting that he wasn't going to expose her to more admonishment (direct or indirect) from her family. Of course, it didn't work out that way. There are some other factors in this, once again no excuses, TERRIBLE decision on her part, but I don't want to give the whole story. Basically, I think she felt pressured and she felt like there was no escape that wouldn't lead to pain and disappointment. Again, bad decision.

Yes, I have to talk this out with her. I'm not sure that a one-and-done will do, though. I'm hoping that we can have an adult conversation, but it's really more about correcting and keeping corrected a few core problems that are here in our present relationship. The one I've already mentioned here is how she continues to insist upon a lie that she told years ago. I'm sorry, and I'll probably get criticized on here for saying so, but I need for her to distinguish between the past marriage (which she says was "not real") and the future marriage I hope to have with her (which I hope she'll see as real). I'm not sure what shape or form that will take, but if I have children with her one day and they ask me about Mom's past . . . I want to be able to tell them the truth: that she got married because she felt pressure to do so and that she learned something from that mistake.

Other than that, I just want her to learn how to manage her emotions. For instance, if we get engaged, and she has massive doubts, doesn't want to do it, and doesn't think it will be "real." Then I want for her to feel like she can express those doubts and fears . . . not like they are overly-dramatic liabilities to be ashamed of.

Thanks for all of the responses on here.

 
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:50 PM   #19
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Re: Simple Questions? Or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllandNothing View Post
So I get it now. You told her you felt the same and she choose to go on with the marriage. That makes a big difference to me. You see, if I told someone I loved him and he just said "thanks" -- you know, blew it off, I certainly would not change my marriage plans. But knowing she loved you and you loved her and her going on with the wedding does show a level of immaturity.

You have the right to talk this out with her. I'd suggest you make sure you have your thoughts together because it will almost have to be a once and done conversation. Clearly you need closure on this subject or you can't go forward with her. It is odd to me that she seems to be sort of stuck in this past, but it was a big mistake and sometimes those are hard to get over. They can be even harder to get over when you knew going in it was wrong. She might be concerned that history is going to repeat, questioning herself. She needs to tell you. If you can get her to open up and have a gentle, reasoned conversation, it might help her out a lot too.

And finally, AllandNothing, my response to your wise words.

Yes, her actions in the past showed immaturity and even a kind of recklessness. Trust me, I am NOT making excuses for her, but I am pretty sure she was feeling a lot of passive-pressure from her family to "settle down." I do know that she had been actively chastised for having overly "romantic" or "idealistic" versions of who she was hoping to find, and she was told, outright, that she should have married someone she decided to break up with. It's repeating something I said a post or two ago, but I'm pretty sure that the thing she found most attractive about the next guy was that he said he never wanted a marriage and that he never wanted children. Maybe she didn't consciously plan it out, but it must have felt comforting that he wasn't going to expose her to more admonishment (direct or indirect) from her family. Of course, it didn't work out that way. There are some other factors in this (once again no excuses) TERRIBLE decision on her part, but I think this is the most relevant. Basically, I think she felt pressured and she felt like there was no way to escape that wouldn't lead to pain and disappointment. She felt like she was maybe just "being crazy" and everyone had similar doubts before a wedding. Again, bad decision.

Yes, I have to talk this out with her. I'm not sure that a one-and-done will do, though. I'm hoping that we can have an adult conversation, but it's really more about correcting and keeping corrected a few core problems that are here in our present relationship. The one I've already mentioned here is how she continues to insist upon a lie that she told years ago. I'm sorry, and I'll probably get criticized on here for saying so, but I need for her to distinguish between the past marriage (which she says was "not real") and the future marriage I hope to have with her (which I hope she'll see as VERY real). I'm not sure exactly what shape or form that will take, but if I have children with her one day and they ask me about their Mom's past . . . I want to be able to tell them the truth: that she got married before me when she knew it wasn't the right person because she felt pressure to do so and that she learned something productive from that mistake.

Other than that, I just want her to learn how to manage her emotions, because I think that's really the place where she suffers from an immaturity or weakness. For instance, if we get engaged, and she has massive doubts, doesn't want to do it, and doesn't think it will be "real." Then I want for her to feel like she can express those doubts and fears . . . not like they are overly-dramatic liabilities to be ashamed of.

Thanks for all of the responses on here.

 
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